Stormcloaks are too mainstream.

[Thyunda]

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.

1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?

2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?

3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power. Main story spoilers coming up.

Spoiler

During the peace treaty with the Imperials, he acted like a child. he kicked up a fuss because he didn't want to be in the same room as a Thalmore, and then proceeded to demand city after city to be surrendered to the Stormcloaks, whilst ranting away at the Imperials with his bile about "true sons of Skyrim". Even in the face of the total destruction of Skyrim, he continued to act like a child, and to furhter his own power.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

did you finish the stormcloak campaign?

you're just like fox news you know that ?

MASSIVE SPOILER GTFO

1. The stormcloaks are in fact a quite able bodied and organised force, they fight with imperial weapons and imperial silver till the end of their campaign
2.The stormcloaks grant people their freedom if they want to, the only reason the legion's leaders get executed is that they want to die for their cause just the same
3.THIS ONE IS IMPORTANT: Ulfric stormcloak when he wins decides that he will only be busy rebuilding skyrim as unofficial king, he will only accept the title if he is chosen in the moot
4. following up on 3 the stormcloaks start prepping skyrim for war
5. you the dragonborn are part of the stormcloak force, the stormcloaks fight like a trained army, but a trained army using guerilla tactics, their inevitable victory with you on their side in that aspect gives them the best setup to beat a strongly overpowered invader
Let me elaborate on that : the empire is like rome, a big beast of a fighting machine, the stormcloaks are like the british, the germanic tribes, no matter how hard the romans tried they always got beaten into pulp. the only difference is the stormcloaks take the fight to the imperials

Except the Romans conquered Britain and West Europe...I would make more of a comparison to the Picts v Romans or even the Swedes and the Danes, which is a more fitting comparison.

Pardon? the romans got kicked out of britain, and never advanced above nijmegen and the rivers around that lvl in europe

Speaking as an English student of Classical Civilisation, whose entire second year was devoted to studying the Roman influence on Great Britain, I have to tell you. You're very, very wrong. The Romans occupied England, Wales and the Scottish Lowlands with relative ease. Once the druids were wiped out, the Britons fell into line. Hence cities like Bath, Colchester, Cirencester, and places like Caernarvon in Wales. The Romans were never kicked out of Britain, they just left once the Empire started to overstretch.

Urgh I hate misguiding documentaries

Is that an argument at me or a justification for your own lack of subject knowledge? If it's the former, I also should point out I live in Lindum Colonia, the Roman fort of Lincoln. If it's the latter, then I will cease all hostilities, because you cannot be blamed for the inaccuracy of the source you were given.

the latter , so I apologize

Is alright. A lot of documentaries seem to be very pro-British...despite the Roman occupation was an excellent example of British apathy.

 

[Irridium]

so,

Spoiler

i actually freed the forsworn king from that mine on my lizard paladin.. i'm not quite sure what repercussions that will have yet!
( they already took one city ) it's going to cause big aaa problems isn't it..

yah, my whole post is a spoiler! lol

Same here, but for me...

Spoiler

I actually killed Madanoch and most of the others right when I broke out. I saw the situation as a "break out on your own, going through caves full of unknown dangers" or "do that with a group of meatshields". So I went with the second option, which was a good choice considering the dwenmer robots that you run encounter.

So right when I got out and got my items back, I killed most of them including Madanoch. And... none of them attacked me back. Even when I found the camp the few survivors went to, they didn't seem to mind me there.

So yeah, there's that. Not sure if I broke the game since no city has been taken, or anything different happened. What was supposed to happen after they broke out? Do they take Markath? Because they didn't in my game.

err.. so yah...

Spoiler

they do indeed, mass slaughtering ensues they just tear the town apart and sack it but whatever you do don't attack the guards they're fighting.. oh word that gets messy.
they gave me some good mage items, but i'm too far warrior / paladin build to change now.

.. /whistles..

basically pick your allies well i guess is all i can say!

Did they do it right after they broke out, or after a set amount of time?

Because if it's supposed to happen right after, then yeah I think I might have broken it...

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

I sided with Stormcloaks because I thought I was doing the right thing. I regret it. So I started a new game with a Dunmer.

 

[Outcast107]

Anyone else here read the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric?

Spoiler

He is a puppet for the Thalmor, they're using him to cripple the Empire so that the Thalmor can rush in unchallenged and defeat the whole empire. It says it plainly that he is an agent for them.

I was going to join the Stormcloaks until I saw that then I went striaght the Solitude once the quest was complete.

Just want to say your a bit confuse. He not working for them just a mere tool they have hopes that he keep fighting and drawing out the fight against the Empire. They also don't want one side to win as they said a Independent Skyrim is still pretty bad on their list.

Also your still helping the Thalmor by siding with the Empire. Who let them in the first place to build outposts?

 

[Gindaff]

I read in a book that the Thalmor want to keep Ulfric alive, to keep civil war and to continue the Empire's struggle to defeat the Stormcloaks making Skyrim weaker. But, they don't want the Stormcloaks to overcome the Empire as a reunited, independent Skyrim could challenge them. So the Thalmor are actually worried about the Stormcloaks taking rule of Skyrim.

However the point made that they're racist nationalists made me regret joining them as a dark elf, I didn't really look into their ideologies.

 

[The Lugz]

so,

Spoiler

i actually freed the forsworn king from that mine on my lizard paladin.. i'm not quite sure what repercussions that will have yet!
( they already took one city ) it's going to cause big aaa problems isn't it..

yah, my whole post is a spoiler! lol

Same here, but for me...

Spoiler

I actually killed Madanoch and most of the others right when I broke out. I saw the situation as a "break out on your own, going through caves full of unknown dangers" or "do that with a group of meatshields". So I went with the second option, which was a good choice considering the dwenmer robots that you run encounter.

So right when I got out and got my items back, I killed most of them including Madanoch. And... none of them attacked me back. Even when I found the camp the few survivors went to, they didn't seem to mind me there.

So yeah, there's that. Not sure if I broke the game since no city has been taken, or anything different happened. What was supposed to happen after they broke out? Do they take Markath? Because they didn't in my game.

err.. so yah...

Spoiler

they do indeed, mass slaughtering ensues they just tear the town apart and sack it but whatever you do don't attack the guards they're fighting.. oh word that gets messy.
they gave me some good mage items, but i'm too far warrior / paladin build to change now.

.. /whistles..

basically pick your allies well i guess is all i can say!

Did they do it right after they broke out, or after a set amount of time?

Because if it's supposed to happen right after, then yeah I think I might have broken it...

immediately, yes you get given a ton of caster gear then they go on a rampage and kill everything in sight and claim the city
( i tried going back, but they were still fighting.. so i may need to advance the plot for something to happen )

 

[SnakeoilSage]

The whole point of the Imperial/Stormcloak plot is the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. Both sides feel their view is the right one, and both sides are equally dickish in certain aspects.

1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?

The Stormcloaks are't rag-tag. They fight like Nords: a mobile army that controls the open country-side. Such armies were common centuries ago in Norse and Scottish lands. Skyrim also has a long history of fighting elves, both in defense and offense. Consider if the Stormcloak invade Aldmeri lands? They will swiftly find allies with the Bosmer and Redguard, who have suffered at the Aldmeri's hands. The Empire will likely pounce on this opportunity to push into Valenwood, and the Aldmeri will suddenly be fighting a three-front war that will tear it apart.

2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?

Ulfric seems more than capable of running a nation from my perspective. Windhelm looks like a "stony slum" becaues it's an ancient city - one of mankind's oldest - and is going to look weathered no matter how well it's maintained. I dunno where these starving people you mention are, maybe the Dunmer? Riften is pretty much controlled by Maven Black-Briar and the Thieves Guild, I'm guessing Ulfric has made a political alliance with her, and Maven in turn manipulates the Jarl into favoring Ulfric. Also consider that the Thieves Guild is in major decline in Riften at the start of the game, and I would say that "eradicating a group of pick pockts" doesn't measure highly on a future king's resume when he's got a country to overthrow.

3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power. Main story spoilers coming up.

I'm not sure where you got this from. I've played through the Stormcloak plotline and I've seen him be honest, passionate, humble, honourable, cunning, compassionate, and determined. Maybe he does crave power but he honestly believes he is doing the right thing for his country and believes in his people as much as himself.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

This is debatable. Yes, the Stormcloaks are all Nords (unless the Dragonborn joins them and is another race), but they don't seem to have a real issue with anyone but the Empire and the Talmor. Keep in mind that the Nords have always been an aggressive people, who have invaded and conquered lands in Cyrodill and Morrowind in the past. But unlike say, the Talmor, they haven't committed the acts of genocide or ethnic cleansing typical of a racially-motivated invading force.

A Nord is a Nord, and they take a fierce pride in their harsh homeland and the strength it gives them. The same is true for every race in The Elder Scrolls - each takes pride it themselves. If you went to Hammerfell and got involved with the Redguard rebels fighting the Aldmeri, you'd likely see similar pride, and we saw it in the Dunmer in Morrowind. And in that game the Dunmer were resisting Imperial encroachment on their homeland and the drastic transformation of their religion. Seeing a pattern?

Ultimately I don't believe Skyrim intends to stand alone under Ulfric. He's too clever to do something like that - he will make alliances. With Valenwood, with Hammerfell, and maybe even with the Empire. He'll do it because "Skyrim/Empire alliance" will lend strength to Skyrim's solidarity - it will make them look like a sovereign power, not just an Imperial Province.

And with those alliances the Skyrim will make their invasion of the Summerset Isles - a goal hinted at quite often by Ulfric's general Stone-Fist - all the more potent.

 

[Irridium]

so,

Spoiler

i actually freed the forsworn king from that mine on my lizard paladin.. i'm not quite sure what repercussions that will have yet!
( they already took one city ) it's going to cause big aaa problems isn't it..

yah, my whole post is a spoiler! lol

Same here, but for me...

Spoiler

I actually killed Madanoch and most of the others right when I broke out. I saw the situation as a "break out on your own, going through caves full of unknown dangers" or "do that with a group of meatshields". So I went with the second option, which was a good choice considering the dwenmer robots that you run encounter.

So right when I got out and got my items back, I killed most of them including Madanoch. And... none of them attacked me back. Even when I found the camp the few survivors went to, they didn't seem to mind me there.

So yeah, there's that. Not sure if I broke the game since no city has been taken, or anything different happened. What was supposed to happen after they broke out? Do they take Markath? Because they didn't in my game.

err.. so yah...

Spoiler

they do indeed, mass slaughtering ensues they just tear the town apart and sack it but whatever you do don't attack the guards they're fighting.. oh word that gets messy.
they gave me some good mage items, but i'm too far warrior / paladin build to change now.

.. /whistles..

basically pick your allies well i guess is all i can say!

Did they do it right after they broke out, or after a set amount of time?

Because if it's supposed to happen right after, then yeah I think I might have broken it...

immediately, yes you get given a ton of caster gear then they go on a rampage and kill everything in sight and claim the city
( i tried going back, but they were still fighting.. so i may need to advance the plot for something to happen )

Huh... I really hope I didn't inadvertently break some future quest chain...

 

[TheOddOneOut]

Its most likely from Bethesda pushing the stormcloaks as the protagonists. The opening scene has you "wrongfully" sentenced to death by Imperial soldiers and you kill like ten Imperials before you even leave Helgen. After that you are immediately sent on a quest to join the Stormcloaks.

I rolled a dunmer so a group of Aryan supermen sitting on the throne did not sit well with me. And as far as I can tell, other than the whole Talos worship thing, the only grievance the Stormcloaks seem to have with the Imperials is "their damn lists..."

 

[Kyber]

hammerfell defended itself against the aldmeri dominion (if i remember the lore right) so why couldnt skyrim? truly Nords are as capable warriors as the Redguards + the homefield advantage is on both sides, the alik'r desert in hammerfell and the rocky mountains of skyrim


i would say though that a united empire is much more capable of wiping those god damn Thalmor of the face of Tamriel then any province alone could

 

[Randomperson9999999]

well the stormcloak guy seemed nicer then the imperials

 

[Navvan]

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.

1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?

2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?

3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power. Main story spoilers coming up.

Spoiler

During the peace treaty with the Imperials, he acted like a child. he kicked up a fuss because he didn't want to be in the same room as a Thalmore, and then proceeded to demand city after city to be surrendered to the Stormcloaks, whilst ranting away at the Imperials with his bile about "true sons of Skyrim". Even in the face of the total destruction of Skyrim, he continued to act like a child, and to furhter his own power.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

A counter to point 1.

From my understanding Hammerfell succeeded from the Empire after the treaty and fought back the Thalmor successfully forcing them to retreat from Hammerfell and form a treaty in their favor. So it isn't without precedence that a territory of the empire can rebel and beat back the Thalmor. Of course the circumstances were a bit different but that is not the point.

A counter to point 2.

Riften was a mess before the rebellion from my understanding (the Thiefs guild having been established there long before Ulfric's rebellion and such), and the state of Windhelm can be attributed to the war itself taking a toll rather than Ulfrics leadership.

Points 3 and 4 are true enough.

 

[Evil Top Hat]

snip

Thank you for that post, it was one of the best I've seen in this thread. You made good points, and while I stick by my views that Ulfric himself is a total idiot

Spoiler

seriously, that peace treaty meeting was just painful to watch because of Ulfric

but I can see now that a Stormcloak ruled Skyrim wouldn't be a totally hopeless situation. I just wonder whether or not a united Empire would stand more chance than united provinces, provided that united provinces would ever actually happen.

 

[kaizen2468]

Seeing as I killed the emperor prior to choosing a side, I thought it would be pretty odd to side with the imperials.

 

[Baldr]

Imperials tried to kill me, I take grudges pretty seriously.

 

[carpathic]

Hey, if Ulfric wants to help me continue my goal of killing all of the elves in existence, then I will be on his side

Ald'meri Dominion be damned, my hero will eventually succeed in stomping out those arrogant elves!

Or not I suspect. But I can think about it at least.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

The Empire is weak, a true Nord would rather die than give up their beliefs.

Aldmeri Dominion can go eat a bag of dragon dicks.

I'm kinda annoyed about Whiterun though...

I was only annoyed about Whiterun until I returned there to find that not a single innocent citizen was killed, only the guards. It was a fairly humane invasion. Even the companions are all still alive, for some reason.