Stormcloaks are too mainstream.

[Mikkaddo]

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.


1) The White-Gold concordat will surely be broken soon, and it will not be long before war with the Ald'meri Dominion resurfaces. If the Stormcloaks take hold of Skyrim, how can they even hope to defend themselves? The Ald'meri Dominion are an incredibly powerful force, how is a team of rag tag rebels ever going to defend Skyrim, especially after having just emerged from such a costly war?

The thing I've seen in the game so far is that after toppling the Imperials, they intend to have a temporary "bond" with the "inferior" races. Since even being a horrible filthy terrible evil Dunmer, my char was STILL offered a spot in the Stormcloaks. Which I'd add was an offer given to me immediately AFTER the character I was talking to spoke of their genocidal plan for all non Nords. Which best I can figure includes Brettons, Bosmer and Imperials alike.

2) Ulfric Stormcloak cannot run Skyrim. Have you seen Windhelm? The place is a total mess. The entire place is more like a stony slum than a city. The streets are filth ridden and the people are starving. Riften is even worse, the guard know exactly where the thieves guild are hiding, but apparently Ulfric doesn't want to waste reinforcements. He can't even manage his section of Skyrim well enough to eradicate a group of pick pockets. How will he ever run an entire continent of Tamriel?

He would likely tell you that his places are so shit because he's "busy" trying to fight the Empire, and that he deserves to be the "true high king" as he's a Dragon Born, better known as the only ones "able" to be Emperor, at least as long as Akatosh (whatever the Dragon god's name is I forget) is around.

3) Ulfric is a total manchild, and only cares about power.

Not a surprise to me, any rebel leader that suddenly gets a spiritual boost like Ulfric does at the start of the game is likely to act that way. I neglected to read the spoiler however as I've not gotten that far into the main quest, at least not untill I've finished most of the sidequests.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

There's also the rather obvious threats of genocide that the captains in the various camps love quoting. I've so far EVERY TIME I went to a Stormcloak camp been met with names like "filthy ash born" and that the Stormcloaks intend to "Cleanse" Skyrim of my filthy and horrible kind. "As well as those damned cats . . . filthy mongrels"

They're not that close to the BNP, they're a lot closer to the KKK or possibly the Nazis. I don't see them as "mainstream" but since I rarely play a human char, even more rarely a Nord, I'm not likely to EVER side with the Stormcloaks. For the Glory of the Empire! *gets ready for the hate*

 

[xxcloud417xx]

snip

Well also look the terrain of the three areas. Skyrim is cold, mountainous area. Hammerfell is a desert like area, and Cyrodiil is a nice forest like area. So fighting in Cyrodiil is pretty easy. While hammerfell and skyrim are very rough terrain and unfamiliar to the Dominion.

Also the Empire actually did hurt the Dominion a lot and the only reason the Empire sign the treay because they thought they would lose. If they continue to fight they probably would have won.

Yes but it's the initial Beatdown that they handed to the Empire that makes me wonder if the fact that they've had time to rebuild will give them enough power to challenge the empire again and perhaps destroy it utterly and then focus on the other provinces. One thing I'd like to point out is that the so-called treaty they signed with the empire has actually done quite a bit to cause a divide between it's provinces. Skyrim is in an all-out rebellion, and Hammerfell has completely removed itself from the Empire. I believe the White Gold Concordiat is nothing more than a tactic to separate and weaken the Empire for a final, all-out strike that will end it.

Also, Desert warfare has apparently not been a problem for the dominion since they have conquered Elsweyr, so I would discount the Terrain of Hammerfell as an insrtument of the Thalmor defeat there.

 

[Jakisall]

To be honest i went with the stormcloaks by accident in the beginning of the game where the dragon is attacking and you have to choose imperial or stormcloak it said the name of the person to follow I had no idea who was who and just went for the closest door.

 

[Outcast107]

snip

Well also look the terrain of the three areas. Skyrim is cold, mountainous area. Hammerfell is a desert like area, and Cyrodiil is a nice forest like area. So fighting in Cyrodiil is pretty easy. While hammerfell and skyrim are very rough terrain and unfamiliar to the Dominion.

Also the Empire actually did hurt the Dominion a lot and the only reason the Empire sign the treay because they thought they would lose. If they continue to fight they probably would have won.

Yes but it's the initial Beatdown that they handed to the Empire that makes me wonder if the fact that they've had time to rebuild will give them enough power to challenge the empire again and perhaps destroy it utterly and then focus on the other provinces. One thing I'd like to point out is that the so-called treaty they signed with the empire has actually done quite a bit to cause a divide between it's provinces. Skyrim is in an all-out rebellion, and Hammerfell has completely removed itself from the Empire. I believe the White Gold Concordiat is nothing more than a tactic to separate and weaken the Empire for a final, all-out strike that will end it.

Also, Desert warfare has apparently not been a problem for the dominion since they have conquered Elsweyr, so I would discount the Terrain of Hammerfell as an insrtument of the Thalmor defeat there.

Oh it was. That treaty was nothing more then just to divide the Empire up. Also remember, if the Empire is building strength, so is The Dominion. Which they haven't given up anything at all. Which is why I think the Empire is a sinking ship. To me, it doesn't matter if the Empire is trying to buy time. They gave up a lot of their strength while the Thalmor continue on strong.

 

[Ammutseba]

First time I went Stormcloak because the Imperial Legion wanted to chop my head off. Now I kill both sides whenever I find them because the game is pretty much just letting you decide whether you wanna be a nazi or a fascist nationalist.

 

[BrionJames]

I sided with Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, mostly because of the Empire's lack of tact and the fact that they are ceding the right of Talos worship. Being a Dragonborn and the fact that they were going to behead me in Helgen for nothing, not even knowing what crime I committed, I think over-throwing them and kicking them and the Thalmar out of Skyrim satisfies my need for vengeance.

 

[azreal369]

I sided with the stormcloaks.
because while wondering town to town and along the main roads i happened upon a group of high elves leading a man in rags. this was when i was a low lvl and wanted to see if there was a chance for a new quest, so i spoke to their leader and (s)he started off by talking down to me then begun to question my faith. when i told it i will worship who ever i please the leader attacked me. while there were other people near by not a single one tired to help me. after some fairly intense combat i stood above the bodies of the high elfs. it was that very instance that shaped my decision that i will not join any group who allows that kind of bull to happen. fuck the elves and the empire. fyi my character is an imperial.

 

[The Harkinator]

The argument that Talos Worship will be saved by siding with the Stormcloaks is completely and utterly invalid considering the simple fact that once the empire loses the fight in Skyrim and the Stormcloaks take over, the Thalmor will sweep in and do what the empire could not, and that in efficient and bloody fashion. If the might of the Empire could not defeat the Aldmeri Dominion, how does Ulfric expect to?

Ulfric has a huge lack of foresight and I believe everything he does is a grab for more power. Only the Empire can assure survival against the Dominion for at least a few more years to come. Perhaps it would also be time to have someone born with the Dragon's Blood to bear the Amulet of Kings once again, since it can only be worn by a Dragonborn emperor (according to Oblivion) and to relight the dragonfires as well, (you know, before Dagon decides he wants another crack at Tamriel and we get another Oblivion crisis).

Dagon can't return to Tamriel. Emperor Martin destroyed the Amulet of Kings and killed Dagons physical form, Dagon still survives in Oblivion but cannot return as he cannot manifest himself physically. He can speak and command through his shrines but is unable to physically get to Tamriel. The dragonfires where there to hold back Dagon and stop the daedra but the events at the end of Oblivion severed the link between Tamriel and Oblivion meaning no more gates to Oblivion can be opened.

But Ulfric still has a hugely short sighted plan, something he fails to factor in is that many of the Nords in Skyrim don't want to be independent and believe that the Empire is a good thing. Ulfrics ethos is 'You are with me or against Skyrim' as if he decides what everyone in Skyrim wants.

I wasn't aware that the amulet was physically destroyed and nor that Dagon's Physical form was too. I assumed that Daedra could die in the physical realm but reincarnate themselves through other means again at a later time (like centuries later kinda thing). Don't ask where I got this notion from since I don't know, I read a lot of fantasy novels and relish in the lore of many fantasy games so it could be from any of that. Where is this info from, I'd like to read it? I don't know nearly as much as I would like about Daedra.

I think that the amulet may not have been destroyed. I assumed that when mixing with Martins blood and becoming an avatar of Akatosh because nobody mentioned it anymore and it couldn't be found, I may have remembered it wrong but the amulet may actually have been imprisoned in the heart of the Martin/Akatosh statue.

And yes, you're right, Daedra can die in the physical realm. Dagon did but he can't leave the plane he rules as the link is severed. He appears as a huge demon in the mortal realm but that body is dead now. His spirit lives on in Oblivion. Check the Elder Scrolls Wiki to read up on a variety of subjects, be careful to avoid more spoilers though.

 

[aristos_achaion]

As I see it, the Stormcloaks more like the Confederates than the Nazis. Were the Confederates legally and philosophically correct in seceding? It's certainly debatable, but that doesn't make them any less racist or seceding any less of a bad idea. There's a reason that Great Britain backed the Confederates in the Civil War -- they wanted the US to fragment into smaller, more easily controllable countries. Likewise, the Thalmor see the Stormcloaks as a force to fragment the Empire, so they can easily control (if not conquer) the resultant pieces. Why don't the Thalmor want a full Stormcloak victory, in that case? Because the Nords, unlike the Confederates, actually are a viable military force. They're not much of an economic force, so the Dominion's best hope is to break Skyrim's army through turmoil and economic hardship -- if the Stormcloaks achieved a quick victory, they might notice that the Dominion is reeling from their costly war with the Empire and strike before their economic shortcomings crippled their military readiness.

Also, does all this talk of "the Dominion" make anybody else feel like the Thalmor are hiding a regiment of Jem'hadar somewhere?

 

[Chronowaster]

I just want to put out there that whichever side you join has you on their party. So when the Thalmor do decide to attack, you the dragon-born will be there to stop them, with your super enchanted legendary Daedric armor and, level 3 storm shout that kills everything in a mile radius. Not to mention later you can summon a dragon. I'm just saying the Thalmor don't stand a chance ageist a level 50 Dovahkiin.

 

[Kopikatsu]

snip

But Oblivion Empire is a totally different empire form Skyrim. The Empire gave up the mages guide, Talos, disbanded the Blades, and gave up a huge chunk of Hammerfell. Plus who to say the Thalmor hasn't change how the Empire handles itself? We haven't been there at all. Plus at least they are letting the them live there. If they were truely racist and hate all non-nords. Why even let them live there? Also they are Refugees. Do you expect them to live in a good place? When Windhelm is the oldest city in Skyrim and most likely putting all its money into the war.

Plus Oblivion wasn't the aftermath of a huge war. It was a peaceful time.

A lot has changed? General Tullius's second in command is a Nord. No Imperial soldier has ever brought up my race (Argonian) in my time serving them. The Empire protects citizens regardless of race. And do you remember the first thing that you see upon entering Windhelm? A group of Nords threatening a Dunmer for being a Dunmer. Hooray for racism. It is okay, they are refugees. The Empire seems the same to me. They don't even enforce the Talos ban. Only Thalmor agents do.

Did you listen to the conversation? To me they were more piss off that the Dark elf hasn't chosen a side at all. Now if you were a nord, who live in the slums (Cause I'm pretty sure that guy did, he didn't seem like a higher up) who keep hearing how elves are telling people what to do. Would you make a stupid mistake in believing all elves are bad? I mean hell look how America treated Arabs when the Terrorist attack happen.

Plus not enforce the Talso ban? HELL they enforce everything else. The blades disbandment, the disbandment of the mages guide, giving up a huge chuck of hammerfell and lastly the bad of Talos.

Plus if you talk to the Grey-manes you found out their son was taken away. Now, This is Whiterun, a neutral city. No Thalmor in site, who would have capture and given the son up to the Thalmor?

The Empire had two options. Submit or be erased from the face of the planet.

The Stormcloaks are fighting for a lost cause. Even if they somehow beat the Empire, the Thalmor are just going to go 'Oh, hey, the assholes are in charge now', wipe out all of the Stormcloaks, then claim the providence of Skyrim for their own.

The Stormcloaks need to suck it up and either stop worshiping Talos, or just commit suicide by cop on the Thalmor. There are no other options for them.

Edit: And if they do the suicide by cop thing, they go to Sovengarde, which is basically Nordic heaven. It's not even like death is an unwelcome outcome!

 

[Muphin_Mann]

But...

They give you a bitchin' hat which is the top half of a bear's head. In my eyes all is forgiven.

Sided with imperials. Killed a Stormcloak general and stole his hat.

First time I went Stormcloak because the Imperial Legion wanted to chop my head off. Now I kill both sides whenever I find them because the game is pretty much just letting you decide whether you wanna be a nazi or a fascist nationalist.

And you were like: "Screw that, imma terrorist" and killed both sides just cuz you could! *metal riff*

 

[seraphy]

I sided with the stormcloaks.
because while wondering town to town and along the main roads i happened upon a group of high elves leading a man in rags. this was when i was a low lvl and wanted to see if there was a chance for a new quest, so i spoke to their leader and (s)he started off by talking down to me then begun to question my faith. when i told it i will worship who ever i please the leader attacked me. while there were other people near by not a single one tired to help me. after some fairly intense combat i stood above the bodies of the high elfs. it was that very instance that shaped my decision that i will not join any group who allows that kind of bull to happen. fuck the elves and the empire. fyi my character is an imperial.

It doesn't bother you that Ulfric is Thalmor puppet? Puppet of those very elves you hate?

They have carefully coached Ulfric to rebel. He is essentially doing exactly what Thalmor wants him to.

 

[ge0rge491]

im not even close to thinking about being done with skyrim, having said that seeing how long they take to make these games im getting first in line. Bethesda, take me to elsewhyr. Tropical jungles, vast deserts, and no fucking mountains, sounds great to me

 

[Outcast107]

snip[/i]

Nope Redguard could hold off their own. The empire just gave up to early. They could have won if they just held on. Also I'm sure Skyrim is like Russia in today since. Cold, hard to live in and rough winter.

 

[Kopikatsu]

snip[/i]

Nope Redguard could hold off their own. The empire just gave up to early. They could have won if they just held on. Also I'm sure Skyrim is like Russia in today since. Cold, hard to live in and rough winter.

The Redguards aren't really holding the Thalmor off so much as the Thalmor aren't bothering them right now.

The Battle of the Red Ring pretty much annihilated the Aldmeri and Imperial armies. The only difference is that the Thalmor were ready to throw what was left of their forces at the Empire and the Empire didn't really have any soldiers to put up a defense. So they surrendered.

The Redguard weren't involved in the Battle of the Red Ring, so they still have troops.

Edit: This all happened thirty-ish years prior to Elder Scrolls V. The Thalmor have re-armed since then.

 

[Scott Lumley]

It's all irrelevant for me, I'm an Altmer. FOR THE DOMINION!

 

[Ghengis John]

The guy sitting next to you was arrested for horse theft, he had absolutely nothing to do with the Stormcloaks yet he was executed. It seems that the punishment for all crimes in the Empire is execution.

In the year 1863 you could be executed for being a rebel or for stealing a horse. That doesn't mean the punishment for all crimes in the united states was execution. You have taken a running leap of logic there.

As for myself I am so sick of hearing the imperials say eight divines. It's nine. That said it's not like the empire wanted to give that up. They fought a war over it. If they didn't sign the concordant they would have been trampled and come to the mercy of people who consider them an inferior race. That would not have had a good outcome. I can understand both sides. I haven't picked one yet.

The real problem here is the Thalmore. They can't stand tiber septim being a divine because tiber septim conquered them and he's a human. If only there was some way to get everyone to work together to give them their comeuppance.

 

[AdamG3691]

Ahhh guys, don't say The Elves, its not the Elves or all Elves, its a particular group of dick Elves I hope we can obliterate in some future DLC.

Is it wrong I hate the Altmer? I've never met a nice one.

Faralda (the destruction trainer at the mage college) is pretty nice to you. but other than her and your player character, I cant remember any other altmer that aren't either thalmor or paranoid/insane.

by the way, about the "joining the stormcloaks as a high elf" thing: I tried, there's an amusing bit where you are asked how you feel about elves and you have the choice to say something along the lines of "yeah, we really suck don't we?" (or alternatively "everyone is equal"), I think its one of the few times any of them actually acknowledge that you aren't a nord