Steam Summer Sale started today

[Ragnar47183]

Ughh. Two more Early Access games on the main sale. I can see where this is going and I dont like it.

theres 7 other non-early access games dude, not to mention almost the entirely of the steam catalog has some sort of discount, and flash sales also often donde include early access games, you can even vota for games you want to be on sale, which obviously wont include early access since you dont like em

Whats your point? Early Access shouldn't be on the sale.

why?

those are games too

Youre right but they arent finished. The early access program is supposed to be designed for people to support devs before the game is out.

Putting these games on sale on the front page of steam attract the general populace that will negatively impact the game. There is a reason there is a separate tab for early access and they should stay there.

Not to mention the problems you get with the DayZ sale where the sale made the price cheaper than what the first adopters paid for it. Something the devs said wouldn't happen.

There are completed games that deserve the spotlight of these sales a lot more and would benefit a lot more.

11 days of sales

9 spots on the main page every day

4 spots in flash sales, 3 flash sales per day means 12 spots per day, same for community choices



in total, 261 games will appear on the front page at one point or another, in fact i believe we are going to see games appearing on the front page more than once before this is over, so dont worry about the spotlight

there is a valid argument about what you say i guess, but those games are still amrket as early access in their respective store pages, is still, at the end, the customer's decision whenever to buy em or not

The main sales are given more of a highlight than the other two. Although I think Flash sales have better prices.

That being said 1/3 of the main sales are Early Access and 1/4 of the flash sales are Early Access. For someone like me who doesn't even think Early Access should be a thing, let alone be on the main sale, the sale quality is reduced by quite a lot.

Why would I want to see 15%-33% off a early access game instead of some slightly older games at 75-90% off? I picked up Just Cause 2 for $2 in one off the older summer sales. Compare that to $30 for DayZ and the quality is just laughable.

If they really wanted to do this they could have easily included 1 or 2 early access titles in the community choice so that if people really wanted them they could vote.

and yet those game still end up in the best selling list, the market has spoken, if you dont like dem early access games, dont buy em, it really doesnt affect you in any way

Except it does. 33% of the sale being Early Access means there are fewer finished games that get on the sale. If you are someone who doesnt buy Early Access it means the sale is much less interesting. Especially if you already have a huge library of games.

Iv'e already got the big AAA/Indie titles for the most part. The Far Cry 3s, Dragon Ages and Skyrims of the sale. With more of a limited space they would put these games up instead of lesser known or popular games that I might not have yet.

Not to mention the fact that I really dont agree with Early Access and don't want to see them on steam, let alone on sale.

theres well over 2500 games on sale right now, plus 261 spaces for them to be featured, how much more sales do you need?

also one could argue that if those early access games werent discounted, the sale would be less interesting for those people that bought those games during the sale

like i said, the market has spoken

honestly i think you are exaggerating, theres enough storefront space to go around

Im talking about the main sales here mate. Theres about 100 spaces and with 30 or so used for early access. For someone like me with well over 300 games in my library and who already has the big AAA games, this sale isn't very good.

But even putting that aside, I don't agree with Early Access. I don't want them near the sale and I dont think they should be featured on the main page. Even Total Biscuit is getting flustered with this sale in his last video. Early Access should not be used like this.

and yet he also recommended prison architect, an early access game, this is something that in my opinion should be addressed in a case by case basis, and there are people out there who like early access, it gives them tangible rewards of playing a game early and usually cheaper, plus they get the chance to shape the game for its eventual release, so yeah the system doesnt work for a person like you, but it clearly works for them

like i said, i think you are exaggerating, for instance today theres only ONE early access game on the front page, accross all the flash sales, community choices and daily deals, plus complaining about early access taking a spot on the daily deals is in my opinion, like complaining about kingdoms of amalur taking a spot "i dont like kingdoms of amalur, the game is taking a spot other GOOD games could take", see?

How do you not understand this? Not liking a game because of its mechanics is way different from not liking an entire business practice. Its not about whatever particular game you happen to like is Early Access. Its not about the game at all. Its about EARLY ACCESS. Specifically relating to this topic its about Early Access when it comes to sales. Do you really think an early access game should be put up for a sale? Isn't the point of Early Access to help the devs? Why would you want to give them less money in that case? You just ignored my whole DayZ example where the backers where told they are getting the game at half price for backing it and its not going to be any lower until after the game comes out. Lo and behold, the sale that just happened made it cheaper than the backers price.

Then theres the whole point of a game not released yet given spot light when theres already thousands of games that have released properly that deserve the spotlight. The main sale is what the majority of people see and whats given the most attention so thats the part that really matters. We shouldn't see these games there. If they have to be on sale then they can be put in the community choice OR what I think is the best option, they can just be put on sale not on the front page and if people are interested in Early Access they can go to the Early Access tab and look for games they want to support.

Also at the time of my previous posts I was not exaggerating. Up until today there have been 1/3 of the titles on Early Access on the main sale. You can go back and look. I can't see the future and had no way of knowing only 1 would be on sale today. Hence why I said I dont like the way this is going.

I would just like to reiterate one of my previous points as well. The fact that some Early Access titles do well are not indicative of Early Access doing well. The reason those games do well is there is a lack of those types of games in the market and people are interested in the idea of the game. Early Access does nothing to change that. In fact it might hurt it. I dont think Early Access is in the best interest of the industry and many people share that opinion. The system is entirely to easy to abuse and you are putting to much trust in the hands of people that have done nothing to deserve it. That doesnt mean the traditional Publisher/Dev system is perfect but I do think its a hell of a lot better than this.

 

[purf]

So far, it's been easy on me.
Only got Tomb Raider today, for a fiver.

 

[B5Alpha]

I've already got 3 games, although I don't know if you would count Sniper Elite 3. 505 and Rebellion sure got the short end of the stick there. Gabe should've warned them.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Ughh. Two more Early Access games on the main sale. I can see where this is going and I dont like it.

theres 7 other non-early access games dude, not to mention almost the entirely of the steam catalog has some sort of discount, and flash sales also often donde include early access games, you can even vota for games you want to be on sale, which obviously wont include early access since you dont like em

Whats your point? Early Access shouldn't be on the sale.

why?

those are games too

Youre right but they arent finished. The early access program is supposed to be designed for people to support devs before the game is out.

Putting these games on sale on the front page of steam attract the general populace that will negatively impact the game. There is a reason there is a separate tab for early access and they should stay there.

Not to mention the problems you get with the DayZ sale where the sale made the price cheaper than what the first adopters paid for it. Something the devs said wouldn't happen.

There are completed games that deserve the spotlight of these sales a lot more and would benefit a lot more.

11 days of sales

9 spots on the main page every day

4 spots in flash sales, 3 flash sales per day means 12 spots per day, same for community choices



in total, 261 games will appear on the front page at one point or another, in fact i believe we are going to see games appearing on the front page more than once before this is over, so dont worry about the spotlight

there is a valid argument about what you say i guess, but those games are still amrket as early access in their respective store pages, is still, at the end, the customer's decision whenever to buy em or not

The main sales are given more of a highlight than the other two. Although I think Flash sales have better prices.

That being said 1/3 of the main sales are Early Access and 1/4 of the flash sales are Early Access. For someone like me who doesn't even think Early Access should be a thing, let alone be on the main sale, the sale quality is reduced by quite a lot.

Why would I want to see 15%-33% off a early access game instead of some slightly older games at 75-90% off? I picked up Just Cause 2 for $2 in one off the older summer sales. Compare that to $30 for DayZ and the quality is just laughable.

If they really wanted to do this they could have easily included 1 or 2 early access titles in the community choice so that if people really wanted them they could vote.

and yet those game still end up in the best selling list, the market has spoken, if you dont like dem early access games, dont buy em, it really doesnt affect you in any way

Except it does. 33% of the sale being Early Access means there are fewer finished games that get on the sale. If you are someone who doesnt buy Early Access it means the sale is much less interesting. Especially if you already have a huge library of games.

Iv'e already got the big AAA/Indie titles for the most part. The Far Cry 3s, Dragon Ages and Skyrims of the sale. With more of a limited space they would put these games up instead of lesser known or popular games that I might not have yet.

Not to mention the fact that I really dont agree with Early Access and don't want to see them on steam, let alone on sale.

theres well over 2500 games on sale right now, plus 261 spaces for them to be featured, how much more sales do you need?

also one could argue that if those early access games werent discounted, the sale would be less interesting for those people that bought those games during the sale

like i said, the market has spoken

honestly i think you are exaggerating, theres enough storefront space to go around

Im talking about the main sales here mate. Theres about 100 spaces and with 30 or so used for early access. For someone like me with well over 300 games in my library and who already has the big AAA games, this sale isn't very good.

But even putting that aside, I don't agree with Early Access. I don't want them near the sale and I dont think they should be featured on the main page. Even Total Biscuit is getting flustered with this sale in his last video. Early Access should not be used like this.

and yet he also recommended prison architect, an early access game, this is something that in my opinion should be addressed in a case by case basis, and there are people out there who like early access, it gives them tangible rewards of playing a game early and usually cheaper, plus they get the chance to shape the game for its eventual release, so yeah the system doesnt work for a person like you, but it clearly works for them

like i said, i think you are exaggerating, for instance today theres only ONE early access game on the front page, accross all the flash sales, community choices and daily deals, plus complaining about early access taking a spot on the daily deals is in my opinion, like complaining about kingdoms of amalur taking a spot "i dont like kingdoms of amalur, the game is taking a spot other GOOD games could take", see?

How do you not understand this? Not liking a game because of its mechanics is way different from not liking an entire business practice. Its not about whatever particular game you happen to like is Early Access. Its not about the game at all. Its about EARLY ACCESS. Specifically relating to this topic its about Early Access when it comes to sales. Do you really think an early access game should be put up for a sale? Isn't the point of Early Access to help the devs? Why would you want to give them less money in that case? You just ignored my whole DayZ example where the backers where told they are getting the game at half price for backing it and its not going to be any lower until after the game comes out. Lo and behold, the sale that just happened made it cheaper than the backers price.

Then theres the whole point of a game not released yet given spot light when theres already thousands of games that have released properly that deserve the spotlight. The main sale is what the majority of people see and whats given the most attention so thats the part that really matters. We shouldn't see these games there. If they have to be on sale then they can be put in the community choice OR what I think is the best option, they can just be put on sale not on the front page and if people are interested in Early Access they can go to the Early Access tab and look for games they want to support.

Also at the time of my previous posts I was not exaggerating. Up until today there have been 1/3 of the titles on Early Access on the main sale. You can go back and look. I can't see the future and had no way of knowing only 1 would be on sale today. Hence why I said I dont like the way this is going.

I would just like to reiterate one of my previous points as well. The fact that some Early Access titles do well are not indicative of Early Access doing well. The reason those games do well is there is a lack of those types of games in the market and people are interested in the idea of the game. Early Access does nothing to change that. In fact it might hurt it. I dont think Early Access is in the best interest of the industry and many people share that opinion. The system is entirely to easy to abuse and you are putting to much trust in the hands of people that have done nothing to deserve it. That doesnt mean the traditional Publisher/Dev system is perfect but I do think its a hell of a lot better than this.

1) the vast mayority of the titles on sale are not early access

2) people buy em, theres market for them, they have as much right to be sold at a discount as any other game

3) i didnt comment on DAYZ because i really dont know where the devs said such thing, im not being sarcastic i really dont know

4) why you insist on talking about dailies, yes they are a big deal, so as flash sales, and the big mayority of games that were put on a flash sale werent early access

5) i compared your complains to my kingdoms example because its just an arbitrary reason for not buying a product, thats all, and its great if you dont like a product for an arbitrary reason, its perfectly fine, your decision, but theres clearly a lot of people who dont share it, let them have their games, while you have yours

 

[The Goat Tsar]

Regardless of your position on early access games, I think we can all agree that Orion: Dino Horde being on sale again is ridiculous. This is the third time it's been on sale during the summer sale, and it was also 90% off right before the summer sale, and I think it was 90% off a month before that as well. It's taking a spot that a less awful game should fill.

 

[AmberSword]

Regardless of your position on early access games, I think we can all agree that Orion: Dino Horde being on sale again is ridiculous. This is the third time it's been on sale during the summer sale, and it was also 90% off right before the summer sale, and I think it was 90% off a month before that as well. It's taking a spot that a less awful game should fill.

Agreed, even before the summer sales its been on repeated daily/weekend deals for 90% off forever, I'd really prefer if they didn't pull this kind of shit.

On another note, EVERYONE PLEASE VOTE 4X!!! PLEASE~~~Pretty please~~~~~!!!!

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Regardless of your position on early access games, I think we can all agree that Orion: Dino Horde being on sale again is ridiculous. This is the third time it's been on sale during the summer sale, and it was also 90% off right before the summer sale, and I think it was 90% off a month before that as well. It's taking a spot that a less awful game should fill.

Agreed, even before the summer sales its been on repeated daily/weekend deals for 90% off forever, I'd really prefer if they didn't pull this kind of shit.

On another note, EVERYONE PLEASE VOTE 4X!!! PLEASE~~~Pretty please~~~~~!!!!

hah funny thing, I remember you mentioning wanting to get civ V possibly so I put my vote in that for that reason I highly recommend getting the complete edition since it has all the expansions and everything wrapped into one package (gods and kings and brave new world are the main two, but the other ones are nice for all the civilizations and stuff.)

it's tougher to appreciate the differences the expansion packs make since you're getting them all at once, but brave new world made the game leaps and bounds more fun (with just gods and kings installed I felt the AI was bloody ruthless and always chose to go to war against you if it smelled even a molecule of weakness on your civilization, brave new world fixed that to the point there have been entire games go by where I didn't go to war with a single person if I played right.)

 

[Ragnar47183]

1) the vast mayority of the titles on sale are not early access

Great its a good thing that wasn't my point and isnt related to what I was talking about.

2) people buy em, theres market for them, they have as much right to be sold at a discount as any other game

Again thats not my point either. Go ahead and discount them if you want. It doesnt effect me any. Just keep them off the main page and the main sale.

3) i didnt comment on DAYZ because i really dont know where the devs said such thing, im not being sarcastic i really dont know

Basically Dayz has an increasing price during development. It started at 30 i think for kickstarter backers and will be 60 when its released. They promised the kickstarter backers that they wouldnt lower the price from 30 until much after 1.0 release as a thank you to the backers.

The sale put it at like $26-27 which pissed a lot of people off.

4) why you insist on talking about dailies, yes they are a big deal, so as flash sales, and the big mayority of games that were put on a flash sale werent early access

If you look at any kind of media, the first and biggest always get the most views/clicks. When people do google searches they usually only click the first 3 links on the natural results, when people shop steams sale the same thing happens. The 9 titles on the top are given the most attention and given the most clicks.

Just look at the sales chart for them compared to flash sales or community choice. There is always a huge spike in sales when the daily deals get put up and it slowly declines. There are a few spikes every 8 hours when the flash and community sales hit but they never get nearly as high as the main deals.

So yes dailies matter a lot more.

5) i compared your complains to my kingdoms example because its just an arbitrary reason for not buying a product, thats all, and its great if you dont like a product for an arbitrary reason, its perfectly fine, your decision, but theres clearly a lot of people who dont share it, let them have their games, while you have yours

Not agreeing with a crap business practice is not an 'arbitrary reason'. Would you tell all of the people that boycott things like Duck Dynasty for its homophobic stance that they dont support the show because of arbitrary reasons?

It has nothing to do with the specific game. I dont care if its a good game like KSP or a shit one like Earth 2066.

Also like I said before, (at least in this particular argument) I am not saying take Early Access off Steam. I am simply saying take them off the Daily Deals. They can still be on sale for all I care but keep them either in the Early Access tab in the store or at most, the community deals. I dont think this is a particularly radical stance and I dont see how that would hurt anyone involved. It would seem to be the better option in my opinion.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

1) the vast mayority of the titles on sale are not early access

Great its a good thing that wasn't my point and isnt related to what I was talking about.

2) people buy em, theres market for them, they have as much right to be sold at a discount as any other game

Again thats not my point either. Go ahead and discount them if you want. It doesnt effect me any. Just keep them off the main page and the main sale.

3) i didnt comment on DAYZ because i really dont know where the devs said such thing, im not being sarcastic i really dont know

Basically Dayz has an increasing price during development. It started at 30 i think for kickstarter backers and will be 60 when its released. They promised the kickstarter backers that they wouldnt lower the price from 30 until much after 1.0 release as a thank you to the backers.

The sale put it at like $26-27 which pissed a lot of people off.

4) why you insist on talking about dailies, yes they are a big deal, so as flash sales, and the big mayority of games that were put on a flash sale werent early access

If you look at any kind of media, the first and biggest always get the most views/clicks. When people do google searches they usually only click the first 3 links on the natural results, when people shop steams sale the same thing happens. The 9 titles on the top are given the most attention and given the most clicks.

Just look at the sales chart for them compared to flash sales or community choice. There is always a huge spike in sales when the daily deals get put up and it slowly declines. There are a few spikes every 8 hours when the flash and community sales hit but they never get nearly as high as the main deals.

So yes dailies matter a lot more.

5) i compared your complains to my kingdoms example because its just an arbitrary reason for not buying a product, thats all, and its great if you dont like a product for an arbitrary reason, its perfectly fine, your decision, but theres clearly a lot of people who dont share it, let them have their games, while you have yours

Not agreeing with a crap business practice is not an 'arbitrary reason'. Would you tell all of the people that boycott things like Duck Dynasty for its homophobic stance that they dont support the show because of arbitrary reasons?

It has nothing to do with the specific game. I dont care if its a good game like KSP or a shit one like Earth 2066.

Also like I said before, (at least in this particular argument) I am not saying take Early Access off Steam. I am simply saying take them off the Daily Deals. They can still be on sale for all I care but keep them either in the Early Access tab in the store or at most, the community deals. I dont think this is a particularly radical stance and I dont see how that would hurt anyone involved. It would seem to be the better option in my opinion.

is not a crap business practice, heres what you can do, buy an early access game, one of the many many many that are sold cheaper than its eventual release price, and of course, make sure the devs will finish the game

now, never play it, not even once, until release day, there, you didnt give the devs feedback, and you got your game cheap

be angry if you want about a business practice that doesnt affect you in any way shape or form, but you dont have to participate on it, your anger in the end, is completely pointless

I dont think this is a particularly radical stance and I dont see how that would hurt anyone involved. It would seem to be the better option in my opinion.

each it hurts the early access devs cuz they get less sales, people can miss out on early access deals they might be interested on, if these games didnt sell, youd have an argument

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you, all because of an arbitrary reason, no different from say, saying FPS shouldnt be featured on the dailies because it only helps the overbloated FPS genre, or that games with DLC shouldnt be featured either because you dont agree with the idea of DLC


also yes, boycotting something because of what the people behind it think, its arbitrary

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arbitrary

 

[Ragnar47183]

is not a crap business practice, heres what you can do, buy an early access game, one of the many many many that are sold cheaper than its eventual release price, and of course, make sure the devs will finish the game

How exactly is the consumer supposed to "make sure the devs will finish the game?" Thats one of the biggest problems the system has. If you are willing to buy an Early Access game an wait for it to finish, why not wait until its finished and goes on sale again to be even cheaper than that? The are only 3 reasons a sane person would buy Early Access. 1)To support devs they like, 2)to support an idea they want to see, or 3)They have no patience and want to play the game now.

No one buys Early Access to get the game cheaper. That doesn't make sense.

now, never play it, not even once, until release day, there, you didnt give the devs feedback, and you got your game cheap

Or you wait until its released and get it even cheaper than that.

be unhappy if you want about a business practice that doesnt affect you in any way shape or form, but you dont have to participate on it, and that truthly baffles me

Its getting a little ridiculous to have to repeat myself so much. I have already explained how it effects me. Please read the replies posted before.

each it hurts the early access devs cuz they get less sales, people can miss out on early access deals they might be interested on, if these games didnt sell, youd have an argument

It hurts the devs? How would keeping the Early Access games off the main page hurt the devs? They are supposed to get less sales than a finished game (of similar quality) because THEIR GAME ISNT DONE. That money is only supposed to support them to the release not make them profit.

The video game industry is the only place I have seen something like this happening. In no other industry would you see the consumers funding the idea of a product without any rules for basic practices. Nothing is stopping devs from not finishing their games. If valve would get their shit together and regulate the Early Access program and actually come up with rules that they enforce then I could see Early Access becoming acceptable. In its current state however, its laughable that people support something like this.

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you

Care to tell me HOW it would?

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you, all because of an arbitrary reason, no different from say, saying FPS shouldnt be featured on the dailies because it only helps the overbloated FPS genre, or that games with DLC shouldnt be featured either because you dont agree with the idea of DLC

also yes, boycotting something because of what the people behind it think, its arbitrary

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arbitrary

Methinks you need to reread that definition brother.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

is not a crap business practice, heres what you can do, buy an early access game, one of the many many many that are sold cheaper than its eventual release price, and of course, make sure the devs will finish the game

How exactly is the consumer supposed to "make sure the devs will finish the game?" Thats one of the biggest problems the system has. If you are willing to buy an Early Access game an wait for it to finish, why not wait until its finished and goes on sale again to be even cheaper than that? The are only 3 reasons a sane person would buy Early Access. 1)To support devs they like, 2)to support an idea they want to see, or 3)They have no patience and want to play the game now.

No one buys Early Access to get the game cheaper. That doesn't make sense.

show me proof they dont

and hell regardless you just provided 3 valid reasons for early access, why keep complaining?

now, never play it, not even once, until release day, there, you didnt give the devs feedback, and you got your game cheap

Or you wait until its released and get it even cheaper than that.

that too, you have options

be unhappy if you want about a business practice that doesnt affect you in any way shape or form, but you dont have to participate on it, and that truthly baffles me

Its getting a little ridiculous to have to repeat myself so much. I have already explained how it effects me. Please read the replies posted before.

i didnt see any of that, please explain again

each it hurts the early access devs cuz they get less sales, people can miss out on early access deals they might be interested on, if these games didnt sell, youd have an argument

It hurts the devs? How would keeping the Early Access games off the main page hurt the devs? They are supposed to get less sales than a finished game (of similar quality) because THEIR GAME ISNT DONE. That money is only supposed to support them to the release not make them profit.

who are you to say whats supposed and whats not supposed to be?

The video game industry is the only place I have seen something like this happening. In no other industry would you see the consumers funding the idea of a product without any rules for basic practices. Nothing is stopping devs from not finishing their games. If valve would get their shit together and regulate the Early Access program and actually come up with rules that they enforce then I could see Early Access becoming acceptable. In its current state however, its laughable that people support something like this.

https://www.kickstarter.com/

i do agree valve is too lenient right now, but the idea of early access isnt bad

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you

Care to tell me HOW it would?

theres a LOT of people waiting for deals on certain early access games, DayZ was among the best selling games even with its tiny 15% off discount, planetary annihilation is the second best selling game on steam right now, all the people right now who are buying these games, might not be aware these discounts exist on these games if there werent on the front page

when this stuff start selling less than the likes of metal gear and tomb raider, being more expensive than either, then you can argue people dont want early access, or are not interested in early access deals, but right now, if you ban early access games from being featured in daily sales, you screw over customers who want to dip into these games once they get a good discount and you screw over devs, making them lose potential sales

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you, all because of an arbitrary reason, no different from say, saying FPS shouldnt be featured on the dailies because it only helps the overbloated FPS genre, or that games with DLC shouldnt be featured either because you dont agree with the idea of DLC

also yes, boycotting something because of what the people behind it think, its arbitrary

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arbitrary

Methinks you need to reread that definition brother.

"subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision."

yeah that sounds about right

you are not arguing agaisnt early access because people dont want it, or because those games dont sell, taking valueable front page spots from other games, you are arguing agaisnt early access because you dont like early access, as simple as that

 

[cthulhuspawn82]

I still haven't purchased any games yet this sale. The two games I were thinking about were Age of Wonders 3 and Fallen Enchantress Legendary Heroes. Both have been up for a community pick, and both failed.

The whole community pick thing is stupid. Why screw people over? There is no reason not to put all 8 games on sale. What is worse is that, because of the community picks, I probably will not buy the 2 games I was looking at. The difference between what they are now and what they would have been is $15, which means buying them would be the equivalent of setting $15 on fire. I just cant do that.

But I look at it in a positive light. I have saved myself $28 from those games not going on community sale. Its just so sad to hear all the jokes about "protect your wallet" and realizing I haven't purchased one game yet, and might not at all.

 

[AmberSword]

hah funny thing, I remember you mentioning wanting to get civ V possibly so I put my vote in that for that reason I highly recommend getting the complete edition since it has all the expansions and everything wrapped into one package (gods and kings and brave new world are the main two, but the other ones are nice for all the civilizations and stuff.)

it's tougher to appreciate the differences the expansion packs make since you're getting them all at once, but brave new world made the game leaps and bounds more fun (with just gods and kings installed I felt the AI was bloody ruthless and always chose to go to war against you if it smelled even a molecule of weakness on your civilization, brave new world fixed that to the point there have been entire games go by where I didn't go to war with a single person if I played right.)

Thanks for that man, every little vote counts, you have my gratitude.
I did an extensive amount of research and also played through the demo for Civ 5, since this is my first time considering a 4X game. I did read about hyper aggressive warmonger AI, and that the 2 expansions (namely Gods & Kings and BNW) completely changed the game, with the general consensus seeming to be for the better. I've heard of some conflicts between the 2 main expansions though, I'm not sure what its about, but just the demo got me sucked into it figuring out everything by myself and playing through to the limit in one sitting, so I think this is definitely the game for me.

 

[Ragnar47183]

is not a crap business practice, heres what you can do, buy an early access game, one of the many many many that are sold cheaper than its eventual release price, and of course, make sure the devs will finish the game

How exactly is the consumer supposed to "make sure the devs will finish the game?" Thats one of the biggest problems the system has. If you are willing to buy an Early Access game an wait for it to finish, why not wait until its finished and goes on sale again to be even cheaper than that? The are only 3 reasons a sane person would buy Early Access. 1)To support devs they like, 2)to support an idea they want to see, or 3)They have no patience and want to play the game now.

No one buys Early Access to get the game cheaper. That doesn't make sense.

show me proof they dont

and hell regardless you just provided 3 valid reasons for early access, why keep complaining?

Proof? How about logic? If someone is looking for the game cheap they would not buy the game during Early Access. They would be the game when its cheaper months or years after its been released. (If it ever gets released)

I gave 3 reasons, doesnt make them valid. Also thanks for ignoring the whole make sure the devs finish the games bit.

now, never play it, not even once, until release day, there, you didnt give the devs feedback, and you got your game cheap

Or you wait until its released and get it even cheaper than that.

that too, you have options

Yep.

be unhappy if you want about a business practice that doesnt affect you in any way shape or form, but you dont have to participate on it, and that truthly baffles me

Its getting a little ridiculous to have to repeat myself so much. I have already explained how it effects me. Please read the replies posted before.

i didnt see any of that, please explain again

Im not going to retype the whole argument just because you to lazy to go back and read.

each it hurts the early access devs cuz they get less sales, people can miss out on early access deals they might be interested on, if these games didnt sell, youd have an argument

It hurts the devs? How would keeping the Early Access games off the main page hurt the devs? They are supposed to get less sales than a finished game (of similar quality) because THEIR GAME ISNT DONE. That money is only supposed to support them to the release not make them profit.

who are you to say whats supposed and whats not supposed to be?

I could ask you the same think couldn't I? Also thanks again for ignoring the post.

The video game industry is the only place I have seen something like this happening. In no other industry would you see the consumers funding the idea of a product without any rules for basic practices. Nothing is stopping devs from not finishing their games. If valve would get their shit together and regulate the Early Access program and actually come up with rules that they enforce then I could see Early Access becoming acceptable. In its current state however, its laughable that people support something like this.

https://www.kickstarter.com/

i do agree valve is too lenient right now, but the idea of early access isnt bad

The idea of a lot of things arent bad, ideas dont count for crap though. The only thing that matters is execution.

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you

Care to tell me HOW it would?

theres a LOT of people waiting for deals on certain early access games, DayZ was among the best selling games even with its tiny 15% off discount, planetary annihilation is the second best selling game on steam right now, all the people right now who are buying these games, might not be aware these discounts exist on these games if there werent on the front page

Dayz was on the top sellers because it was in the main sale yesterday. Its 42nd right now. Look at the top sales. All 9 of the games on the main sale are in the top 20. 8 of the games are in the top 8. This is exactly the thing I am saying is bad when it comes to Early Access.

when this stuff start selling less than the likes of metal gear and tomb raider, being more expensive than either, then you can argue people dont want early access, or are not interested in early access deals, but right now, if you ban early access games from being featured in daily sales, you screw over customers who want to dip into these games once they get a good discount and you screw over devs, making them lose potential sales

It already sells less and is more expensive so idk what you mean by this.

in the end your solution, would affect everyone else far more than it would benefit you, all because of an arbitrary reason, no different from say, saying FPS shouldnt be featured on the dailies because it only helps the overbloated FPS genre, or that games with DLC shouldnt be featured either because you dont agree with the idea of DLC

also yes, boycotting something because of what the people behind it think, its arbitrary

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arbitrary

Methinks you need to reread that definition brother.

"subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion: an arbitrary decision."

yeah that sounds about right

You have trouble with words huh? Let me link anther description of it worded differently for you.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary

Glad I could help.

you are not arguing agaisnt early access because people dont want it, or because those games dont sell, taking valueable front page spots from other games, you are arguing agaisnt early access because you dont like early access, as simple as that

Sure I am doing that if you dont bother reading what iv'e said. Im not going to keep replying if you don't bother to read my posts man.

 

[AmberSword]

You know guys, I have an idea, why don't you 2 start a Poll about Early Access games being on sale and we could all discuss that there?

 

[Ragnar47183]

hah funny thing, I remember you mentioning wanting to get civ V possibly so I put my vote in that for that reason I highly recommend getting the complete edition since it has all the expansions and everything wrapped into one package (gods and kings and brave new world are the main two, but the other ones are nice for all the civilizations and stuff.)

it's tougher to appreciate the differences the expansion packs make since you're getting them all at once, but brave new world made the game leaps and bounds more fun (with just gods and kings installed I felt the AI was bloody ruthless and always chose to go to war against you if it smelled even a molecule of weakness on your civilization, brave new world fixed that to the point there have been entire games go by where I didn't go to war with a single person if I played right.)

Thanks for that man, every little vote counts, you have my gratitude.
I did an extensive amount of research and also played through the demo for Civ 5, since this is my first time considering a 4X game. I did read about hyper aggressive warmonger AI, and that the 2 expansions (namely Gods & Kings and BNW) completely changed the game, with the general consensus seeming to be for the better. I've heard of some conflicts between the 2 main expansions though, I'm not sure what its about, but just the demo got me sucked into it figuring out everything by myself and playing through to the limit in one sitting, so I think this is definitely the game for me.

Already have all 8 games so I voted 4x for you as well. Be prepared to spend hours of your life on this game. Remember to set an alarm to remind you to go to bed and not spend all night playing it.

Good luck.

 

[Ragnar47183]

You know guys, I have an idea, why don't you 2 start a Poll about Early Access games being on sale and we could all discuss that there?

Would be pointless. The sample size isn't big enough. Its alright though I think im done. He doesn't seem to really read what I write so I won't bother.

 

[AmberSword]

You know guys, I have an idea, why don't you 2 start a Poll about Early Access games being on sale and we could all discuss that there?

Would be pointless. The sample size isn't big enough. Its alright though I think im done. He doesn't seem to really read what I write so I won't bother.

I think I know how Steam can solve the problem of the vets already having most if not all of the games on sale, they usually only discount the very popular ones, so why not dedicate a section to seldom bought/ less popular/ cult classics and the like? That would require QA from Valve to make sure pure shite doesn't go on sale though... because games like these often don't even have a meta-critic score, so I guess that won't work.

Going around the internet I see a lot of people already having everything on the sales list, that's quite a pity.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Proof? How about logic? If someone is looking for the game cheap they would not buy the game during Early Access. They would be the game when its cheaper months or years after its been released. (If it ever gets released)

I gave 3 reasons, doesnt make them valid. Also thanks for ignoring the whole make sure the devs finish the games bit.

so the people buying the stick of truth right now dont want the game cheap because it might get cheaper later on?

Im not going to retype the whole argument just because you to lazy to go back and read.

you could try contributing to the discussion more you know? atleast copy-pasting this "argument" of yours, when i tell you i didnt see it, i mean i dont know which part of your previous psots is supposed to be this argument agaisnt early access

I could ask you the same think couldn't I? Also thanks again for ignoring the post.

im not arguing early access games should sell more or less than standard releases, you are the one arguing they should sell less, and if thats the case then you better find a better argument than "i think so", because valve, customers and the devs dont think so, and if theres anybody who should be able to tell if a game sells or not its them

The idea of a lot of things arent bad, ideas dont count for crap though. The only thing that matters is execution.

is the execution bad tough?

arent these games selling? arent these games improving? arent customers happy?

just because something can be improved doesnt mean its bad

Dayz was on the top sellers because it was in the main sale yesterday. Its 42nd right now. Look at the top sales. All 9 of the games on the main sale are in the top 20. 8 of the games are in the top 8. This is exactly the thing I am saying is bad when it comes to Early Access.

the game has been a best seller for months, it sold like a million during its first month, you cant possibly argue it sold well merely because of the spotlight

all of the 9 games on the main sale also have deep discounts, maybe that is also making a difference dont you think?

It already sells less and is more expensive so idk what you mean by this.

what?

http://i60.tinypic.com/2i3u5d.png

You have trouble with words huh? Let me link anther description of it worded differently for you.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arbitrary

Glad I could help.

"based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something"

you are in no position to act condescending

Sure I am doing that if you dont bother reading what iv'e said. Im not going to keep replying if you don't bother to read my posts man.

be my guest then, dont reply


im fact ill do the first step and stop responding to your post from now on, its clear you are eager to ignore any evidence that contradicts your arguments, you are not even willing to discuss properly and now you are just being rude

just let me finish with this, early access sells, its just just a matter of frontpage spotlight, otherwise RPG maker wouldve sold more, and these games wouldnt outsell standard releases, people want these games and they have the right to exist and have sales like every other game, think about that tomorrow if another early access game gets featured as a daily deal

 

[Ragnar47183]

You know guys, I have an idea, why don't you 2 start a Poll about Early Access games being on sale and we could all discuss that there?

Would be pointless. The sample size isn't big enough. Its alright though I think im done. He doesn't seem to really read what I write so I won't bother.

I think I know how Steam can solve the problem of the vets already having most if not all of the games on sale, they usually only discount the very popular ones, so why not dedicate a section to seldom bought/ less popular/ cult classics and the like? That would require QA from Valve to make sure pure shite doesn't go on sale though... because games like these often don't even have a meta-critic score, so I guess that won't work.

Going around the internet I see a lot of people already having everything on the sales list, that's quite a pity.

Thats not a bad idea but Valve doesnt want to do any kind of moderation. If they would moderate Early Access and the like then a lot of problems would be solved.

There are a lot of lesser known game that are discounted right now they just arent on the main page. I think TB said he is going to do a video on some of the best deals for those so keep an eye out for that.