Steam vs Origin (EULA, privacy and whatnot)

[Tayh]

If you'll excuse me, I'm just gonna leave this here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

Since so many seem to like to throw that word around so much, I figured it was time they actually learned what it means. Especially given the often misapplication of the term.

Hello.

Doesn't matter how big and bad the competitors to STEAM are/aren't it still isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is where you are the sole controller of an industry; if STEAM had a monopoly it would be the only digital distributor and not just one of them. No competition period because they force the others out. Of course monopolies aren't good things but crack a 4th grade social studies text book mate.

A monopoly is defined by being the sole controller of a resource, in this case, games.
Please left me know where I can find a copy, of the following games, that does NOT require steam to install and run:
Fallout: New Vegas
Civilization 5
Saints Row 2/3
Skyrim
Metro 2033
Dead Island
You can't? Oh, that' what I thought.
Valve currently has monopoly on distributing and leasing all of the above games.
... And that's a very narrow selection of games that I am/was interested in.
Sure, you can still buy the games from an alternative digital distributor, or even buy a physical copy, but you will still be forced to install and run steam everytime you want to play said game.
THAT, is what I don't like.

 

[Vigormortis]

If you'll excuse me, I'm just gonna leave this here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

Since so many seem to like to throw that word around so much, I figured it was time they actually learned what it means. Especially given the often misapplication of the term.

Hello.

Doesn't matter how big and bad the competitors to STEAM are/aren't it still isn't a monopoly. A monopoly is where you are the sole controller of an industry; if STEAM had a monopoly it would be the only digital distributor and not just one of them. No competition period because they force the others out. Of course monopolies aren't good things but crack a 4th grade social studies text book mate.

A monopoly is defined by being the sole controller of a resource, in this case, games.
Please left me know where I can find a copy, of the following games, that does NOT require steam to install and run:
Fallout: New Vegas
Civilization 5
Saints Row 2/3
Skyrim
Metro 2033
Dead Island
You can't? Oh, that' what I thought.
Valve currently has monopoly on distributing and leasing all of the above games.
... And that's a very narrow selection of games that I am/was interested in.
Sure, you can still buy the games from an alternative digital distributor, or even buy a physical copy, but you will still be forced to install and run steam everytime you want to play said game.
THAT, is what I don't like.

I'm sorry, but you're kidding right? You list a few games and use that as proof of your point? Too rich.

By that logic, Microsoft has a monopoly on the console market because it has several dozen exclusives that can only be played on it's console. Or like saying Nintendo has a monopoly on the console market because it's sold more consoles then the others.

Failed logic, in either case. Steam is a digital distribution platform. As are GOG, Direct 2 Drive, and iTunes. They all distribute software. (regardless of type and intent)

However, in the example above, if anything would qualify as a monopoly in the DD service industry, it's iTunes. Especially when one takes into account the Appstore. Pretty sure more software is sold through, and exclusive to, those platforms then there is through Steam. Even so, I wouldn't call iTunes a monopoly.

I think someone needs to read this again: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

[edit] You know what? You're right. Come to think of it, I've never played a Valve game on anything but Steam. My God! VALVE HAS A MONOPOLY ON VALVE GAMES!! It all makes sense now!

 

[survivor686]

So...In the end would it be worth it to run Origin in a Sandbox? That way I can best of both worlds?

Ideas?

 

[Tayh]

I'm sorry, but you're kidding right? You list a few games and use that as proof of your point? Too rich.
-snip-
I think someone needs to read this again: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

[edit] You know what? You're right. Come to think of it, I've never played a Valve game on anything but Steam. My God! VALVE HAS A MONOPOLY ON VALVE GAMES!! It all makes sense now!

Thank you for not reading my post and dodging the arguments and points I made.
You are a true credit to steam fans everywhere.

 

[Laughing Man]

Thank you for not reading my post and dodging the arguments and points I made.
You are a true credit to steam fans everywhere.

The problem is you seem to have gotten lost in what point you're trying to make, what Monopoly, exactly, does Steam have? The point your post seems to be trying to highlight is that Steam has a Monopoly on DRM because that's basically what you are saying, you REQUIRE Steam to run those games and in that role Steam is acting as DRM, nothing more.

So we can already tell you that your point is flawed because

1). Over half those games are available on console, infact a quick check shows only two of them are PC exclusive, so there's your non Steam alternative right there.
2). The DRM market is choke full of alternatives to Steam, I would go and find the link on Wiki showing just how many forms of DRM are out there but Wiki is down today (thanks SOPA.)

An alternative way of putting your argument is to imagine that Metro and Civ 5 used Securom as it's DRM. Would you be complaining that Securom had a monopoly because you HAD to use it to run those games?

 

[Furtled]

So...In the end would it be worth it to run Origin in a Sandbox? That way I can best of both worlds?
Ideas?

You can run it sandboxed (despite the fact BioWare banned people discussing it over on their forums), Sandboxie [http://www.sandboxie.com/] have confirmed Battlefield 3 runs fine sandboxed, just make sure you set it up properly.

 

[MrTub]

I have to admit, both look vague and non-threatening, of course that might be due to a good lawyer.

Yes, but we like Steam, so it's good.

We hate EA, so Origin is bad.

QFT

It's kinda annoying that people still insist that origin is OMGFUCKNGSPYWARE!!#"!"#!" When it not really that big difference between origin and Steam (except owners)

People were right at the start but Origin changed their EULA very fast so I do not really see it as a problem anymore.

 

[Zer_]

Um...pretty sure that's not true. I just recently played Half-Life 2, Team Fortress 2, and Left 4 Dead 2 in offline mode. You can play pretty much any game on Steam in offline mode. Except, of course, for the MMOs.

Well I'll be damned. I wonder how long it's been since they took that block off.

It's been there for ~4 years or more... People just don't do any research on troubleshooting issues with Offline mode BEFORE they're force to use it.

Seriously people, go read this [https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555] before bitching about Offline Mode on Steam. Once you have followed all those steps, you can essentially pull out your Network Cable and Steam will automatically revert to Offline Mode.

Also, whenever Steam conducts a Hardware Survey, they ask my permission before allowing any information to be transferred.

 

[A-D.]

The difference between Origin and Steam is that, when Steam came out, it was a pile of shit. Has to be said, you cant get around that, close your Eyes, plug your Ears and sing really loud. It just wasnt that good. But they worked on it, they fixed Stuff, and then later made it into a Distribution Platform. At first it was just for their Games, not intended to sell us Games like Bastion or any non-Valve title.

Now when Origin came out, well okay, when the EA Download Manager as Origin was used to be called came out, it was a Method of DRM/DLC Selling Tool. In fact, Sims 3 used it for example. Anyone remember their Sims 3 Store? Thats what Origin is for. The Problem is, it was always intended as a sort of distribution Platform, again only for Games made by EA, or Developers owned by EA rather. Now think about it.

Steam was made as a Simple tool to combine all your Games into a single Program for easy Access to Valve Games and act as a Multiplayer/DRM Thing. For example, Steam replaced CS 1.5 and prior online Services. They moved to using it a distribution Platform and Marketplace basicly much later, after it actually worked fine enough. EA made their Download Manager, or Origin now, with the single Intent to sell you Stuff. And its not good at it. Its buggy, its intrusive, its just..crap really. It wasnt adapted to be that, so you cant really excuse it, can you?

Thats the mainissue. Steam has worked fine for years for People, still does. Now EA is jumping on the Bandwagon and to be fair, Valve needs Competition. Not because they give us any kind of crappy Deals or anything, but if Valve was just left to its own devices, its strong Position in the Market, it would end up basicly what EA is already and thats not a good Thought.

The EULA was worked over after the Outcry by EA, but the Program wasnt patched, it still does and is capable of doing perfectly what they had said it can do to begin with. Now you gotta give EA credit for being honest, they told you outright they were trying to screw you over.

And for People who seem to have a Problem understanding what a Monopoly is, its a Fact that a single Provider has a Irongrip over the whole Industry. Steam does not have a Monopoly, they are not the only Option for DRM, Digital Distribution or anything. You can still buy Games in the usual Stores in town, or use other Outlets like GOG and Direct2Drive. If Steam had a Monopoly in any form, it would be the ONLY Distributor of Games or a functioning DRM Method that everyone was FORCED to use. In fact EA is not asking you to use Origin, its forcing you. Either you install it or you dont get to play at all. Thats in simple terms trying to create a Monopoly. Get it straight.

 

[Kvaedi]

Origin is made of evil. Steam is made of everything that is good in the universe.

Ok, on a serious note now, Steam is filled with great games that you can get at low prices, from brand new releases which you can have installed and ready to go before anyone else even gets home with their physical copy, and to old games you couldn't hope to find anywhere else without hours of searching. It isn't intrusive, the most annoying thing it does is display all your friends and clans spam while you're playing, but that can all be disabled.

Origin is almost the exact opposite of that. It has EA games. The most annoying things Origin does are strangling your system while trying to rip its secrets out, and crashing while you're playing so it can kick you out of the game. Also, it's EA. That makes it lose a point to start with, even if it was the greatest thing to ever exist, but, unfortunately, it's not. It exists just because Steam wouldn't lick their boots enough.

I'll even say it now, I didn't like Steam when it first came out. Now, it's my favorite way to get games. It's great. It wasn't always as good as it is now, but they changed it, and that's the biggest difference right there: when EA gets complaints, they laugh that their evil plans are coming to fruition.

 

[Rack]

Call it double standards but I'll give my girlfriend a key to my apartment, I won't give it to the creepy guy who's always fingering his knife collection.

 

[Something Amyss]

People were right at the start but Origin changed their EULA very fast so I do not really see it as a problem anymore.

A lot of people still insist that the old EULA is still the one you have to agree to.

I think people just want a reason to hate Origin.

As a primarily console gamer, I don't feel the need for another client on my computer. Steam is enough and more comprehensive, so any PC game is probably going through them. But hating Origin or EA for Origin is a bit much for me.

 

[Kvaedi]

Call it double standards but I'll give my girlfriend a key to my apartment, I won't give it to the creepy guy who's always fingering his knife collection.

But that creepy guy has a copy of Mass Effect 3! All you have to do to get it is let him look through your house and stab a few things first! It's totally worth it!

 

[Steve the Pocket]

Call it double standards but I'll give my girlfriend a key to my apartment, I won't give it to the creepy guy who's always fingering his knife collection.

Not an actual opinion about Valve vs. EA, but it's funny you should mention a knife collection because Gabe Newell's is legendary.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

I really don't mind competition, but at the same time I'd really rather have all of my games on one service rather than having it spread out. The annoying thing is some games on Origin are exclusive. I can see why they did that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't inconvenience me.