Stats on console and portable gaming device ownsership

[Strazdas]

Gamer to me means playing games.

then you are wrong.

Yeah, Rebel_Raven, what are you thinking?
Gamers don't play games. Jeez...

Ah, these discussions. So predictable. So silly.

Gamers are game enthusiasts. Simply playing a game does not make you a game enthusiasts like simply watching a movie does not turn you into a movie buff or driving a car does not turn you into a petrolhead.

Yes, pretty predictable here, since, you know, the position hasnt changed despite outside influence trying to pervert the concept.

 

[Phasmal]

Gamer to me means playing games.

then you are wrong.

Yeah, Rebel_Raven, what are you thinking?
Gamers don't play games. Jeez...

Ah, these discussions. So predictable. So silly.

Gamers are game enthusiasts. Simply playing a game does not make you a game enthusiasts like simply watching a movie does not turn you into a movie buff or driving a car does not turn you into a petrolhead.

Yes, pretty predictable here, since, you know, the position hasnt changed despite outside influence trying to pervert the concept.

Whut? Position? Pervert? What?

Yeah, we can't let stats like people owning consoles confuse us about who plays games. We can't let people playing games pervert the purity of being a gamer. Pffffffffft.

Anywho, I just wanted to make a funny with that quote. I don't really care- ladies are all up in gaming, people can dispute the numbers if it makes them happy, at the end of the day the result is the same.

 

[Strazdas]

Gamer to me means playing games.

then you are wrong.

Yeah, Rebel_Raven, what are you thinking?
Gamers don't play games. Jeez...

Ah, these discussions. So predictable. So silly.

Gamers are game enthusiasts. Simply playing a game does not make you a game enthusiasts like simply watching a movie does not turn you into a movie buff or driving a car does not turn you into a petrolhead.

Yes, pretty predictable here, since, you know, the position hasnt changed despite outside influence trying to pervert the concept.

Whut? Position? Pervert? What?

Yeah, we can't let stats like people owning consoles confuse us about who plays games. We can't let people playing games pervert the purity of being a gamer. Pffffffffft.

Anywho, I just wanted to make a funny with that quote. I don't really care- ladies are all up in gaming, people can dispute the numbers if it makes them happy, at the end of the day the result is the same.

and now you are just building a strawman. I already explained my reservations of console ownership being equated to gaming, but as i state again - this has nothing to do with being a gamer. Nor have i ever said that women are not in gaming, in fact i stated quite the opposite.

You did "make a funny" with that quote, but not in the way you intended. the post was funny because it was the same old rethoric trying to build strawmen hoping to discredit what people say without engaging the argument itself.

I see you also found issue with the word pervert.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pervert
to change (something good) so that it is no longer what it was or should be

 

[Phasmal]

and now you are just building a strawman. I already explained my reservations of console ownership being equated to gaming, but as i state again - this has nothing to do with being a gamer. Nor have i ever said that women are not in gaming, in fact i stated quite the opposite.

You did "make a funny" with that quote, but not in the way you intended. the post was funny because it was the same old rethoric trying to build strawmen hoping to discredit what people say without engaging the argument itself.

You're kind of strawmanning me with my supposed strawman of you. Strawception!

I didn't say you said women weren't into gaming. I said people quibbling over numbers doesn't bother me, and there certainly is quibbling over these numbers.

I'm not `engaging with your argument` because it isn't an argument. You have a different standard of `gamer` than others, doesn't make you right. I'm sure you'll dispute, but again. I'm not particularly fussed.

I see you also found issue with the word pervert.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pervert
to change (something good) so that it is no longer what it was or should be

Oh my god, I put a question mark after it because I don't see what exactly is being `perverted`, not because I don't know what it means. Wow.

 

[Strazdas]

You're kind of strawmanning me with my supposed strawman of you. Strawception!

I didn't say you said women weren't into gaming. I said people quibbling over numbers doesn't bother me, and there certainly is quibbling over these numbers.

I'm not `engaging with your argument` because it isn't an argument. You have a different standard of `gamer` than others, doesn't make you right. I'm sure you'll dispute, but again. I'm not particularly fussed.

Oh my god, I put a question mark after it because I don't see what exactly is being `perverted`, not because I don't know what it means. Wow.

Sigh.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inception
(in science fiction) the act of instilling an idea into someone's mind by entering his or her dreams.

Strawception would mean instilling straw into someones mind. it makes no sense.

care to show where i made a strawman out of you?

Definition of a gamer existed more or less since there were videogames and it remained static through those decades. Just because there are some people now that for one reason or another want to change it does not mean that it is somehow wrong.

in the same reply you have quoted the part of my post that explains what is being perverted, so i suggest you read my posts again. here ill quote it:

Gamers are game enthusiasts. Simply playing a game does not make you a game enthusiasts like simply watching a movie does not turn you into a movie buff or driving a car does not turn you into a petrolhead.

 

[Phasmal]

Sigh.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inception
(in science fiction) the act of instilling an idea into someone's mind by entering his or her dreams.

Strawception would mean instilling straw into someones mind. it makes no sense.

care to show where i made a strawman out of you?

Definition of a gamer existed more or less since there were videogames and it remained static through those decades. Just because there are some people now that for one reason or another want to change it does not mean that it is somehow wrong.

in the same reply you have quoted the part of my post that explains what is being perverted, so i suggest you read my posts again. here ill quote it:

Gamers are game enthusiasts. Simply playing a game does not make you a game enthusiasts like simply watching a movie does not turn you into a movie buff or driving a car does not turn you into a petrolhead.

Hahahaha. You're hilarious, dude.

I've got one for you, too!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gamer?s=t

Dictionaries are fun. This conversation isn't. :c

I'll agree to disagree, bye bye now.

 

[Strazdas]

Hahahaha. You're hilarious, dude.

I've got one for you, too!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gamer?s=t

Dictionaries are fun. This conversation isn't. :c

I'll agree to disagree, bye bye now.

This conversation is not supposed to be funny. Though im glad you are having fun even if it is at my behalf.
Yep, dictionaries are most definitely fun, especially when they talk nonsense

P.S. tumbler link, lol.

 

[Lightspeaker]

As for the JRPG's and visual novels thing, oh yeah, without a doubt most of them are catered to males... just... check out these games.

Nice stereotyping and assumptions you got there. Do we really have to go off on a tangent about the concept of cuteness in Japanese culture and different standards with respect to prudishness and the thus universal appeal of cute games or can we just brush over that whole thing and take it as given that its going to be a retread of the many, many times its been done before?

And for the record personally I got into Neptunia after a bunch of people I know who happen to be female recommended it very highly. Shock horror, women are allowed to like cute games with risqué things in them, as are men. Stop the presses!


On topic: I'm...really not sure where the OP is trying to go with this one. It seems like a rant against something but its kinda unclear.

I mean what's the endgame? Women play games? I thought everyone was already aware of that. To actually add something to the discussion, however, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure if 50% of people playing games are female because historically its been a heavily male-orientated form of entertainment but I'd be very surprised if it was less than 30-35%. I know plenty of female gamers myself, after all.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

There's actual studies that Jrpgs and Visual novels DO indeed have a higher ratio of female audiences than most other genres though. Even if some of these Jrpgs are "aimed" at men, the fact that women like them is the significant bit, not that the games they like more than, say, competitive shooters, are not aimed at them. If they like them more, then these games being as they are are ALREADY good enough!


(also, I feel I should point out that I just tackled the gamer thing a couple posts up and yet invariable people glossed it over and started arguing about it again...grief)

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Wait, what are you lot hoping to gain from arguing bere? I see no useful end goal. Was not expecting another gender argument based on this title alone. Pass the Oxytocin around quick, please!

 

[kris40k]

Well, sadly this is all I got on the matter. Anything else would probably require in depth knowledge on exactly how surverys work, which seems to be a bit more complicated than you might think. Absolutely true about the phrasing changing the answer. I wish I could give you more info but this is all I got.

I appreciate that, but yeah, the framing of the questions would be important. If you called my house and my GF answered and you asked her, "Do you own a gaming console," she would answer "Yeah, everything except a PS4 which we're getting this Christmas."

She doesn't play console games. She's a PC gamer.

 

[Saetha]

I don't get it, I'm afraid. It's one thing just reposting or reporting information, but what did you want to talk about?

That women had a presence in gaming as proved by the fact that more women own consoles than men because this is something that is frequently disputed on this very website...did I word my arguments that badly?

I'm not gonna bother arguing the data, because that's the same circular argument that always pops up around this and clearly, plenty of others in the forum have it covered.

But, here's the thing that always confuses me - this data claims women have a presence in the industry. That the are a major, if not the major, consumer of products. Okay. Cool. So... why should anything change? I often see this used as a reason why the industry and the games it produces need to change to better accommodate women - but if enough women poured in to become a major consumer pool so quickly, then obviously games are doing something right. They should keep doing what they're doing, even. I mean - the women are already here! Clearly they like it, or they wouldn't bother with it. If this were a serious, quality-effecting complaint, to the point where women won't even buy a game/console because it impairs they're enjoyment, these numbers wouldn't be as high.

It just seems like such redundant logic to me. These stats aren't the call for change so many seem to celebrate them as. They're, if anything, an urge to stay on course, because clearly they're doing something right being just as they are.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I see no problem with the idea that more women own consoles than men...i applaud it if it's true because 99.9% of the males i've played with or against on games are completely shit and maybe the females need more of a chance so i can actually get some competition.

Look at women's football...they outperform the males in my country by a long long way.

Men are mostly shit at everything they do

*yes, i am male*

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

But all these things were still in ADDITION to playing games.

I think it's just dishonest for a lot of people to go "well, if 50% of gamers are women then they must be using phones!"

and then when proven that it applies to consoles too, immediately switch to "well I bet they dont even game on their gaming consoles!"

there's just no amount of information that will satisfy some people when it comes to proving how much women game

just to chime in with the others, one of my best friends wife got an xbone purely as a media player, she plays music/netflix on it pretty much every day while she's home with their kid, but I don't think ONCE has she ever played a game on it.

so, just like the other people, I completely agree that the argument is silly in the first place (to argue against women gaming), but I do know personally know a girl who owns a console and doesn't play games on it ever.


and as mentioned, in my extended family alone we had like 8 ps2's that were used purely as dvd players, they were so cheap comparatively that it was well worth it in case cousins/kids came over that wanted to also play video games.

OT: I'll mirror what alot of other posters weere going for here...

wat. Of course women game, and of course they own consoles, I wouldn't expect anything less...? Are we purposely trying to reminisce on a time when jackasses said otherwise so we can pretend to have our jimmies rustled again? What's the point here? I don't think that poll helps anyone, really...

 

[asdfen]

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids
while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

female gamer demographics is much smaller than male world wide not just in the US. It makes sense since game developers are also mostly guys. That does not mean there are no game developers or players who are female.

females are much more social creatures than males just look at the jobs females are in http://www.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2.
Gaming remains an antisocial activity making it not as popular among females

 

[09philj]

Are the stats accurate? Probably not. Should we pretend they're accurate? I think yes. It's for our own good. It's a noble lie.

 

[Phasmal]

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids
while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

Which also works the other way around? Dads buy consoles for kids? Women can own more than one console and even play them.

female gamer demographics is much smaller than male world wide not just in the US. It makes sense since game developers are also mostly guys. That does not mean there are no game developers or players who are female.

females are much more social creatures than males just look at the jobs females are in http://www.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2.
Gaming remains an antisocial activity making it not as popular among females

Spoiler: Me right now

There's dispute over how much the demographics differ. Which is kind of the point in studies like these.

 

[Redryhno]

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids
while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

Which also works the other way around? Dads buy consoles for kids? Women can own more than one console and even play them.

Yeah, but the thing is that these stats are so stupidly arranged if you're going for a "MORE WOMEN PLAY GAMES THAN MEN" statement. There's the simple things like the simple act of owning a console(with all consoles going back thirty years being given equal weight) is being equated with hardcore gaming, when MANY people in this thread have said that they know multiple people and families that didn't get consoles to play games for themselves. The PS2 partly sold so well because it was the cheapest DVD player on the market that had more than one function. The PS3 the cheapest Blu-Ray. All you needed for a party stereo was a 360 and an SDCard adapter or just a disk because it played through the tv while also giving the standard music player music shapes in a pretty central location of most homes. And alot of the marketing for the XBONE was that it was a multi-media device with alot of time devoted to what it could do.

Then there's as you go further down, it talks about how young, tech-minded people with disposable income own more than older, non-tech minded people without as much disposable when it comes to tablets, smartphones, etc. NO SHIT SHERLOCK.

And then the biggest kicker for me is that there's no distinction given for PC Gaming, there's just the stats for who owns PCs, which is a bit of a skewed statistic when we start with the OP's statement. Everyone's owned a computer for the better part of two decades nowadays.

And hell, even if the stats are perfectly arranged and are exactly in conjunction with the OP's statement/opinion/etc, then exactly what is wrong with the gaming industry(an argument that gets brought up constantly in these conversations) that it needs to start catering to women? If more women play than men, then what needs to change? Women are buying and playing, meaning that their needs are being catered to enough that change isn't really needed beyond tweaks.

And tweaks are largely failures in AAA going by history, and not really heard of in the indie community. And sometimes both in the case of Rise of the Tomb Raider(HAHA!).

But I'd like to reiterate, I have no doubts that women game, I simply question if the stats actually say much of anything other than who picked up the phone and that the statistics actually show what is being said.

 

[Something Amyss]

I appreciate that, but yeah, the framing of the questions would be important. If you called my house and my GF answered and you asked her, "Do you own a gaming console," she would answer "Yeah, everything except a PS4 which we're getting this Christmas."

She doesn't play console games. She's a PC gamer.

Just to point out, this is Pew market research we're talking about. A company with a ton of experience in delivering not only trustworthy but useful information. Now, this doesn't mean that they are without flaw, but do you honestly believe that you caught an error in the methodology that they wouldn't have? Have you looked at any of their data sets before or even the questions that they asked?

It seems super unlikely that, given those things, they just slipped up here.

these statistics say nothing.
for instance when mum buys a console for kids

Since it looks as ownership, that's not a very good excuse.

while a dude can own multiple consoles that he bought for himself

Which isn't a useful counterpoint. Having more than one console doesn't make you more of a sonole gamer.

Not to mention, both of these explanations can apply the other way.

female gamer demographics is much smaller than male world wide not just in the US.

Weird, the numbers keep saying otherwise.

females are much more social creatures than males just look at the jobs females are in http://www.businessinsider.com/pink-collar-jobs-dominated-by-women-2015-2.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. This assumes that these must be the jobs women want because they have them. And then assumes that it must be their nature because why else would they want them?

There's also a strong correlation between video games and aggression. Do you believe that, or is that different?

Gaming remains an antisocial activity making it not as popular among females

Which is why there are huge communities built around it.

It's not really antisocial. And you'd see more women present if they weren't actively pushed out.

Are the stats accurate? Probably not. Should we pretend they're accurate? I think yes. It's for our own good. It's a noble lie.

I'm curious as to what metric you used to come to the determination that they're "probably not" true.

 

[kris40k]

Just to point out, this is Pew market research we're talking about. A company with a ton of experience in delivering not only trustworthy but useful information. Now, this doesn't mean that they are without flaw, but do you honestly believe that you caught an error in the methodology that they wouldn't have? Have you looked at any of their data sets before or even the questions that they asked?

It seems super unlikely that, given those things, they just slipped up here.

Well, actually, I just did look more into it. The question was framed," Please tell me if you happen to have each of the following items, or not. Do you have...A game console like Xbox or Play Station"

So yeah, not looking so hot for the framing of the question. I could easily see that being answered as yes as our household has a shitload of consoles in it.

Questions located here. [http://www.pewinternet.org/files/2015/10/PI_2015-10-29_device-ownership_TOPLINE.pdf]