Stats on console and portable gaming device ownsership

[Something Amyss]

This does remind me though, when I bought my PS4, the bloke serving me looked confusedly over at my boyfriend (while I was paying for it) and said slowly "So... this is for... you then?". Pfft. Nope.

Please tell me you bought this PS4 via use of a time machine from some 15th century market.

what the fuck would you use a gaming console for other than gaming?

The PS3 was one of the highest rated BD players for years, cost less than competitors, and had a lot of features on top. It did eventually lose steam to dedicated BD players, but at one point Sony was actually bragging about this. The PS2 was simlarly sold on its DVD capacities, and the PS1 on CD capabilities. Hell, media features were one of the reasons I ended up with a PS2 and a PS3, though I also planned on games for both consoles so I'm not exactly in the "non-gaming" market.

The PS3 is still my primary BD/DVD/Netflix device.

It's a shame we have to keep doing these studies to show women are valid gamers, even though the gate keepers of gaming will not likely believe the studies anyhow.

Well, these studies are very rarely done specifically to prove such a thing. They're usually done for purposes of marketing and basic demographic information. I doubt Pew is specifically setting out to prove women play games, for example. This sort of gender breakdown is nothing new, and definitely predates the gamer gatekeepers. Or gamers as a whole, really, as research like this dates back to before gaming was a thing (though they were likely weighted quite different).

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I like how quickly this thread went right to the whole "fake gamer girl" thing without actually calling that. Is there anything that guys get called "fake" for?

I'm not seeing it. But if you want the more universal concept outside of gaming, try "Poseur". You'll find lots of examples.

It's pretty easy to see with most posters doubting the data or suggesting that just because one owns a console, doesn't mean they use it for gaming. It's just another way of saying "fake gamer girls."

The point is that they're including things like the freaking Genesis man. They include ownership of ancient consoles that women AND men both aren't likely to be doing any gaming on so we can't rely on these numbers to then determine that these consoles are being used at all. Who knows how many consoles that their owners actually game on are out there when you sort out the ones that people own but don't play on...and I'm damn well sure one can put the Genesis (as well as most PSPs) on that pile yet those were their examples.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

It's a shame we have to keep doing these studies to show women are valid gamers, even though the gate keepers of gaming will not likely believe the studies anyhow.

Well, these studies are very rarely done specifically to prove such a thing. They're usually done for purposes of marketing and basic demographic information. I doubt Pew is specifically setting out to prove women play games, for example. This sort of gender breakdown is nothing new, and definitely predates the gamer gatekeepers. Or gamers as a whole, really, as research like this dates back to before gaming was a thing (though they were likely weighted quite different).

True, these studies aren't generally done just to say women game, but these are used to show such to counter arguments to keep certain demographics away from being marketed to.

 

[Something Amyss]

True, these studies aren't generally done just to say women game, but these are used to show such to counter arguments to keep certain demographics away from being marketed to.

Yeah, and that really is a shame. It's somewhat heartening though that research and marketing groups treat it as the norm, though. It means the protests are likely in vain.

 

[Strazdas]

i do wonder how did they account for families? Families tend to share gaming devices. Could not find that in their methodology. thous would have a significant impact in making both genders closer to each-other because no matter which member of the family answered the phone they would say they have a console.

Other than that, well i guess its nice to see confirmation of what we already knew?

It's a shame we have to keep doing these studies to show women are valid gamers, even though the gate keepers of gaming will not likely believe the studies anyhow.

It's a shame that the gate keepers of gamers are, bluntly, deluded enough to think that people like being forcibly marginalized, and on top of that should be quiet about it.

except that noone is claiming that women are not valid gamers, nor owning a console makes you a gamer. being a gamer requires gaming to be your hobby, and this is definitely not true for all consoles owners. some console owners i know haven't even played a single game on them.

what the fuck would you use a gaming console for other than gaming?

I mean, I know some consoles run hot enough to cook an egg on but just because girls own consoles doesnt mean theyre cooking on them exactly.

This is just more pointless goal post shifting.

for quite a while PS3 was the cheapest blue-ray player around and people bought them for that. Same deal with DVDs and PS2 though that probably is less relevant nowadays. I also know some people that do not use their Xboxes for gaming but only for Netflix. (they game on PC instead).

It's pretty easy to see with most posters doubting the data or suggesting that just because one owns a console, doesn't mean they use it for gaming. It's just another way of saying "fake gamer girls."

except that people explicitly mentioned guys buying consoles for non-gaming reasons.....

 

[Strazdas]

i do wonder how did they account for families? Families tend to share gaming devices. Could not find that in their methodology. thous would have a significant impact in making both genders closer to each-other because no matter which member of the family answered the phone they would say they have a console.

I feel like you could solve this problem with a few more questions; how many people in your household, what are their genders, which of them plays the console.

yes, you could, but as far as i see there was none of that in this study. thats the point of that paragraph.

 

[Josh123914]

I like how quickly this thread went right to the whole "fake gamer girl" thing without actually calling that. Is there anything that guys get called "fake" for?

I get called a "fake gamer" for playing on PC and refusing to buy an XBOne this year.
People are idiots.

Btw this thread is in dire need of a poll. Just to aggregate what people here play.

 

[Erttheking]

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Technically true. But one thing that always drove me crazy is objections like that, while perfectly logical, only ever seem to get brought up when talking about how many women game. When it's just men you never see arguments like that. And it just drives me insane.

Hell if I know man...hell if I know. I just overlook it because there's no other indicator that the data is faulty. You see anything major that points to that, just let me know and I'll eat my words.

Actually that makes more sense than you might think at first sight, considering how pathetically the PS Vita is doing. People who played handheld are five times more likely to own a PSP rather than a PS Vita (Rounding down, 10 million Vitas have been sold while 50 million PSPs have been sold). Hell, my best friend has that set up going.

Nobody spoke specifically about women though. This study sure doesn't. This study speaks both about men and women and BOTH of these groups seem to be misrepresented due to the faulty methodology. You're focusing on the ramifications the study has about women but if you go there and look it doesn't seem to focus on women. It presents both sexes as equally relevant. It just so happens that this wrong methodology has as a result something that you like. It's what we call confirmation bias.


Also, again, for the third (and hopefully final) time, just OWNING a psp (which yes, more people own than they do Vita) does not mean you PLAY on the psp that you own. To presume that owning a system means that you use the system to play games on it, when the system is an ancient system that most people wouldn't use any more, is a LEAP IN LOGIC. You need more than you have right now to show the connection you're trying to show.

Owning a system doesn't mean you actually use it more than another system that you also own, phones included.

Let's be honest. These kinds of arguments only ever really pop up when someone is trying to point out how many women play video games. I'm tempted to wait a month or two for everyone to forget about this thread and then repost it without focusing specifically on any gender. I'm certain the responses would be radically different. Did I ever really imply that men didn't have a presence in gaming? I didn't feel the need to point that out because that's something that's been taken for granted since the dawn of the medium. The presence of women, on the other hand, is constantly being questioned. That and my conclusions was simply that women had a presence in gaming and that they did more than just play one dollar games on their iphones. And people seem to have a problem with that conclusion.

Yes I know that, it just frustrates me because this kind of argument only ever seems to come up when we're talking about how much of an impact on the industry. Whenever the conversation is just about men, the topic never seems to drift anywhere near the idea that men buy consoles or PSPs and then don't use them.

 

[Barbas]

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Keep hearing these views? They pop up pretty much every time these someone claims that half of women are gamers, they keep saying things like most of those women are just casual gamers.

I can handle people taking these stats apart. It was going to happen no matter how I worded it anyway.

Anyway...if you think this thread deserves to get locked I won't complain.

No, I personally think the OP'd just benefit from rewording and expansion is all.

 

[Leg End]

Snip

Keep hearing these views? They pop up pretty much every time these someone claims that half of women are gamers, they keep saying things like most of those women are just casual gamers.

I can handle people taking these stats apart. It was going to happen no matter how I worded it anyway.

Anyway...if you think this thread deserves to get locked I won't complain.

No, I personally think the OP'd just benefit from rewording and expansion is all.

I second this personally, personally.

Right now, it's really just saying "Women play games", which is common knowledge by now.

 

[Aerosteam]

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On the note of the PSP I think that was a good option because there are still 7 PSPs sold for every Vita sold as for the Sega Genesis...ok I have no idea what the hell happened there. I still think it's reliable but I can understand why you don't.

I dunno. People seem to really argue over these stats whenever they come up.

Like I said, there are still 7 PSPs out there for every Vita, so even if every person who bought a PSP bought a Vita and a million people who bought a PSP broke theirs and bought a replacement that would still be 5 million people who own a PSP and not a Vita. JRPGs and visual novels? I thought those were more popular among women (Thought, I can't find any stats to back that up.)

Still though? I remember that stat was given a while ago but I can't find it, closest was this. But anyway, that was about 4 years ago so I'm sure the PSP is long dead by now. Even then, I tend to hear PSP stats that only apply to Japan, which I'm not sure is relevant, considering this survey we're looking at was US only.

As for the JRPG's and visual novels thing, oh yeah, without a doubt most of them are catered to males... just... check out these games.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Snip

Technically true. But one thing that always drove me crazy is objections like that, while perfectly logical, only ever seem to get brought up when talking about how many women game. When it's just men you never see arguments like that. And it just drives me insane.

Hell if I know man...hell if I know. I just overlook it because there's no other indicator that the data is faulty. You see anything major that points to that, just let me know and I'll eat my words.

Actually that makes more sense than you might think at first sight, considering how pathetically the PS Vita is doing. People who played handheld are five times more likely to own a PSP rather than a PS Vita (Rounding down, 10 million Vitas have been sold while 50 million PSPs have been sold). Hell, my best friend has that set up going.

Nobody spoke specifically about women though. This study sure doesn't. This study speaks both about men and women and BOTH of these groups seem to be misrepresented due to the faulty methodology. You're focusing on the ramifications the study has about women but if you go there and look it doesn't seem to focus on women. It presents both sexes as equally relevant. It just so happens that this wrong methodology has as a result something that you like. It's what we call confirmation bias.


Also, again, for the third (and hopefully final) time, just OWNING a psp (which yes, more people own than they do Vita) does not mean you PLAY on the psp that you own. To presume that owning a system means that you use the system to play games on it, when the system is an ancient system that most people wouldn't use any more, is a LEAP IN LOGIC. You need more than you have right now to show the connection you're trying to show.

Owning a system doesn't mean you actually use it more than another system that you also own, phones included.

Let's be honest. These kinds of arguments only ever really pop up when someone is trying to point out how many women play video games. I'm tempted to wait a month or two for everyone to forget about this thread and then repost it without focusing specifically on any gender. I'm certain the responses would be radically different. Did I ever really imply that men didn't have a presence in gaming? I didn't feel the need to point that out because that's something that's been taken for granted since the dawn of the medium. The presence of women, on the other hand, is constantly being questioned. That and my conclusions was simply that women had a presence in gaming and that they did more than just play one dollar games on their iphones. And people seem to have a problem with that conclusion.

Yes I know that, it just frustrates me because this kind of argument only ever seems to come up when we're talking about how much of an impact on the industry. Whenever the conversation is just about men, the topic never seems to drift anywhere near the idea that men buy consoles or PSPs and then don't use them.

Even if I were to grant you all this (which sounds kinda persecution-complexy to me)it STILL doesn't make the points wrong though. Worst case scenario we need to call out more false statistics about men. It still doesn't change the fact about these statistics here being wrong, not one tiny little bit.


Also, who even makes such topics about men, like, ever. Nobody tries to use equally applied studies to show this or that about JUST men or make a point that is only about men doing whatever, thus there's never really any methodology to question in the first place. We just don't even broach the subject when it's specifically only about men, cause we don't care how many men play games.

 

[Redryhno]

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On the note of the PSP I think that was a good option because there are still 7 PSPs sold for every Vita sold as for the Sega Genesis...ok I have no idea what the hell happened there. I still think it's reliable but I can understand why you don't.

I dunno. People seem to really argue over these stats whenever they come up.

Like I said, there are still 7 PSPs out there for every Vita, so even if every person who bought a PSP bought a Vita and a million people who bought a PSP broke theirs and bought a replacement that would still be 5 million people who own a PSP and not a Vita. JRPGs and visual novels? I thought those were more popular among women (Thought, I can't find any stats to back that up.)

Still though? I remember that stat was given a while ago but I can't find it, closest was this. But anyway, that was about 4 years ago so I'm sure the PSP is long dead by now. Even then, I tend to hear PSP stats that only apply to Japan, which I'm not sure is relevant, considering this survey we're looking at was US only.

As for the JRPG's and visual novels thing, oh yeah, without a doubt most of them are catered to males... just... check out these games.

Eh, Monpiece, Neptunia, and Akiba Trip also have pretty good sales numbers among the gay community if I'm remembering right. It's not as straight dude oriented as you think...just more marketed towards general cute anime girl lovers honestly. And as we all know, weebs and otakus come in all shapes, sizes, shyness, and sexualities.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

i do wonder how did they account for families? Families tend to share gaming devices. Could not find that in their methodology. thous would have a significant impact in making both genders closer to each-other because no matter which member of the family answered the phone they would say they have a console.

Other than that, well i guess its nice to see confirmation of what we already knew?

It's a shame we have to keep doing these studies to show women are valid gamers, even though the gate keepers of gaming will not likely believe the studies anyhow.

It's a shame that the gate keepers of gamers are, bluntly, deluded enough to think that people like being forcibly marginalized, and on top of that should be quiet about it.

except that noone is claiming that women are not valid gamers, nor owning a console makes you a gamer. being a gamer requires gaming to be your hobby, and this is definitely not true for all consoles owners. some console owners i know haven't even played a single game on them.

People in this thread seen it happen. I've seen it happen. Women shunted into the "omg, they're CASUALS! they only play candy crush! Disregard them!!!" crap. I certainly wouldn't want to deny their existence.

Define hobby, here. Coz I wanna see what you believe a hobby is. Sounds to me like another arbitrary obstacle to be called a "gamer." Could be wrong here, though.

Saying "not all console owners use it for gaming" is kinda messed up. You don't know what percentage that is overall, and it gives ammo to the people that want to disregard minority's/women's opinions as they'll surely say that enough of them aren't "gamers."

 

[Strazdas]

i do wonder how did they account for families? Families tend to share gaming devices. Could not find that in their methodology. thous would have a significant impact in making both genders closer to each-other because no matter which member of the family answered the phone they would say they have a console.

Other than that, well i guess its nice to see confirmation of what we already knew?

It's a shame we have to keep doing these studies to show women are valid gamers, even though the gate keepers of gaming will not likely believe the studies anyhow.

It's a shame that the gate keepers of gamers are, bluntly, deluded enough to think that people like being forcibly marginalized, and on top of that should be quiet about it.

except that noone is claiming that women are not valid gamers, nor owning a console makes you a gamer. being a gamer requires gaming to be your hobby, and this is definitely not true for all consoles owners. some console owners i know haven't even played a single game on them.

People in this thread seen it happen. I've seen it happen. Women shunted into the "omg, they're CASUALS! they only play candy crush! Disregard them!!!" crap. I certainly wouldn't want to deny their existence.

Define hobby, here. Coz I wanna see what you believe a hobby is. Sounds to me like another arbitrary obstacle to be called a "gamer." Could be wrong here, though.

Saying "not all console owners use it for gaming" is kinda messed up. You don't know what percentage that is overall, and it gives ammo to the people that want to disregard minority's/women's opinions as they'll surely say that enough of them aren't "gamers."

anecdotal evidence at its finest. seeing one troll does not make everyone a troll. It is a fact that women tend to choose different games to play, but that has nothing to do with being a gamer.

Dictionary [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hobby] defines hobby as "An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure." Personally i think that when it comes to games we should make a distinction between people who are gaming for pleasure and those that turn a game on once a week to pass the time. I also believe that being part of community is important. Now since i saw a lot of destractors dismiss these claims for silly reasons, ill state this: It is not about what games you play or for how long. Its about the mindset you have about games.

Saying not all console owners use it for gaming is stating a fact. there is nothing messed up about that. No, we do not know what percentage that is overall, and, apperently, neither does these researchers. But they are not the ones making claim that console owner = gamer, the OP is.

Id like if you made up your mind. so is the women majority gamers (if we take owner = gamer in this study), or are they a minority. they cant be both. Either way, at this point the disparity is so small it really doesnt matter and can easily be chalked up to statistical error and personal choices. Now if you want to talk ESA statistics - that one is a whole different can of worms. most people in ESA statistics ARENT gamers. and that includes both men and women. Its becuase ESA is bad statistics fueled by agenda (of making gaming look better than it is).

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Regarding the "who is a gamer" thing, I saw this video a while back and it broke down the issue we have here in a smart way. Gamer means two different things, simultaneously. It means just being someone who has played games, period. It also means being a fan of games like how a foodie is more of a fan of food than someone who doesn't care about food at all but still eats their 3 meals a day.


Whether someone is a gamer or not depends on the definition the speaker is using. To argue and try to put one definition above the other will never succeed and will only create animosity and chaos.

As gaming becomes more mainstream, I think the second definition begins to become a lot more useful, since you will have tons of people who have "some" gaming experience, but you may not be able to actually relate to them or they to you, were they to be a foodie-level gamer and you a mere eater. A whole lot of people have started gaming in the recent times so you may not be able to have a conversation about games of the past with them, you will not be able to discuss a whole lot of experiences that gamers consider highly important.

Of course, other people (for who knows what reason) will take this as a slight, as though people are claiming they're not real gamers, or whatever, when all people are trying to do is maintain their community in a clearly defined way. If you actually are a foodie-type gamer and you're interacting with decent people, they won't have a reason to deny you your gamerness. If they do, it's because they're not decent people, not because of other reasons. If you're not a foodie and feel that us foodies bunching together because we actually wanna have meaningful discussions about an activity we enjoy with others like us and you feel that this excludes you and you don't like that...well...I dunno...mind your own damn business and let other people do their thing unobstructed? lol

 

[Rebel_Raven]

i do wonder how did they account for families? Families tend to share gaming devices. Could not find that in their methodology. thous would have a significant impact in making both genders closer to each-other because no matter which member of the family answered the phone they would say they have a console.

Other than that, well i guess its nice to see confirmation of what we already knew?

It's a shame we have to keep doing these studies to show women are valid gamers, even though the gate keepers of gaming will not likely believe the studies anyhow.

It's a shame that the gate keepers of gamers are, bluntly, deluded enough to think that people like being forcibly marginalized, and on top of that should be quiet about it.

except that noone is claiming that women are not valid gamers, nor owning a console makes you a gamer. being a gamer requires gaming to be your hobby, and this is definitely not true for all consoles owners. some console owners i know haven't even played a single game on them.

People in this thread seen it happen. I've seen it happen. Women shunted into the "omg, they're CASUALS! they only play candy crush! Disregard them!!!" crap. I certainly wouldn't want to deny their existence.

Define hobby, here. Coz I wanna see what you believe a hobby is. Sounds to me like another arbitrary obstacle to be called a "gamer." Could be wrong here, though.

Saying "not all console owners use it for gaming" is kinda messed up. You don't know what percentage that is overall, and it gives ammo to the people that want to disregard minority's/women's opinions as they'll surely say that enough of them aren't "gamers."

anecdotal evidence at its finest. seeing one troll does not make everyone a troll. It is a fact that women tend to choose different games to play, but that has nothing to do with being a gamer.

Dictionary [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hobby] defines hobby as "An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure." Personally i think that when it comes to games we should make a distinction between people who are gaming for pleasure and those that turn a game on once a week to pass the time. I also believe that being part of community is important. Now since i saw a lot of destractors dismiss these claims for silly reasons, ill state this: It is not about what games you play or for how long. Its about the mindset you have about games.

Saying not all console owners use it for gaming is stating a fact. there is nothing messed up about that. No, we do not know what percentage that is overall, and, apperently, neither does these researchers. But they are not the ones making claim that console owner = gamer, the OP is.

Id like if you made up your mind. so is the women majority gamers (if we take owner = gamer in this study), or are they a minority. they cant be both. Either way, at this point the disparity is so small it really doesnt matter and can easily be chalked up to statistical error and personal choices. Now if you want to talk ESA statistics - that one is a whole different can of worms. most people in ESA statistics ARENT gamers. and that includes both men and women. Its becuase ESA is bad statistics fueled by agenda (of making gaming look better than it is).

"anecdotal evidence at its finest." Says the person seeing some people not using a console for gaming. Same thing. Your anecdotes aren't better or worse than mine. Just coz you see some not using their consoles for gaming doesn't mean they all are that way, obviously.

Women and men also have game overlap, too. They don't segregate as neatly as all that.

I don't believe there should be a distinction between the two. I don't believe people play a game if they're not having fun with it no matter what the game is.
Sometimes we all get bored and play a game to pass the time no matter how big, or what is in our library.

Saying thehre's trolls out there is fact, too. Don't throw anecdotal stuff at me, and get upset when you get some back. If mine isn't valid, then neither is yours.

Well, if you have a console/PC, and you play a game on it, even if it's just solitaire, you're a gamer in my book. Gamer to me means playing games.

I never said they were the majority. It shouldn't matter if they're a minority, either. It's absurd to expect anyone to enjoy being marginalized, and told they don't matter by elitists.
I'm not interested in the "agenda" as I was hoping was implied by my initial post. We shouldn't need studies. I just feel like, well, we should be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!
All this shoving people into checklists, and boxes sucks.

 

[Strazdas]

"anecdotal evidence at its finest." Says the person seeing some people not using a console for gaming. Same thing. Your anecdotes aren't better or worse than mine. Just coz you see some not using their consoles for gaming doesn't mean they all are that way, obviously.

Women and men also have game overlap, too. They don't segregate as neatly as all that.

I don't believe there should be a distinction between the two. I don't believe people play a game if they're not having fun with it no matter what the game is.
Sometimes we all get bored and play a game to pass the time no matter how big, or what is in our library.

Saying thehre's trolls out there is fact, too. Don't throw anecdotal stuff at me, and get upset when you get some back. If mine isn't valid, then neither is yours.

Well, if you have a console/PC, and you play a game on it, even if it's just solitaire, you're a gamer in my book. Gamer to me means playing games.

I never said they were the majority. It shouldn't matter if they're a minority, either. It's absurd to expect anyone to enjoy being marginalized, and told they don't matter by elitists.
I'm not interested in the "agenda" as I was hoping was implied by my initial post. We shouldn't need studies. I just feel like, well, we should be excellent to each other, and party on, dudes!
All this shoving people into checklists, and boxes sucks.

I did not make the claim that most people are represented by my not really anecdotal examples (Sony/MS have im fact boasted about it themselves so its big enough for them to notice). No, my anecdotes are better because they are grounded in reality with real, large, communities surounding them to the point where the manufacturers themselves consider it something worth advertising for. my enecdotes are also confirmed by multitude of posters here. Whereas your anecdotes seem to be so rare we are 2 pages in and yet to see a single one. and yet you make much bigger claims than i ever dared to. i never claimed that all console owners own them for nongaming purposes, that would be stupid. i claimed that there is a portion of console owners that do this (like US Navy for example, though they probably didnt call them here) that do not use it for gaming and simply equating owners to gamers is incorrect.

I never claimed they segregate. i said there are tendencies of certain genres be more populated by certain gender. for example last statistics i saw was something like 20% of shooter players were women whereas around 60% of RPG gamers were women. i believe it was over 90% for women in puzzlers. but like i said, this does not matter in regards to being a gamer because genre of the game is not the defining factor.

Gamer to me means playing games.

then you are wrong.

ah, heres that word again, elitists. Elitists are better than others. thats the definition of the word elite. i think a lot of people wrongly use this and they dont actually mean that these people are better. its fun when others call you better unintentionally, though.

Noone is being marginalized here. that is a ridiculous claim and it always was a ridiculous claim. Not belonging to a group is not being marginalized. Im not marginalized because im not a petrolhead even though if i tried to claim i am not i would be laughed out of the place.

 

[Phasmal]

Gamer to me means playing games.

then you are wrong.

Yeah, Rebel_Raven, what are you thinking?
Gamers don't play games. Jeez...

Ah, these discussions. So predictable. So silly.