Supergirl show. So, how was it?

[immortalfrieza]

Meh.

My GF and I both are really into the current crop of Superhero shows, and its... ok. We're going to keep watching it some more to see if it improves, but currently ranked on the bottom of my list. My GF said it felt a bit immature, and we're going to watch it with our kids (as opposed to Daredevil, which they can't watch )

They did beat the "but your just a girl" into the ground a few too many times. I mean seriously, that would happen like once, then she would break a tank in half, then everyone would be like, "OK! Moving on!"

Yeah, the "you're just a girl!" aspect was what seemed the most annoying to me. It reeked of playing that card to death from what I saw. Sad to hear it actually ended up doing exactly that. Reminds me of the female Thor comics, that played that same freaking card to death. Le sigh.

Haven't you heard? A female cannot be the central protagonist of anything without everybody in that work constantly pointing out they are female and making sexist comments about it. A protagonist cannot simply be female and that's the end of it, ever.

Anyway, that's pretty much what I expected, the show had "we're making the protagonist a woman solely for the sake of badly catering to women" plastered all over it from the word go.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

TBH I loved the fuck out of it. As pilots go, most of them flop hard or skate around to find a tone or the show's legs. I'd say that they set up the basis fairly well, it wasn't exactly perfect but I can see it gaining traction as the season goes on. Unless they really fuck it up in the next few episodes that is.
I'm not going to give it a 5/5 but it deserves, IMHO a 3.5 maybe a 4/5 in my book. It wasn't perfect, but it kept my attention and I did like Jimmy Olson, was quite surprised at the casting but not at all bothered by it.
I also didn't try to dissemble the whole thing, I just watched it with no expectations and was quite surprised. I won't get into any of the social politics of it, I didn't really notice it except for a few parts and it was benign enough and not preachy. Good enough for me.

 

[Breakdown]

Would progressives really be happy with Supergirl? Cara comes across as being fairly weak willed, and she seems to be trying to win the approval of both Superman and the army guy who she's only just met after he effectively kidnaps her. Superman's attitude towards Cara is also pretty patronising. He wants her to be a superhero but to be make the decision on her own, so he sends Jimmy Olson on a mission to subtly manipulate her into doing what he wants.

Superman also gives her secret identity away to Jimmy. He probably doxes her in the next episode.

 

[Phasmal]

Meh.

My GF and I both are really into the current crop of Superhero shows, and its... ok. We're going to keep watching it some more to see if it improves, but currently ranked on the bottom of my list. My GF said it felt a bit immature, and we're going to watch it with our kids (as opposed to Daredevil, which they can't watch )

They did beat the "but your just a girl" into the ground a few too many times. I mean seriously, that would happen like once, then she would break a tank in half, then everyone would be like, "OK! Moving on!"

Yeah, the "you're just a girl!" aspect was what seemed the most annoying to me. It reeked of playing that card to death from what I saw. Sad to hear it actually ended up doing exactly that. Reminds me of the female Thor comics, that played that same freaking card to death. Le sigh.

Haven't you heard? A female cannot be the central protagonist of anything without everybody in that work constantly pointing out they are female and making sexist comments about it. A protagonist cannot simply be female and that's the end of it, ever.

Anyway, that's pretty much what I expected, the show had "we're making the protagonist a woman solely for the sake of badly catering to women" plastered all over it from the word go.

Eh. I'm just gonna point out that when you're female doing [traditionally non female thing]- people DO constantly point out your gender like idiots all the time, so it's not unrealistic.
---

I haven't seen the show but I just watched a couple promos and yeah it looks pretty good.
I really don't watch very much TV, though, because I always forget about it.

 

[sanquin]

Eh. I'm just gonna point out that when you're female doing [traditionally non female thing]- people DO constantly point out your gender like idiots all the time, so it's not unrealistic.
---

I haven't seen the show but I just watched a couple promos and yeah it looks pretty good.
I really don't watch very much TV, though, because I always forget about it.

Maybe that's how it is in America, but here in the Netherlands at least you would be labelled as sexist very quickly if you did that. Men and women are pretty much seen as equal, so the concept of 'woman doing traditionally non-woman thing' hardly comes up here. It's why I always find the 'Omg it's X, but a girl!' thing incredibly cringe-worthy.

 

[happyninja42]

Meh.

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Haven't you heard? A female cannot be the central protagonist of anything without everybody in that work constantly pointing out they are female and making sexist comments about it. A protagonist cannot simply be female and that's the end of it, ever.

Anyway, that's pretty much what I expected, the show had "we're making the protagonist a woman solely for the sake of badly catering to women" plastered all over it from the word go.

Well, to be fair, it's a show about SuperGIRL. So you know, I wouldn't really say it's "badly catering to women". That's sort of like criticizing a show for having Wolverine as the main character, and saying it's "badly catering to Canadians". xD Now the hammering over and over of the "but you're just a girl" trope as an easy plot device is another matter entirely.

OT, I tend to grade origins on a curve, so i'm going to say it was alright. It's covering the basics of an old origin and old set of tropes, and if Kara can get it together enough to quit being such a ditz, it could actually be good. I'm even forgiving on the "girl power" lines in their overuse as after Agent Carter, I have a greater tolerance. I even got a sense of some pushback against the identity politics / diversity crowd

Oh god, Agent Carter. I forgot about how terrible that writing was regarding gender issues. *shudders*

 

[Phasmal]

Eh. I'm just gonna point out that when you're female doing [traditionally non female thing]- people DO constantly point out your gender like idiots all the time, so it's not unrealistic.
---

I haven't seen the show but I just watched a couple promos and yeah it looks pretty good.
I really don't watch very much TV, though, because I always forget about it.

Maybe that's how it is in America, but here in the Netherlands at least you would be labelled as sexist very quickly if you did that. Men and women are pretty much seen as equal, so the concept of 'woman doing traditionally non-woman thing' hardly comes up here. It's why I always find the 'Omg it's X, but a girl!' thing incredibly cringe-worthy.

Yeah, I'm not American. The Netherlands sound cool though.
These are just my experiences being a "tomboy" my entire life. Hell, I mean, it's even a huge issue in games that women can't talk on them without getting `OMG GIRL`. Which, while very cringe-worthy, is unfortunately still a thing.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

I will give it that I thought the action was pretty decent. The fight between Vartox and SG at the plant had the impact expected of two Kryptonian level folks fighting without being OTT/Man of Steel level destruction, and the plane save was good.

Really? I thought that the fight scene was the worst part. Benoist is not the worst actress out there, but she is not good at fight scenes (or rather, portraying an inexperienced fighter struggling for their life), and the choreography didn't help. The plane scene was fine, but I do not look forward to watching her limp-wristed punches (even the training montage in the second episode didn't improve things). If she was sent to protect Kal-El, should she know some Kryptonian martial art?

On the subject of the feminist writing... yeah, they came on a little strong, and that's from someone who watched all of Agent Carter and enjoyed the show. I hope they just front-loaded all that bad writing to get it out of the way, and they'll actually try to build characters.

 

[stormtrooper9091]

I didn't see it but general opinions were that was absolutely atrocious. So take that for what it's worth

 

[Areloch]

Eh. I'm just gonna point out that when you're female doing [traditionally non female thing]- people DO constantly point out your gender like idiots all the time, so it's not unrealistic.
---

I haven't seen the show but I just watched a couple promos and yeah it looks pretty good.
I really don't watch very much TV, though, because I always forget about it.

Maybe that's how it is in America, but here in the Netherlands at least you would be labelled as sexist very quickly if you did that. Men and women are pretty much seen as equal, so the concept of 'woman doing traditionally non-woman thing' hardly comes up here. It's why I always find the 'Omg it's X, but a girl!' thing incredibly cringe-worthy.

Yeah, I'm not American. The Netherlands sound cool though.
These are just my experiences being a "tomboy" my entire life. Hell, I mean, it's even a huge issue in games that women can't talk on them without getting `OMG GIRL`. Which, while very cringe-worthy, is unfortunately still a thing.

Maybe where I live in the US is progressive-topia-land then, because of the several jobs I've worked, the last two before my current one - being tech support in a call center and main support and infrastructure for a internet hosting company respectively - both of which had several ladies, I never once heard "hurr butt ur a gurl!", and tech support and website support and datacenter infrastructure management aren't exactly the poster child feminine fields.
(Correction, I remember ONE call where the guy immediately wanted to be transfered to someone else when my co-worker/friend answered(she being a lady). It went to me and we were pretty much silently laughing at how retarded it was. But given that we could get a hundred calls a day on average and WAY more if something broke, and I worked there for 4 years, that barely counts as an outlier)

Can't say how it is elsewhere, but from my personal experience, that kinda thing continuing to pop up in shows comes off feeling like a trope for trope's sake, rather than a very real reflection of reality.

 

[happyninja42]

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Maybe where I live in the US is progressive-topia-land then, because of the several jobs I've worked, the last two before my current one - being tech support in a call center and main support and infrastructure for a internet hosting company respectively - both of which had several ladies, I never once heard "hurr butt ur a gurl!", and tech support and website support and datacenter infrastructure management aren't exactly the poster child feminine fields.

Can't say how it is elsewhere, but from my personal experience, that kinda thing continuing to pop up in shows comes off feeling like a trope for trope's sake, rather than a very real reflection of reality.

Yeah, that's kind of my issue too. I work for my state Veteran's Affairs office, and we have female veterans come in all the time. And nobody bats an eyelash at it. So it always makes me roll my eyes when I see the "But you're a girl!" trope pop up. And I live in Alabama, traditionally one of the more backwards states when it comes to social rights for various groups. And even here it's like "Yeah, she's a woman, so what?" most of the time.

 

[Phasmal]

Maybe where I live in the US is progressive-topia-land then, because of the several jobs I've worked, the last two before my current one - being tech support in a call center and main support and infrastructure for a internet hosting company respectively - both of which had several ladies, I never once heard "hurr butt ur a gurl!", and tech support and website support and datacenter infrastructure management aren't exactly the poster child feminine fields.
(Correction, I remember ONE call where the guy immediately wanted to be transfered to someone else when my co-worker/friend answered(she being a lady). It went to me and we were pretty much silently laughing at how retarded it was. But given that we could get a hundred calls a day on average and WAY more if something broke, and I worked there for 4 years, that barely counts as an outlier)

Can't say how it is elsewhere, but from my personal experience, that kinda thing continuing to pop up in shows comes off feeling like a trope for trope's sake, rather than a very real reflection of reality.

Okay.

I can't say much more than that. You can say you've never witnessed it, fair enough, I can say I have, fair enough. I suppose both our experiences are anecdotal. But I guess if it's not something you've personally seen it would stick out more when you see it on TV.

 

[Areloch]

Maybe where I live in the US is progressive-topia-land then, because of the several jobs I've worked, the last two before my current one - being tech support in a call center and main support and infrastructure for a internet hosting company respectively - both of which had several ladies, I never once heard "hurr butt ur a gurl!", and tech support and website support and datacenter infrastructure management aren't exactly the poster child feminine fields.
(Correction, I remember ONE call where the guy immediately wanted to be transfered to someone else when my co-worker/friend answered(she being a lady). It went to me and we were pretty much silently laughing at how retarded it was. But given that we could get a hundred calls a day on average and WAY more if something broke, and I worked there for 4 years, that barely counts as an outlier)

Can't say how it is elsewhere, but from my personal experience, that kinda thing continuing to pop up in shows comes off feeling like a trope for trope's sake, rather than a very real reflection of reality.

Okay.

I can't say much more than that. You can say you've never witnessed it, fair enough, I can say I have, fair enough. I suppose both our experiences are anecdotal. But I guess if it's not something you've personally seen it would stick out more when you see it on TV.

Pretty much, yeah. Not implying that it DOESN'T happen, but given that I've basically never seen it, and Happyninja, and other similar anecdotal cases, it does make one ponder just how wide spread it really is these days.

It's entirely possible it's that bad in certain regions and not others, but like you said, from my anecdotal experiences, seeing the trope come up is going to be extra glaring to me.

Clearly everyone else needs to catch up to Progressive-Topia-Land

 

[kris40k]

Really? I thought that the fight scene was the worst part. Benoist is not the worst actress out there, but she is not good at fight scenes (or rather, portraying an inexperienced fighter struggling for their life), and the choreography didn't help. The plane scene was fine, but I do not look forward to watching her limp-wristed punches (even the training montage in the second episode didn't improve things). If she was sent to protect Kal-El, should she know some Kryptonian martial art?

While the actual fight choreography wasn't good, I wasn't expecting it to be on say Daredevil [https://youtu.be/vV1Vzn6xwqQ] level of good. I was more speaking to the special effects of people getting kicked through walls and the impacts they made on objects. I was ok with SG's lack of fighting style as it fits a character who probably has never thrown a punch in anger before due to fear of kicking someone's head off as a kid. I'm not sure how you make someone that doesn't know how to fight look cool while fighting But I agree that there could be improvements made.

As far as her being sent to protect Kal-El, I think it was more of a "you're a child old enough to dress yourself and speak complete sentences, while he's an infant pooping himself" kind of protection expected of her.

 

[happyninja42]

While the actual fight choreography wasn't good, I wasn't expecting it to be on say Daredevil [https://youtu.be/vV1Vzn6xwqQ] level of good. I was more speaking to the special effects of people getting kicked through walls and the impacts they made on objects. I was ok with SG's lack of fighting style as it fits a character who probably has never thrown a punch in anger before due to fear of kicking someone's head off as a kid.

See, this comment confuses me, considering the premise of the show. They send her to Earth to protect Kal-El. So...how would she not know how to fight? I mean, if the entire point of sending her is "to protect someone", sending someone who is incapable of fighting seems....beyond stupid. So in theory she actually should know how to throw a punch.

I'm not sure how you make someone that doesn't know how to fight look cool while fighting But I agree that there could be improvements made.

Maybe establish her as being someone who knows how to fight? xD Again, the premise is that she actually is capable of defending Kal-El. I understand that once she gets there, she learns he doesn't need her protection, but they apparently didn't know that before sending her. So why not teach her combat? You don't send a bookworm nerd to protect someone, you send a trained fighter.

As far as her being sent to protect Kal-El, I think it was more of a "you're a child old enough to dress yourself and speak complete sentences, while he's an infant pooping himself" kind of protection expected of her.

So then she's now older than him right? I mean if she was already a teenager when he was an infant, she should be middle aged, instead of a 20's girl who is likely portrayed as younger than Superman. This just seems incredibly flawed storytelling to me, with huge, Goatsee level of gaping plotholes.

 

[Breakdown]

While the actual fight choreography wasn't good, I wasn't expecting it to be on say Daredevil [https://youtu.be/vV1Vzn6xwqQ] level of good. I was more speaking to the special effects of people getting kicked through walls and the impacts they made on objects. I was ok with SG's lack of fighting style as it fits a character who probably has never thrown a punch in anger before due to fear of kicking someone's head off as a kid.

See, this comment confuses me, considering the premise of the show. They send her to Earth to protect Kal-El. So...how would she not know how to fight? I mean, if the entire point of sending her is "to protect someone", sending someone who is incapable of fighting seems....beyond stupid. So in theory she actually should know how to throw a punch.

I'm not sure how you make someone that doesn't know how to fight look cool while fighting But I agree that there could be improvements made.

Maybe establish her as being someone who knows how to fight? xD Again, the premise is that she actually is capable of defending Kal-El. I understand that once she gets there, she learns he doesn't need her protection, but they apparently didn't know that before sending her. So why not teach her combat? You don't send a bookworm nerd to protect someone, you send a trained fighter.

As far as her being sent to protect Kal-El, I think it was more of a "you're a child old enough to dress yourself and speak complete sentences, while he's an infant pooping himself" kind of protection expected of her.

So then she's now older than him right? I mean if she was already a teenager when he was an infant, she should be middle aged, instead of a 20's girl who is likely portrayed as younger than Superman. This just seems incredibly flawed storytelling to me, with huge, Goatsee level of gaping plotholes.

To be fair her parents tell her that she will have superpowers when she gets to Earth. She doesn't necessarily need to be any good in a fight, if anybody starts on baby Kal-El she could just shoot their faces off with her laser eyes.

 

[happyninja42]

To be fair her parents tell her that she will have superpowers when she gets to Earth. She doesn't necessarily need to be any good in a fight, if anybody starts on baby Kal-El she could just shoot their faces off with her laser eyes.

Well, considering people who have seen the show describe her attempts to fight a skilled warrior as "struggling" I would say she DOES need to be good in a fight. xD Hell she couldn't make it through the pilot without displaying how inept she was at it.

 

[kris40k]

Well, to be fair, it's a show about SuperGIRL. So you know, I wouldn't really say it's "badly catering to women". That's sort of like criticizing a show for having Wolverine as the main character, and saying it's "badly catering to Canadians". xD Now the hammering over and over of the "but you're just a girl" trope as an easy plot device is another matter entirely.

As far as the whole "but your a girl!" bit, I can understand them touching on it, but ok, the subject was brought up, handled, done. If around episode 6 or 7 people are still going, "What? A little girl is a super hero? Ha! Ha!" after she's been spending the season kicking people through mountains I'm going to be bored/annoyed.

Maybe establish her as being someone who knows how to fight? xD Again, the premise is that she actually is capable of defending Kal-El. I understand that once she gets there, she learns he doesn't need her protection, but they apparently didn't know that before sending her. So why not teach her combat? You don't send a bookworm nerd to protect someone, you send a trained fighter.

So then she's now older than him right? I mean if she was already a teenager when he was an infant, she should be middle aged, instead of a 20's girl who is likely portrayed as younger than Superman. This just seems incredibly flawed storytelling to me, with huge, Goatsee level of gaping plotholes.

The premise is that her family was trying to save the life of their daughter and nephew, not send a trained warrior to protect a baby. It was a last ditch effort to get her and Kal-El off the planet a few seconds before it exploded. Not planned. Basically, while Jor-El was packing Kal-El into his escape craft, Kara's parents were getting her into one at the same time.

And she was older at first, until the explosion knocked her craft off-course (she was second off the planet and closer to it than Kal-El was) where she entered the Phantom Zone (where Kryptonians send their priosoners) where time passes differently than this dimension; by the time she broke out, Kal-El had long since reached earth and had grown up. He's now "older" than she is considering the regular passage of time. That plot hole is covered in the pilot with little Goatsee required.

 

[JimB]

The show is okay. It has several good aspects: Ms. Benoist is an excellent actor bringing depth and passion to the character; Callista Flockhart's role is amusing if a bit shallow, in a you'll-get-yours kind of way that reminds me of Master Shake; the writing is fairly honest and truthful about the way women are viewed in our world and the struggles they face. It also has several bad aspects: the practical effects are pretty bad, with the harness equipment needing a lot of work and/or the actors needing a lot of training to make flying fights not look like they're barely keeping themselves from flipping around on the pivots; the show thinks the audience is pretty stupid and has the show flat-out tell us what we should have remembered happening twenty minutes ago; some twerp in charge of dialogue keeps demanding the characters make weird, tin-eared speeches no one would ever make.

I want to like the show more than I do, and I'll keep watching in the hopes it picks up, but those last two sins in particular really grate me.

 

[Twintix]

Meh.

My GF and I both are really into the current crop of Superhero shows, and its... ok. We're going to keep watching it some more to see if it improves, but currently ranked on the bottom of my list. My GF said it felt a bit immature, and we're going to watch it with our kids (as opposed to Daredevil, which they can't watch )

They did beat the "but your just a girl" into the ground a few too many times. I mean seriously, that would happen like once, then she would break a tank in half, then everyone would be like, "OK! Moving on!"

Yeah, the "you're just a girl!" aspect was what seemed the most annoying to me. It reeked of playing that card to death from what I saw. Sad to hear it actually ended up doing exactly that. Reminds me of the female Thor comics, that played that same freaking card to death. Le sigh.

Haven't you heard? A female cannot be the central protagonist of anything without everybody in that work constantly pointing out they are female and making sexist comments about it. A protagonist cannot simply be female and that's the end of it, ever.

Exactly! Unless people realize that this is a trite, insulting to everybody and, worst of all, fucking stupid way of handling these things, we are never going to move on to greater things.

Everyone need to stop acting like girls doing cool stuff is such a big deal; That's just having everything boil down to gender again, which is what feminists want to avoid in the first place. (At least the ones who truly want equality, not the whiny offended man-hating bitches who just want special treatment)
Also, while I haven't seen the trailers, I vaguely remember someone on this forum talking about a scene where a mother tells Supergirl that her daughter "finally has a role model" in the form of, well, Supergirl. This might just be me missing some point, but what the fuck, who says that girls can't have male role models or that they must have a female role model?

Things just need to stop being divided into "awesome guy" and "awesome girl". Can't we just leave role models as "awesome people"?