Stormcloaks are too mainstream.
- Thread starter Evil Top Hat
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If you copy and paste that speech in youtube, the top video is a documentary aboutLt. Vinciti said:
nazi propaganda
I think what people (at least I) have an issue with is that the Dark Elves in Windhelm for example consider themselves to be part of the kingdom too. Ulfric doesn't consider them to be part of the kingdom because although they live there they're the wrong race.pumuckl said:
They wouldn't have 'hidden agendas' if Ulfric hadn't assumed they did simply because their skin is a little dark and they have pointy ears.
The Thalmor actually seem deeply religious in their motivations, many of their actions really don't make sense except as part of a genuine religious conviction.pumuckl said:
They worship the divines (though not by the names humans call them) and it does seem to genuinely offend them that the humans have randomly decided that their old Emperor is a God on a par with them. The Altmer didn't go back and declare all their old kings and heroes were Gods, why should mortal humans get to equate one of their own with (what the Thalmor believe) are the real deities of the world? Deities who, in prehistory, the Altmer supposedly walked around with and talked to face to face.
By the time of Skyrim, The Empire hasn't been ruled by one of Talos' descendents for 200 years, and the world has been fine (because Akatosh stepped in and made it so). What relevance does Talos have to the Empire any more?
I don't think it was a big sacrifice, the Nords aren't pissy because Talos might help them beat the Thalmor, they're pissy because Talos was a Nord and they see his worship as part of their culture, not even Imperial culture.
On Topic
It seems worth pointing out, in addition to being a violent bigot, Ulfric also broke the Way of the Voice when he used the Voice for his own political gain.
If the Greybeards are right and the Voice is a gift to humanity from the Gods, then it seems in rather poor taste to sit there and claim to be defending the culture of your people when you're willing to use the most sacred gift given to them simply to make an example of a much weaker opponent, and in doing so to also violate the code laid down by their most sacred and respected order.
I can buy that he was within his rights to challenge the High King, but killing him with the voice seems really difficult to justify to me. Considering he's meant to be a great warrior and High King Torygg wasn't, would it have been too much to ask that he simply defeat him fairly?
I don't have a great deal of respect for the use of the word "mainstream" as a perjorative. That said, I do think the Stormcloaks are a right shower of bastards.
To all the people who say The Empire is with the Thalmor....please actually listen to what General Tullius has to say. He says he needs reinforcements, but can't get any because of increasing men put to the borders of the Empire...hmmmm foreshadowing maybe...and if you do side with the Empire to hold Skyrim
Tullius tells you the peace between the Thalmor and Empire is about to break. That sounds like foreshadowing. Or a bit of The Empire was just playing along. BAM! Sneak attack on the Thalmor and Tamriel is safe.
after much study on the subject i set my allegiance with the Stormcloaks. i have tried both and studied both as well as the history leading up to the conflict. the stormcloak people mostly seem to be truly fighting for their beliefs, their freedom, and hope for a better future skyrim. many who tend to side with the empire have an outlook on ulfric stormcloak as a power hungry,war mongering nord who seeks to use the beliefs of skyrim to reach his goal but i have yet to see such a charcter in ulfric. sure he has his flaws like his hate of elfs( brought on by hate for the thalmor) but he truly seems to be an honerable man who though hating to have to give the order for war knows it is necessary to bring about skyrims freedom. both sides have their good and bad the stormcloaks are just the better of the two. the stormcloaks are fighting for their honerable cause though some may be racist towards elfs and what some might call more barbaric. the empire i guess have good intentions but are narrow sighted. they dont seem to realize that they have lost to the thalmor. its easier for the thalmor to slowly take more controll of the empire through the implimentation of fear then to break the peace and fight when the war has so devistated them as well. the thalmor are truly evil and seek to enslave all others but i believe they plan for a more sneaky route then all out war again. skyrim like hammerfall does have a chance to stand up against the aldmeri and posibly help reunite the empire after the thalmor have lost their controll over it. and the racism isnt as bad as is said if youve spoken with other elfs like high elf girl living fine and well treated in nice part of windhelm she explains how she was able to get where she was by going with the way things are and says how the dark elfs in grey quarter are to stubern to do so.
i actually have gone over that and its not quite true. ill explain how in a message.Tanksie said:
I just enjoy defying the natural built in order. If the Rebels had taken over Skyrim and the Imperials were trying to reclaim their land at the start of the game then I would have sided with the Imperials. Just sayin'
Forsworn? please, they're nothing compared to the Eldrict Bum-lords.orangeban said:
Its all right, you've probably never heard of them. They are so underground that they don't even exist.
The Dominion will crush these rebels if they dare, attack their protectors. Oh well new slaves to serve me wine! *sips on tea while chuckling with other Altmer and Bosmer* But then again our forces were destroyed at the Battle of the Red Ring. Then again we have agents in every kingdom so I think we're fine on the army side.
Short version the empire is split fighting on different fronts, and is incapable of fighting a war against the obviously superior Mer. And the Stormcloaks are killing themselves.
Short version the empire is split fighting on different fronts, and is incapable of fighting a war against the obviously superior Mer. And the Stormcloaks are killing themselves.
I joined up with the Stormcloaks in my first playthrough and regretted it so much I re-started. After playing for a week. I'll explain my reasoning for anyone who wants to read it.
I don't like Ulfric. Never did. My plan, as the Dragonborn, was always to support the Stormcloaks and help them take control of Skyrim, then kill Ulfric and take his throne. I'd already be the saviour of Skyrim at this point. Alduin's bane. Who'd oppose me? Who could oppose me? Who'd dare oppose me?
I would now be High King of an independent Skyrim, full of peasants who love me and nobles who either love me, or obey me out of fear, for I'd be a legend who'd stepped out of the stories of their childhoods.
The only land routes into Skyrim are narrow mountain passes, easily defendable while I rebuild the country. It has just struck me in the last five minutes that Skyrim's north coast is just that - a coast. The Stormcloaks probably don't have a navy. The Thalmor certainly do. I suppose I might capture whatever fragment of the Imperial Navy's ships that were berthed in Solitude, and I would have their ship building facilities as well. If the Thalmor did attack, they would have to land on the rocky, stormy coast, and face off against an army of furious Nords who are very adept at fighting in brutal winter conditions. And me, don't forget me, who can burn their ships with a word, or hurl them off mountainsides, or cause entire companies to flee in unnatural panic. With skill, and a little luck, I could harm the Dominion terribly without having to leave home.
Obviously my plan from here is to lead an army out of Skyrim and re-found the Emipre, Tiber Septim style.
Here's why I regretted joining the Stormcloaks:
I could probably accomplish the same thing with the Imperial Legion. It might require a bit more subtltity than "Eat this sword, Ulfric", but I could do it. I could put down the Stormcloaks with the help of General Tulius, gain his confidence, become a dragon-slaying hero, marry the widowed High Queen and perhaps even demand the Dragon Throne by right of blood if not right of might. If they say no, I could probably stage a military coup, Tulius might even join in, he seems to be mostly autonomus in Skyrim, answerable only to nobles hundreds of miles away. If I did break away from the Empire like this, I could also reinstate Talos worship, winning over many of the former Stormcloaks as well.
I don't care that you can't do any of this in the game, it's happening in my mind!
Anyway, what do you think? And yes, I have been reading my Macheveili...
I don't like Ulfric. Never did. My plan, as the Dragonborn, was always to support the Stormcloaks and help them take control of Skyrim, then kill Ulfric and take his throne. I'd already be the saviour of Skyrim at this point. Alduin's bane. Who'd oppose me? Who could oppose me? Who'd dare oppose me?
I would now be High King of an independent Skyrim, full of peasants who love me and nobles who either love me, or obey me out of fear, for I'd be a legend who'd stepped out of the stories of their childhoods.
The only land routes into Skyrim are narrow mountain passes, easily defendable while I rebuild the country. It has just struck me in the last five minutes that Skyrim's north coast is just that - a coast. The Stormcloaks probably don't have a navy. The Thalmor certainly do. I suppose I might capture whatever fragment of the Imperial Navy's ships that were berthed in Solitude, and I would have their ship building facilities as well. If the Thalmor did attack, they would have to land on the rocky, stormy coast, and face off against an army of furious Nords who are very adept at fighting in brutal winter conditions. And me, don't forget me, who can burn their ships with a word, or hurl them off mountainsides, or cause entire companies to flee in unnatural panic. With skill, and a little luck, I could harm the Dominion terribly without having to leave home.
Obviously my plan from here is to lead an army out of Skyrim and re-found the Emipre, Tiber Septim style.
Here's why I regretted joining the Stormcloaks:
I could probably accomplish the same thing with the Imperial Legion. It might require a bit more subtltity than "Eat this sword, Ulfric", but I could do it. I could put down the Stormcloaks with the help of General Tulius, gain his confidence, become a dragon-slaying hero, marry the widowed High Queen and perhaps even demand the Dragon Throne by right of blood if not right of might. If they say no, I could probably stage a military coup, Tulius might even join in, he seems to be mostly autonomus in Skyrim, answerable only to nobles hundreds of miles away. If I did break away from the Empire like this, I could also reinstate Talos worship, winning over many of the former Stormcloaks as well.
I don't care that you can't do any of this in the game, it's happening in my mind!
Anyway, what do you think? And yes, I have been reading my Macheveili...