State of Speech

[Saelune]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

 

[infohippie]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

 

[Saelune]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

Not being a Nazi is all the moral high ground I need.

But forget Gandhi. Lets talk about oh, I dunno, the last time Nazis were left unchallenged. I believe it was called...the Holocaust.

15million.

My moral high ground is 15million+ bodies high.

 

[infohippie]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

Not being a Nazi is all the moral high ground I need.

But forget Gandhi. Lets talk about oh, I dunno, the last time Nazis were left unchallenged. I believe it was called...the Holocaust.

15million.

My moral high ground is 15million+ bodies high.

Because war is exactly the same thing as mob rule. No, people who take that attitude are in fact straying towards Nazidom whether they realise it or not.

 

[Saelune]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

Not being a Nazi is all the moral high ground I need.

But forget Gandhi. Lets talk about oh, I dunno, the last time Nazis were left unchallenged. I believe it was called...the Holocaust.

15million.

My moral high ground is 15million+ bodies high.

Because war is exactly the same thing as mob rule. No, people who take that attitude are in fact straying towards Nazidom whether they realise it or not.

See, I dont think people should be killed just for looking different or being a different ethnicity. Not being as bad as a Nazi should be the easiest thing, but apparently alot of people didnt know that.

 

[KissingSunlight]

snip

Did you read the trolling comments on the first page? You are dismayed that I asked we should try to have "an adult conversation".

There is a reason why I pointed out the liberal's embrace of Antifa. One is to point out while Conservatives have been traditionally hypocritical about speech. Lately, Liberals have been equally as hypocritical. With the examples that you mentioned, Conservatives continue to be hypocritical about speech.

I guess this is for you as well as for everybody else posting in this thread. The issue I want to explore is how free is our speech when it's under control of corporations. What happened to Jamele Hill can and will happen to people who are not famous. I have to follow social media rules while working for my company. I am far from being a well-known name. Yet, if I post something that my boss doesn't like I can be suspended or fired for it.

Just judging from the posts I have read so far, people have a hard time acknowledging how much power companies have over our ability to speak our minds freely. Also disappointing are people who wants to have speech be more regulated. I believe speech should be free. Even from people who posts immature comments on internet forums.

 

[Saelune]

snip

Did you read the trolling comments on the first page? You are dismayed that I asked we should try to have "an adult conversation".

There is a reason why I pointed out the liberal's embrace of Antifa. One is to point out while Conservatives have been traditionally hypocritical about speech. Lately, Liberals have been equally as hypocritical. With the examples that you mentioned, Conservatives continue to be hypocritical about speech.

I guess this is for you as well as for everybody else posting in this thread. The issue I want to explore is how free is our speech when it's under control of corporations. What happened to Jamele Hill can and will happen to people who are not famous. I have to follow social media rules while working for my company. I am far from being a well-known name. Yet, if I post something that my boss doesn't like I can be suspended or fired for it.

Just judging from the posts I have read so far, people have a hard time acknowledging how much power companies have over our ability to speak our minds freely. Also disappointing are people who wants to have speech be more regulated. I believe speech should be free. Even from people who posts immature comments on internet forums.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.948957-Why-Are-People-Against-Personal-Accountabilty-For-Individuals-Who-Behave-Badly

You should really follow your own advice.

 

[Thaluikhain]

See, I dont think people should be killed just for looking different or being a different ethnicity. Not being as bad as a Nazi should be the easiest thing, but apparently alot of people didnt know that.

To add to that, not being a Nazi is easy when the Nazis aren't in power, it'd get harder if people don't take the opportunity to not be a Nazi now and let them get stronger.

 

[DeffoNotAnAltAccount]

Free speech is mostly fine. Worry about illegal restrictions being placed upon you by corporate overlords, like Youtube taking down critical content that doesn't violate Copyright law. Worry about politicians who say that the press should be limited in what it can report. Don't work about the girl with pink and blue dreadlocks or the dude with a confederate flag t shirt. If you put your voice out there in the public space for thousands to hear you should expect to get thousands of responses if they don't like what you have to say. That isn't censorship, that is life.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

While Ghandi was old, he fell to an assassin's bullet, not the ravages of time. He may well have lived longer had that not happened.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Free speech is mostly fine. Worry about illegal restrictions being placed upon you by corporate overlords, like Youtube taking down critical content that doesn't violate Copyright law. Worry about politicians who say that the press should be limited in what it can report. Don't work about the girl with pink and blue dreadlocks or the dude with a confederate flag t shirt. If you put your voice out there in the public space for thousands to hear you should expect to get thousands of responses if they don't like what you have to say. That isn't censorship, that is life.

What's illegal about Youtube's restrictions? Think that's a bit of an exaggeration

 

[DeffoNotAnAltAccount]

Free speech is mostly fine. Worry about illegal restrictions being placed upon you by corporate overlords, like Youtube taking down critical content that doesn't violate Copyright law. Worry about politicians who say that the press should be limited in what it can report. Don't work about the girl with pink and blue dreadlocks or the dude with a confederate flag t shirt. If you put your voice out there in the public space for thousands to hear you should expect to get thousands of responses if they don't like what you have to say. That isn't censorship, that is life.

What's illegal about Youtube's restrictions? Think that's a bit of an exaggeration

Copyright law overreach is a violation of the law. You laying claim to my copyright content is such a violation.

Youtube's entire copyright process depends on the fact that people won't get engaged in lawsuits over copyright claims. Litigation is expensive. The first time somebody actually challeges a wrongful claim in court out of principle and refuses to settle Youtube will be in hot water because their process isn't in any way reasonably accurate.

Honestly if somebody wanted to do away with Youtube's overreach of copyright law the best way would be to fund somebody who has clearly, unquestionably been wronged by the process. The only way it will get better is force Youtube through consumer or legal pressure. People won't stop using Youtube so legal pressure is the only realistic avenue for change. To my knowledge the best such example would be Fox's copyright claim on a Double Dribble video that they ripped from Youtube and used in an episode of Family Guy. Link: https://kotaku.com/7-year-old-gaming-vid-briefly-pulled-from-youtube-becau-1778002951

Edit: Double Dribble is a good example because the creator of the original video and the creators of the game both have a grievance with Fox. If the case actually went to court Fox would probably just try to buy the rights to Double Dribble in the fisrt place. If some effort for this lawsuit were made one would have to buy the game's copyright and get the cooperation of the creator of the original video.

 

[Saelune]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.948957-Why-Are-People-Against-Personal-Accountabilty-For-Individuals-Who-Behave-Badly

You should really follow your own advice.

ObsidionJones, posts like these are why I pre-emptively asked for people to try to have an adult conversation.

Speaking of which, you obviously missed the part of the OP that I did ask for people to do that. To be fair, couple other people made posts that were worthy of mod's wrath, also chose to ignore that simple request. If you choose not to add anything to this discussion, I would recommend that you take your narrow, reductionist, binary worldview to another thread. All you have added to this thread was bragging about fighting Nazis by harassing people everyday on The Escapist forums. Yeah, you really are a regular Simon Wiesenthal.

Excuse me, while I focus on the posts of people who do understand the issue that I brought up.

Maybe dont throw a tantrum -every- time people disagree with you.

 

[Drathnoxis]

This didn't go how I was expecting it to. I thought we were going to have a discussion about how Free Speech solely protecting us from the government was a little weird when corporations have more control over our lives than the government does. Non-disclosure agreements in particular are an abomination.

 

[DeffoNotAnAltAccount]

Non-disclosure agreements in particular are an abomination.

Probably not the best solution but I imagine that if a sitting judge had to approve of every single NDA individually that there'd be a less lot bs buried in them.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

While Ghandi was old, he fell to an assassin's bullet, not the ravages of time. He may well have lived longer had that not happened.

Someone also murdered Martin Luther King Jr, too.
You do not lose claim to the moral high ground if you use the same tactics. If I'm getting punched in the face, and I punch that guy in the face to get him to stop punching me in the face, I still have the gosh darn moral high ground

 

[Thaluikhain]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

While Ghandi was old, he fell to an assassin's bullet, not the ravages of time. He may well have lived longer had that not happened.

Someone also murdered Martin Luther King Jr, too.
You do not lose claim to the moral high ground if you use the same tactics. If I'm getting punched in the face, and I punch that guy in the face to get him to stop punching me in the face, I still have the gosh darn moral high ground

As an aside, MLK favoured non-violence, but owned a gun for self defence for good reasons.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

While Ghandi was old, he fell to an assassin's bullet, not the ravages of time. He may well have lived longer had that not happened.

Someone also murdered Martin Luther King Jr, too.
You do not lose claim to the moral high ground if you use the same tactics. If I'm getting punched in the face, and I punch that guy in the face to get him to stop punching me in the face, I still have the gosh darn moral high ground

As an aside, MLK favoured non-violence, but owned a gun for self defence for good reasons.

True that, I'm sick of hearing this bullshit morality argument that pins an equal amount of blame on the people fighting back against actual murders, lynchings, and assaults

 

[KissingSunlight]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

While Ghandi was old, he fell to an assassin's bullet, not the ravages of time. He may well have lived longer had that not happened.

Someone also murdered Martin Luther King Jr, too.
You do not lose claim to the moral high ground if you use the same tactics. If I'm getting punched in the face, and I punch that guy in the face to get him to stop punching me in the face, I still have the gosh darn moral high ground

As an aside, MLK favoured non-violence, but owned a gun for self defence for good reasons.

True that, I'm sick of hearing this bullshit morality argument that pins an equal amount of blame on the people fighting back against actual murders, lynchings, and assaults

OK. Obviously, someone was able to successfully derail this thread. So, let's try to get it back On Topic. In case you guys forgot, it is about corporate restrictions on speech.

 

[DrownedAmmet]

Its called balance cause the government IS working to get people fired from their jobs in the US. Whether its by denying protections for LGBT people, or Trump literally calling for the NFL to fire people who do not conform to Trump.

Never heard of "Not descending to their level"? Working to get someone fired because you disagree with them is a genuinely shitty thing to do and marks everyone involved as a terrible person.

Not going to their level leaves Nazis and bigots in control of everything.

Kind of like when only bad guys kill, you end up with all the good guys dead.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster."

And I don't seem to recall Ghandi ending up dead. Until old age, that is. No, if you resort to the tactics of the bad guys you lose all claim to the moral high ground.

While Ghandi was old, he fell to an assassin's bullet, not the ravages of time. He may well have lived longer had that not happened.

Someone also murdered Martin Luther King Jr, too.
You do not lose claim to the moral high ground if you use the same tactics. If I'm getting punched in the face, and I punch that guy in the face to get him to stop punching me in the face, I still have the gosh darn moral high ground

As an aside, MLK favoured non-violence, but owned a gun for self defence for good reasons.

True that, I'm sick of hearing this bullshit morality argument that pins an equal amount of blame on the people fighting back against actual murders, lynchings, and assaults

OK. Obviously, someone was able to successfully derail this thread. So, let's try to get it back On Topic. In case you guys forgot, it is about corporate restrictions on speech.

I didnt forget, I just didn't want to let those statements stand.
But okay, let's talk about speech. It's not hypocritical to criticise corporations to punish their employees for their speech. The corporations have the right to employ whoever they want, and I have the right to call them cowards for punishing someone for calling our shitty president a white supremacist. Speech is doing great in this country because we all can say what we want, and that includes criticising other people's speech. The most hypocritical thing to me is to claim someone is attacking one's right to speech when they are attacking the speech itself
there, I solved it