Steve Jobs Has Died

Recommended Videos

Clonekiller

New member
Dec 7, 2010
165
0
0
Griffolion said:
Clonekiller said:
Griffolion said:
When you decide that the prettiness of your product is more important than what your customers think of it, you've made a massive mistake.

Let's put this in perspective. Apple controls both the hardware and software of it's products. So for a Mac PC (yes PC, it's a personal computer) Apple need only work on getting the software stable for a very limited amount of hardware combinations. They'll source a motherboard, most likely from Foxconn, graphics from AMD, Kingston memory, Intel processor etc. So it's all great and good that Mac OS is as stable as it is (apparently, I've had more trouble with SL and Lion than I care to tell). Windows, on the other hand, is built to work with potentially billions of hardware combinations. So if it's not as stable as Mac OS that's tailored to what Apple deem worthy, then it's really no surprise, but still very pleasant that it comes damn near close.

Now, about hacking and viruses. This one's obvious, a more popular OS (Windows currently holds just shy of 90% of the PC market) will attract more hackers and virus creators, because the impact they wish to have with their efforts will be the most profound there. The great thing is, in response to this, you have excellent anti-virus companies like ESET who work to fight these, as well as Windows' built in security features. Most Mac PC users don't install AV software because "Macs don't get viruses". Yet a virus, unless it's a jokey one, will intend to stay as hidden as possible in it's machinations so you don't get rid of it. So do Macs not get viruses, or is the lack of AV software brought about from this false sense of security causing them to not be found? It's a question a pose to many a fanboy, and they never ever have a reasoned response to it (as in nothing outside the marketing hype they're fed by Cupertino).

The experts at the Genius bar are roughly a step up in IQ from a monkey. It took one of them 2 hours to put some new feet on my friends Mac Book Pro. 2 hours. And no, there wasn't a queue either. I don't know a great deal about Macs, but I reckon I could walk into that job with no training (since I build and fix PC's as a hobby anyway).

Oh and by the way, if it wasn't for Microsoft, Apple would have been a failed company right about now. So show them some respect.

Also, further regarding security of said products, see below:

http://www.tgdaily.com/security-features/58566-os-x-lion-passwords-vulnerable

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10754730

http://sworddance.com/blog/2009/08/07/mac-osx-the-most-insecure-os-around/

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Think-Vista-Is-Insecure-Have-You-Looked-at-Mac-OS-X-Lately-76848.shtml

http://www.zdnet.com.au/mac-os-x-hacked-under-30-minutes-139241748.htm

http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/apple-finally-reacts-to-diginotar-hack-39399
Nice argument. Well put together and well thought out. One flaw: people love Mac because of it's simplicity. By keeping heavy quality control, Mac is probably the easiest to use OS out there. Installing a program is a simple matter of drag-and-drop, updates and compatibility are simple, and even finding new programs is easy curtesy of the App Store (yes, free stuff is found there too). As a result, anyone that either lacks the time or technical know-how to monkey around with their computer tends to love the Mac. (IE, anyone in college or over the age of 40) Don't get me wrong, I use Windows all the time, and it is a very useful system, especially for gaming. However, the fact remains, I spend much less time fixing issues on my mac than I ever did on my windows pc.

P.S. As for the genius bar, the service is free, so who gives a darn if it took 5 minutes or 5 hours? It seems to me that if you encounter an issue with your windows pc, you can either spend the time and try to fix it yourself, or you can drop $50-150 at Office Depot and have it done for you, with not idea on how long it will take. Fact is, Genius is still the best costumer support deal offered by a computer manufacturer.

P.P.S. Of course unprotected Macs are susceptible to hacking. Any fool who thinks he's hack proof just because he's using a mac is just that, a fool. That's why most major anit-hack programs are also available for mac. However, your chances of being hacked are much lower simply because the hacking methods used to enter a windows OS are different from those used to enter a Mac. Not hack proof, but for those who lack technical know-how, hack resistant is a huge plus.
I've genuinely never heard of having to fix issues on a Windows computer; the only time I have is when a member of the family has called me and it's been a hardware problem causing the issue. I have technical know-how, but I simply never run into them. I've gotten far more frustrated using a Mac PC than I have a Windows PC because of how hard it is to use compared to Windows. And it's not just a case of unfamiliarity, it's a case of incredibly illogical design choices. But that's just me. While they've probably made it a lot easier to find and install things as you say, remember Windows Marketplace has been around for a long time before this, doing the exact same thing. The fact of the matter is, for me personally, whenever i have to use a Mac PC, I always come away from it thinking "what's the point of that, i could have done it all quicker on Windows". I'd say one of the few things I find good about Mac OS are the multi-touch gestures for the touch-pad.

PS. You need to remember that often, the Genius bar will not serve you without £60 Apple Care (at least that's what happened to my friend) and that you need to book a time with them quite far in advance. The service itself is a good idea, and probably well executed in some respects, but for a company that charge the amounts they do for their products when there are simply better things out, I actually expect the likes of Genius Bar from them. Also, if you buy a pre-build Windows machine from all the usual places, they offer warranties at the same service level and price as Apple Care. The only difference is that Dell, for instance, does not have B&M stores.

PPS. Totally agree here, but I run into a lot of Mac PC people who think exactly that. And yes there are AV systems there, I know ESET who I mentioned before have one out for them. And yes the hacking methods are different, due to the difference in the systems however I wouldn't say Mac OS is more hack resistant. According to news, quite the opposite. When I made people aware of this, they have all been quite shocked about it. I know that Windows is hack able in a multitude of respects. But this argument here is to try and stop people thinking that Mac PC's are even so much as "hack resistant" as you say. In fact, most hackers actually say that Mac OS is more insecure than Windows (see the bottom link for that).

http://www.zdnet.com.au/mac-os-x-hacked-under-30-minutes-139241748.htm

http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?newsid=3306313&pagtype=allchandate

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2011/092811-mac-os-x-lion-losing-251361.html?hpg1=bn

http://blogs.csoonline.com/1506/apples_mac_os_x_never_had_superior_security

By the way, please don't take any of this personally. I mean absolutely no dis-respect to you; however I'm aware that posting text to a forum lacks such things as tone of voice which can make the difference in thinking I'm being a douche or actually making a true argument.
No offense taken at all. It's actually quite nice to have an intelligent discussion on a forum.

I guess it boils down to personal experience. I'm the only person in my family with technical know-how. (My mom's eyes glaze over if the machine asks her a yes or no question) Since my mom teaches movie classes at school, she would do a lot of movie editing. When we were all using the Windows OS, during the school year, I would spend between 1-2 hours a week resolving issues on both her machine and mine. (I rather like to mod the games I play) However, when she got a mac, the amount of time I would spend fixing issues on her machine dropped to about 5-30 minutes depending on the week. Both of us have had our share of insolvable issues with our computers, but we have never been charged by the Genius bar for their services. (Except for hardware issues)

I have had very few bad experiences with my mac compared to the host of aggravating stories i have about my Dell. On the other hand, their are a good number of horror stories about Mac use, and one of my friends utterly despises everything that comes from Apple. I guess this is one of those things where your personal experience is king.
 

smudgey

New member
May 8, 2008
347
0
0
InterAirplay said:
I already did. But by "bad behavior" I mean "the company he was in charge of pulled off some incredible dickery". Being CEO, and being actively involved in a lot of these things, I'm pretty sure you can lay responsibility at his feet. Anyway, I'll just list the stuff right here, to make it clearer to anyone browsing the thread. Please beari n mind I'm quoting this from another source which already wrote all this.

1 Insane DRM

Apple are fairly well-known for their advocay of strict DRM on digital music, even though some statistics have shown that DRM, predictably, has no effect on piracy.

But here I'm gonna refer to the fact that Apple seem to be concerned with Digital Rights Management in regards to the software you run on your own goddamn gadgets. Buying an iPod touch or an iPhone from Apple and then using it how oyu please is apparently undesirable.

Cracking either of these devices in order to run whatever you want on the hardware you payed for which came with software you also payed for but do not want is, for some mad reason, not allowed. Attempting to do what you want with a product you own can result in a total lockdown, as Apple released updates that can identify cracked devices when connected to the internet and will automatically download themselves onto these devices in order to prevent the user from doing as they please with something they payed for, even if it is perfectly innocuous.

2 Overzealous use of... well, lawyers.

A tech Blogger named Jason O'grady posted some inside information he got a hold of on the internet regarding an Apple product. Apple, being reasonable and easygoing folks, they imediately subpoenaed his Internet Service Provider, tried to take down his website and also subpoeanaed O'Grady himself in order to find out how he got the info. O'Grady tried to get the Electronic Frontier Foundation involved, which started a whole mess of legal problems which grew bigger and bigger until it hit the state appeals court and a judge ordered Apple andJobs to cut that shit out.

Oh, and the product he leaked info on was a Garageband Firewire breakout Box, whatever the fuck that is. Not actually that surprising, when you consider the fact that Apple order their product-testers to cover up devices with cloaks even when working on them, and to turn on a red light whenever the products are uncovered to want everyone to be extra-careful.



3 The fate of the possible iPhone leak

OK, so protecting their products with secrecy may seem fair enough on paper. So it's not surprising that the possible iPhone leak, Sun Danyong, an engineer responsible for prototype work on the iPhone, was in deep sit when he accidentally lost one of the prototypes. Apple dropped the hammer on the company he worked for, who were responsible for aiding Apple's work on the iPhone, so they made his life hell. I'm not sure how bad, exactly, but this young family man threw himself from the 12th floor of his apartment building soon after.

4 Apple hates competition

Any application released via the Apple App store that duplicates the functionality of Apple or AT&T products gets the banhammer, even if it does a better job of it. This anti-competetive nature has resulted in an investigation by the FCC

5 Ad-related Supervilliany

Apple faced backlash over including their Safari browser with iTunes updates. After rescinding this... they put the Application MobileMe into another update and released it. Internet Watchdog groups accused Apple of even spreading Malware.

Anyway, after the dust had settled, an outline of a new Apple application arrived at the U.S. Patent Office. Apple's words:

"Apple can further determine whether a user pays attention to the advertisement. The determination can include performing, while the advertisement is presented, an operation that urges the user to respond; and detecting whether the user responds to the performed operation. If the response is inappropriate or nonexistent, the system will go into lock down mode in some form or other until the user complies. In the case of an iPod, the sound could be disconnected rendering it useless until compliance is met. For the iPhone, no calls will be able to be made or received."


Yeah. Jobs' name was attatched to that.

Anyway, I won't bother talking about the cold hard fact that none of the prices Apple charges for their products are reasonable, you probably already heard that one before.

I also never said fanboyism is exclusive to Apple, that's not my point. My point was that Apple charges more than their products are worth. I don't care how people view this, it's not acceptable, regardless of what OTHER companies are doing (although your examples constitute unnacceptable bullshit from those companies too, I wasn't dismissing that claim at all).

Mr.PlanetEater said:
Pray tell, do you happen to carry around your entire musical library in your pocket? Do you own a phone that is essentially a miniature computer? If you answered yes to either of those, then you ought to show a bit more respect for the death of the man who made that possible/viable.
That's a claim you may as well have carved onto the side of a solid block of horseshit with a knife made out of the sharpened bones of the tooth fairy and delivered to us in our gumdrop houses in Narnia via a flying pig, for all the credibility and factual content it has.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Child labour was used at factories that built Apple products. Factories at which working conditions are, predictably, unbearably awful. Also, The company that enginner I mentioned worked for? they later worked a "no suicide" clause into their terms of employment contracts. Apple admitted all of this, it didn't just come to light. They knew about this shit happening.
1. Apple are far from being the only company to use DRM. They weren't even the first. Look up the "Betamax Case". Or DVD decryption.

2. Pretty much every IT company around today overuses Lawyers. And is O'Grady's situation any different from Microsoft trying to subpoena Netscape employees in order to gain access to their private mailing lists?

3. In today's business world, knowledge is power. And knowing what the other guy is doing is massively valuable information. If you trusted a company to not lose a prototype, or not leak information, and they did exactly that, wouldn't you be pissed? If i fucked up at my job, i'd get sacked. If you fucked up at your job, you'd get sacked. This guy fucked up, probably got sacked (or kept his job and got given a hard time about it) and then took the cowards way out. Most people don't throw themselves off a building when their job goes to shit. They go and get another job.

4. Woah, a company hates competition? That would be hard to believe, if it wasn't for all the times Microsoft has been in shit for their anti-competetive behaviour....

5. (a) Just because a company files a patent, that doesn't mean they'll actually use that patent. They could have filed it to prevent other companies doing so, which is quite common now.
(b) Not all that different from internet ads such as the ones you're forced to watch at the start of videos, i.e. Zero Punctuation.

Damn near every company charges more than their products are worth. It's pretty hard to make a profit if you're charging less than they're worth. But if you think a company overcharges way too much, then don't buy from them. Nobody is forcing you too. Just stop whinging about it (first world problems).

As for the unacceptable use of child labour, you really think Apple is the ONLY company that uses these dodgy businesses, such as Foxconn? Intel, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Nokia are all clients, but no-one seems to care about that.
 

Korskarn

New member
Sep 9, 2008
72
0
0
InterAirplay said:
Also, The company that enginner I mentioned worked for? they later worked a "no suicide" clause into their terms of employment contracts.
So if you commit suicide, Apple will fire you?