Superman and now Captain America. Why so much dislike for being "overpowered"?

[Parasondox]

Hello and evening fellow Escapist.

Now the more I read from comments and forums about super heroes the more I just get confused about things I read and hear. Some comic fans just don't like an overpowered hero, first Superman and now Captain America. After watching the Captain America: Winter Soldier trailer on YouTube and scrolled down the comments section, you know before Google messed it up and now just filled with retarded spam, a lot of the comments were good and positive mostly cause this is a SHIELD associated product people actually wanted to see rather than the crap on TV. Captain America, Black Widow, Falcon, Winter Soldier, just fantastic in my books. One or few comments pointed out that because Cap was "overpowered like Superman, he is just "boring". I must ask why is that? Another was in the Escapist forums and how Avengers was all about Iron Man even though Cap is the leader but once again I saw another similar comment about how he was overpowered and therefore boring like Superman.

I understand "God mode" is boring cause you don't go through an up and down struggle and nearly unbeatable but why are fans loving and saying they relate to Iron Man and Batman more because they have no powers. True but may I add one other factor about those two heroes? They have a piss load amount of money that gives them a leg up since birth. Better education, better life and better access to the top things. Might I add I don't hear anyone saying Thor is overpowered even though he is meant to be a God of some sorts.

For now I am not getting into war with Batman fans, again but I just want to ask, why is there much dislike for overpowered or just normal powered heroes. Maybe cause they are often portrayed in a religious sense that gets on peoples nerves or just their stories don't relieve enough heartache and battles to become the best.

Please let me know cause its something I have been wondering for a while.

 

[Shadowstar38]

Oh. So you can smack around Darkside no problem? So ever other time before now when villains nowhere near his level showed up, you were just taking the piss? Good to know.

Not sure what people's problem with Captain America is. I guess since he's the only one with powers in a movie full of badass normals, he's out of place.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I don't understand how Captain America is overpowered. Like, at all.

He really only has 2 powers, his super strength, and his above average healing ability, and the second one isn't anywhere on the level of someone like Wolverine or Deadpool where it makes them pretty much invincible.

In fact, I would say out of all the superheros with powers, Captain America is probably one of the least powerful over all, especially in a universe with characters like Doctor Strange.

 

[Miss G.]

I don't understand how Captain America is overpowered. Like, at all.

He really only has 2 powers, his super strength, and his above average healing ability, and the second one isn't anywhere on the level of someone like Wolverine or Deadpool where it makes them pretty much invincible.

In fact, I would say out of all the superheros with powers, Captain America is probably one of the least powerful over all, especially in a universe with characters like Doctor Strange.

This. His serum-given power is being the pinnacle of human potential in mind and body, thus he is as augmented as you can get without actually having superpowers and without being anything more than human. It would seem, strength aside, he's not even as powerful as those

Spoiler

Extremis super-soldier rip-offs/suped-up Pepper from Iron Man 3, if only just in terms of healing factors (that conveniently went away for the big battle) and ignoring their fire powers.

I don't see how that would make him overpowered, like how it is with Superman- an alien that could easily be a god on Earth if he felt so inclined, but doesn't 'cuz it'd be too easy to go down the slippery slope.

In the Marvel universe, once you bring mutants/mutates, super geniuses, aliens, gods, people who happen to have superpowers/magic or super abilities (either naturally or by accident like Spidey, Fantastic 4, and Hulk) to the table, you see Captain America's real strength lies in being a highly efficient battle strategist and tactician. Regardless of the situation, he can apply those calculations on the fly to (supreme projectile throwing, parkour, and) command those individuals with more power than himself to marry their best assets in such a way that brings about the desired outcomes. That said, if that's those peoples' idea of "overpowered", then similar strategists (minus the shield throwing) IRL like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, and Sun Tzu were overpowered (and out of place with those under their command) too.

 

[Heronblade]

Except for that stupid physics breaking shield of his, I don't see how Cap A can be considered overpowered. (even if there was a material that universally impervious to damage, it would still react to impact, not just stand in place without at least transferring kinetic energy to the arm holding it.

His natural abilities have been pushed a little bit beyond normal human limits, but that's all. Frankly, compared to most of the superheroes he runs with, he's a weak runt.

To answer the question in a more general manner, the complaint I and most others have about overpowered characters is mainly one of scope. A character can be as powerful as you like, but an engaging story requires genuine struggle of some kind, not just the good guy wiping the floor with everyone in sight. In superman's case, 95% of the time, his enemies never really pose a physical threat, and are only able to cause problems indirectly.

 

[klaynexas3]

Yeah, whoever talked about how Captain America is OP clearly does not know the meaning of the term, or must have only just been introduced to superheroes.

But as for Superman, I can see how he can struggle at some points mostly with the fact that he doesn't understand what he is, but after a while, he would just overcome these struggles. He'd either just be repeating past struggles or not having any problems at all. There is always something that he can do to basically insure that he wins a fight. And if he enters a situation where he can't use any previous powers that he originally had, poof, he suddenly unlocked the next level, time to allocate skill points in whatever the fuck will beat this guy I'm currently fighting. It's so boring. The reason why Iron Man and Batman get the go ahead with their "powers" is because it is mostly finite. If they have to get something new to beat a person, it is after they've probably already failed. In fact, they can fail. That's why there are so many comics about Superman dying, because it can only be interesting if he's either killed or nearly killed. I just find him to be the epitome of dull in terms of super heroes.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Wait, Captain America is overpowered? He's basically a guy on super-steroids with a physics-defying shield, which sounds impressive until you realize the competition can literally shoot lasers from their eyes.

I think when they say he's "over-powered" they're talking about his personality. Superman and Captain America are the perfect "everymen", they don't really have any personality (although admittedly Captain America is better then Superman in that respect). They're main character flaw is naivety, that they're literally too good. In general they're kinda boring and conflict-less characters.

Now Batman isn't much better, but he makes up for it by having personal tragedies that actually relate to the villains he fights. And Tony Stark is a sarcastic asshole and thus immediately gets the like-minded internet's approval.

 

[Vausch]

Oh. So you can smack around Darkside no problem? So ever other time before now when villains nowhere near his level showed up, you were just taking the piss? Good to know.

Not sure what people's problem with Captain America is. I guess since he's the only one with powers in a movie full of badass normals, he's out of place.

I like how people keep using that clip to show how OP Superman is even though he lost that fight.

Though when it comes to Cap, people are whining. I heard people say he's too invincible in the first movie but that doesn't make sense. He's arguably the third weakest Avenger and his saving grace is his tactical thinking and combat skills.

 

[Reiper]

Except for that stupid physics breaking shield of his, I don't see how Cap A can be considered overpowered. (even if there was a material that universally impervious to damage, it would still react to impact, not just stand in place without at least transferring kinetic energy to the arm holding it.

I love the shield. I believe the reason it does not transfer the kinetic energy, is because it reflects it.

The reason I love cap is because he is pretty much the epitome of good, and something we should all strive to be. The fact that he doesn't have ridiculous powers and often fights stronger enemies is another reason I love him. He knows he is outmatched, but he perseveres anyway with an iron will, pure heart and no moral compromise.


Like this for example, he is fighting loki, a virtual god, and even though he is losing he fights on. This was my favourite part of the movie.

Heck when I first played Marvel v Capcom 3 and cap did his "FOR FREEDOM!" combo I practically came.

Its prolly obvious now that I love the cap

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Captain America overpowered? WAT?!

His superpower is just that he's always at 100% human peak natural ability and also a natural leader. FAR from superpowered. Did they not see the Avengers? Cap spent the whole final fight dueling small fries on the ground while Hulk, Iron Man and Thor wrecked the shit of gigantic space worms.

Now SUPERMAN, I agree is largely overpowered. Unless he's facing magic or someone with Kryptonite. THEN things get fun.

 

[Heronblade]

Except for that stupid physics breaking shield of his, I don't see how Cap A can be considered overpowered. (even if there was a material that universally impervious to damage, it would still react to impact, not just stand in place without at least transferring kinetic energy to the arm holding it.

I love the shield. I believe the reason it does not transfer the kinetic energy, is because it reflects it.

Newtonian law of physics number three. Every action provokes an equal and opposite reaction.

You cannot simply reflect kinetic energy, it can be distorted, warped, transferred, dissipated, etc. but it is impossible to get it to reverse direction, no matter what kind of material you are working with. What you can do is generate an opposing force which causes your moving object to reverse direction, but all you have really accomplished is an energy swap, not a reversal. The object that was hit still has to deal with that same kinetic energy.

Imagine holding up a shield like that, and letting someone hit it with a sledgehammer. Your arm, and through it the rest of your body, still has to deal with exactly the same amount of kinetic energy as if you had tried to block the blow without the shield. The shield just gives you a work advantage that lets you stretch out and soften the impact. Kind of like the tire shocks on a car or bike.

This setup has its limits:

-one, no matter what, a heavy enough blow will send a shock through your arm strong enough to shatter bone, or worse.

-two, the less the shield itself moves, the less the impact of the blow is mitigated. If it doesn't move at all, you almost might as well be blocking it barehanded.

Given the force behind some of the blows Cap A has taken on that shield, the realistic outcomes are not exactly pretty.

Either he successfully braces the shield such that it does not significantly move, just like in the comics/movies, and the resulting kinetic shock turns most of his innards to bone shrapnel filled goop. Or, more likely, he does not, and the shield goes flying, probably crushing him in the process.

 

[Vausch]

Except for that stupid physics breaking shield of his, I don't see how Cap A can be considered overpowered. (even if there was a material that universally impervious to damage, it would still react to impact, not just stand in place without at least transferring kinetic energy to the arm holding it.

I love the shield. I believe the reason it does not transfer the kinetic energy, is because it reflects it.

Newtonian law of physics number three. Every action provokes an equal and opposite reaction.

You cannot simply reflect kinetic energy, it can be distorted, warped, transferred, dissipated, etc. but it is impossible to get it to reverse direction, no matter what kind of material you are working with. What you can do is generate an opposing force which causes your moving object to reverse direction, but all you have really accomplished is an energy swap, not a reversal. The object that was hit still has to deal with that same kinetic energy.

Imagine holding up a shield like that, and letting someone hit it with a sledgehammer. Your arm, and through it the rest of your body, still has to deal with exactly the same amount of kinetic energy as if you had tried to block the blow without the shield. The shield just gives you a work advantage that lets you stretch out and soften the impact. Kind of like the tire shocks on a car or bike.

This setup has its limits:

-one, no matter what, a heavy enough blow will send a shock through your arm strong enough to shatter bone, or worse.

-two, the less the shield itself moves, the less the impact of the blow is mitigated. If it doesn't move at all, you almost might as well be blocking it barehanded.

Given the force behind some of the blows Cap A has taken on that shield, the realistic outcomes are not exactly pretty.

Either he successfully braces the shield such that it does not significantly move, just like in the comics/movies, and the resulting kinetic shock turns most of his innards to bone shrapnel filled goop. Or, more likely, he does not, and the shield goes flying, probably crushing him in the process.

Vibranium is a unique element though. When it's hit with impacts, it doesn't transfer it throughout. It absorbs it and makes its molecular bonds even stronger. Each impact Cap's shield takes makes it a stronger metal.

Of course it has limits. If its improperly forged, it reaches a certain point where it can't take any more and shatters like glass. Happened to Cap's shield.

 

[Heronblade]

Vibranium is a unique element though. When it's hit with impacts, it doesn't transfer it throughout. It absorbs it and makes its molecular bonds even stronger. Each impact Cap's shield takes makes it a stronger metal.

Of course it has limits. If its improperly forged, it reaches a certain point where it can't take any more and shatters like glass. Happened to Cap's shield.

Sorry, but still nope. You couldn't absorb nearly enough energy that way to begin with, and even if you could, adding energy to molecular bonds as you describe weakens them, not strengthens. It would be like giving a room full of five year olds a case of Red Bull energy drinks to consume.

It is indeed possible to take kinetic energy and use it to strengthen some materials. The process is known as cold working. The problem is that it involves plastic deformation, permanent changes to the shape of the material. It also does almost nothing to avoid the transfer of energy to whatever your object is supported by.

 

[Vausch]

Vibranium is a unique element though. When it's hit with impacts, it doesn't transfer it throughout. It absorbs it and makes its molecular bonds even stronger. Each impact Cap's shield takes makes it a stronger metal.

Of course it has limits. If its improperly forged, it reaches a certain point where it can't take any more and shatters like glass. Happened to Cap's shield.

Sorry, but still nope. You couldn't absorb nearly enough energy that way to begin with, and even if you could, adding energy to molecular bonds as you describe weakens them, not strengthens.

It is indeed possible to take kinetic energy and use it to strengthen some materials. The process is known as cold working. The problem is that it involves plastic deformation, permanent changes to the shape of the material. It also does almost nothing to avoid the transfer of energy to whatever your object is supported by.

Fictional universe, man. You gotta take some of the lapses in science with a grain of salt. In any case, it seems that with examples shown with Cap's shield the energy is more often than not reflected back at what hits it or it gets absorbed and spread throughout it as I said. It could even be that the specific design of the shield lets it redirect the kinetic energy in such a way that it doesn't impact the person holding it as much, like when Thor's hammer hit him. It seemed to reflect the energy around them and back at Thor but the impact he felt was minimal at best.

I'd also like to point out I'm reaching for this and my understanding of physics is weak at best as evidenced.

 

[Fox12]

Because overpowered characters ruin any sense of tension. "Oh no, Superman has to fight Lex Luthors two unarmed thugs. I'm really on the edge of my seat now." It's okay if the opponent is equal, if not stronger, than the hero. It's also okay if the writer is brilliant and uses an overpowered character to make a statement (Dr. Manhattan). Otherwise the writer risks creating a Mary Sue character. A character like Superman is okay, but some writers take it to comical lengths. Superman survives getting smacked by two stars? Superman ties a bunch of planets together and carries them through the universe? At that point his powers border on self parody, except it's played completely straight. Taken that far it's just as bad as Batmans "shark repellent." Actually it's worse, because that was SUPPOSED to be funny. Superman can be good when kept in check though. The animated series was great, and it had one of the greatest finales of all time.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Vibranium is a unique element though. When it's hit with impacts, it doesn't transfer it throughout. It absorbs it and makes its molecular bonds even stronger. Each impact Cap's shield takes makes it a stronger metal.

Of course it has limits. If its improperly forged, it reaches a certain point where it can't take any more and shatters like glass. Happened to Cap's shield.

Sorry, but still nope. You couldn't absorb nearly enough energy that way to begin with, and even if you could, adding energy to molecular bonds as you describe weakens them, not strengthens.

It is indeed possible to take kinetic energy and use it to strengthen some materials. The process is known as cold working. The problem is that it involves plastic deformation, permanent changes to the shape of the material. Trying to transfer the energy away from the captain this way would just result in him holding a thin plate of metal the size of a barn door.

Considering some of the other shit in the Marvel Universe, picking on Cap's Shield is kinda nitpicking.
Personally, I'd be more worried about how the hell Scarlet Witch caused "House of M."

OT: The main reason why Superman kept getting his asskicked in the DCAU Cartoons was that the makers realized how boring it'd be for Superman to be able to solve any problem, an issue that would have been MUCH worse in the Justice League Cartoon.

THAT'S the issue with being Overpowered and while some media can do interesting things with the idea of someone being that powerful (Watchmen comes to mind), It gets annoying to see characters instantly solve any problem.

As for Captain America, He's only Grade: B- Tier in Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 while Frank West was Grade: A+.
If anything, He's underpowered.

 

[mduncan50]

Vibranium is a unique element though. When it's hit with impacts, it doesn't transfer it throughout. It absorbs it and makes its molecular bonds even stronger. Each impact Cap's shield takes makes it a stronger metal.

Of course it has limits. If its improperly forged, it reaches a certain point where it can't take any more and shatters like glass. Happened to Cap's shield.

Sorry, but still nope. You couldn't absorb nearly enough energy that way to begin with, and even if you could, adding energy to molecular bonds as you describe weakens them, not strengthens. It would be like giving a room full of five year olds a case of Red Bull energy drinks to consume.

It is indeed possible to take kinetic energy and use it to strengthen some materials. The process is known as cold working. The problem is that it involves plastic deformation, permanent changes to the shape of the material. It also does almost nothing to avoid the transfer of energy to whatever your object is supported by.

I thinking you may not understand that this is a fantasy universe. You're watching a movie that includes gods, aliens, and a guy that turns into a giant green monster when he gets miffed, and your big complaint with the physics is the fact that his arm doesn't break when his shield blocks something? If I was to pick anything it would be the fact that Thor flies by throwing his hammer really fast.

 

[Heronblade]

Fictional universe, man. You gotta take some of the lapses in science with a grain of salt. In any case, it seems that with examples shown with Cap's shield the energy is more often than not reflected back at what hits it or it gets absorbed and spread throughout it as I said. It could even be that the specific design of the shield lets it redirect the kinetic energy in such a way that it doesn't impact the person holding it as much, like when Thor's hammer hit him. It seemed to reflect the energy around them and back at Thor but the impact he felt was minimal at best.

I'd also like to point out I'm reaching for this and my understanding of physics is weak at best as evidenced.

Feel free to chalk it up to magic or whatever, the shield is FAR from the worst thing in the universe in question. Just don't try to justify it as physically possible unless prepared to back it up to some random geek like me with nothing better to do

Regardless, redirecting doesn't work either so long as the shield remains intact and its only support is still the guy's arm. It also isn't long enough to act as a shock spring in and of itself, those need distance to compress to have a significant effect. What you COULD do is have the shield material act as an ablative. Either it permanently stretches out to the sides, and/or chunks of it fly off on impact. Kinetic energy gets absorbed in the material change and/or simply carried off. The downside is that the captain is very quickly left without a usable shield this way.

I thinking you may not understand that this is a fantasy universe. You're watching a movie that includes gods, aliens, and a guy that turns into a giant green monster when he gets miffed, and your big complaint with the physics is the fact that his arm doesn't break when his shield blocks something? If I was to pick anything it would be the fact that Thor flies by throwing his hammer really fast.

Nah, I get that just fine, and normally wouldn't think of nitpicking this. I'm just stubborn enough that I won't let the idea that this is actually possible slide.

 

[Shada67]

Except for that stupid physics breaking shield of his, I don't see how Cap A can be considered overpowered. (even if there was a material that universally impervious to damage, it would still react to impact, not just stand in place without at least transferring kinetic energy to the arm holding it.

I love the shield. I believe the reason it does not transfer the kinetic energy, is because it reflects it.

Newtonian law of physics number three. Every action provokes an equal and opposite reaction.

You cannot simply reflect kinetic energy, it can be distorted, warped, transferred, dissipated, etc. but it is impossible to get it to reverse direction, no matter what kind of material you are working with. What you can do is generate an opposing force which causes your moving object to reverse direction, but all you have really accomplished is an energy swap, not a reversal. The object that was hit still has to deal with that same kinetic energy.

Imagine holding up a shield like that, and letting someone hit it with a sledgehammer. Your arm, and through it the rest of your body, still has to deal with exactly the same amount of kinetic energy as if you had tried to block the blow without the shield. The shield just gives you a work advantage that lets you stretch out and soften the impact. Kind of like the tire shocks on a car or bike.

This setup has its limits:

-one, no matter what, a heavy enough blow will send a shock through your arm strong enough to shatter bone, or worse.

-two, the less the shield itself moves, the less the impact of the blow is mitigated. If it doesn't move at all, you almost might as well be blocking it barehanded.

Given the force behind some of the blows Cap A has taken on that shield, the realistic outcomes are not exactly pretty.

Either he successfully braces the shield such that it does not significantly move, just like in the comics/movies, and the resulting kinetic shock turns most of his innards to bone shrapnel filled goop. Or, more likely, he does not, and the shield goes flying, probably crushing him in the process.

In the comics, Cap's shield is a combination of Vibranium/Adamantium. The Adamantium makes it indestructible, the Vibranium allows it to absorb kinetic energy without transferring it to the holder (comic book physics people).

 

[Erttheking]

Wait a minute, Captain America? The same guy on the team as a god and the god damn Incredible Hulk? Overpowered? I don't see it.

As for Superman...well it's hard to feel invested when 99% of the world's villains can be defeated in a fraction of a second by him.