SW:TOR Flashpoint Walkthrough, and a question about Jedi and moral choices

[Sixcess]

[link]http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/esseles-developer-walkthrough[/link]

Click the link for a 13 minute walkthrough of a sequence from Star Wars: The Old Republic.

It's an interesting look at group mechanics in the game (and lol at the Smuggler's portable chest high wall) but I'm not really interested in a discussion of the gameplay itself (though feel free...)

What made me want to start this topic is something that happens about halfway through the vid - a lightside/darkside choice that actually made me sit up and say "WTF?" Even more so when I read that no matter how many darkside choices a Jedi makes they won't become a Sith - they'll always be one of the 'good' guys.

I'm curious about what you guys make of it. I'll spoiler my own opinion.

Spoiler

To be honest I'm pretty appalled. When I think of Jedi I think of Obi Wan Kenobi, and I can't envisage him cold bloodedly murdering a group of innocent men in the name of expediency. I know that it's fashionable to be all 'shades of grey' these days, but something I liked about Star Wars was that the good guys were good and the bad guys were bad (or redeemable.)

Perhaps the expanded universe is more cynical. In fact I'm sure it is, though I've never paid much attention to it. But this just didn't feel like Star Wars to me.

Thoughts?

 

[MisterShine]

What made me want to start this topic is something that happens about halfway through the vid - a lightside/darkside choice that actually made me sit up and say "WTF?" Even more so when I read that no matter how many darkside choices a Jedi makes they won't become a Sith - they'll always be one of the 'good' guys.

I'm curious about what you guys make of it. I'll spoiler my own opinion.

It should be specified, while you cannot switch sides from Jedi to Sith, you can go to the side of the force traditionally reserved for the other side. The Old Republic isn't so much about light side versus dark side (though each faction tends to swing more one way than the other), it is about the political entities, the Republic versus the Sith Empire.

So while yes you can play a Jedi who has fallen to the Dark Side, you are still fighting to protect the republic for your own reasons. And in fact I believe part of the story for a jedi that falls to the dark side is you are actively hiding your actions from the other Jedi and this will become a plot point. On the flip side, you can play a Sith Inquisitor or Warrior who can go to the Light Side. You will still fight for the Empire, but either you take an adversarial view of your fellow sith, or you are working to change them from the inside. Which is personally what I plan on doing From what I've read of developer comments, playing as the opposing side of the force from your faction leads to some pretty intense shit in your personal storyline.

 

[Heathrow]

The idea isn't to have choices which would run against the character of Jedi or Sith as a whole but rather to have dialogue options which cover all possible character bases. Lest we forget there is a precedent for complicated Jedi, Luke very nearly turns to the dark side within the main continuity and outright does so for a short time in the expanded universe, in fact most EU Jedi yo-yo back and forth between light and dark so much that you begin to wonder if this whole corruption/redemption in isn't just a Jedi phase comparable to being a rowdy teen. The EU also gives us precedent for complicated Sith, specifically with the canonical Revan and later with Treya who is about as grey as anyone (Jedi or Sith) could ever hope to be.

Frankly, I don't find the fact that you can be an evil Jedi or a righteous Sith to be problematic. Those dialogue options are balanced to be understandably difficult and playing against type will add significant challenge to your experience. For example, one of the early Sith Warrior missions has you competing with a rival to retrieve a macguffin. You, being the PC, obviously get to your goal first, but when you do a dialogue choice will give you the option of giving away your prize to spare your rival his punishment for being a failure. If you choose this route you will be forced to replay a previous segment of the mission in order to retrieve another macguffin.

Bioware have said this is something they are trying to replicate throughout the game so I expect most against type character choices will be fairly punishing to the player.

(And if for some reason someone at Bioware sees this and is getting sniffy about NDAs, I played the demo at PAX last year.)

 

[Sixcess]

So while yes you can play a Jedi who has fallen to the Dark Side, you are still fighting to protect the republic for your own reasons. And in fact I believe part of the story for a jedi that falls to the dark side is you are actively hiding your actions from the other Jedi and this will become a plot point. On the flip side, you can play a Sith Inquisitor or Warrior who can go to the Light Side. You will still fight for the Empire, but either you take an adversarial view of your fellow sith, or you are working to change them from the inside. Which is personally what I plan on doing From what I've read of developer comments, playing as the opposing side of the force from your faction leads to some pretty intense shit in your personal storyline.

Thank you, that's actually one of the most interesting things I've read about this game.

Bioware have said this is something they are trying to replicate throughout the game so I expect most against type character choices will be fairly punishing to the player.

As is this.

Indeed if they follow through on this it could make me want to actually play the game (and I've been massively sceptical about it for a long time.) The idea of playing a Sith on the 'wrong side' has some appeal, given the slightly irrational loathing I've had of the dark side ever since seeing the Sith missions for The Force Unleashed.