Sweden Moves Towards Gender Neutrality [Support Thread]

[minimacker]

That's not how it works.

It's if you don't know if the person is a male or female. Instead of saying "him or her", you say "hen".

We won't start calling guys hen all of a sudden.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Well isn't this ridiculous. I'm sorry but as much as these Tumblr pseudo-activists would like you to believe there aren't, there are definitely two genders and it's normal to be one or the other. Yeah, it's cool and nice and all that shit for a country to officially recognise that there are outliers but I reckon it's a little unnecessary. To me it just screams "teenager looking to be different".

So what? This is a positive thread only? No place for criticision or opinion? Thus no discussion? Really ? Well that makes this thread pretty ...boring . I was looking for flame wars , but peoples opinion would be nice. Anyways, i think this is silly but since this is a "positive" thread i'll just leave it at that . If i had something positive to say it would be i applaud them on having the courage and will to support change .

Man in a thread like this you can either have a flame war or you can have everyone become a hive mind. It appears, like most threads that hit ten pages, to have spiralled wildly into something barely even recognisable.

 

[Aramis Night]

Man in a thread like this you can either have a flame war or you can have everyone become a hive mind. It appears, like most threads that hit ten pages, to have spiralled wildly into something barely even recognisable.

It is true that this thread has progressed far beyond the scope of the mere introduction of a gender neutral word. But as with anything worthy of examination, it is inevitable that the motivations for it are considered. However i would like to point out that this thread has made it into controversial territory at 10 pages and managed to remain fairly civil. Given how these threads do often wind up becoming vicious battlegrounds, I see this as a positive discussion even if we don't all agree. I would not object to another 10 pages as long as that trend continues and i would be curious to see where it goes if it does manage to continue that far.

 

[AWAR]

This is ridiculous, they can't force new pronouns in a language.
EDIT: turns out they've already existed, oh well.

 

[Calibanbutcher]

This is utterly silly. and the removal of toys is stupid to boot.

Also I got a good laugh out of the "No other opinions!" disclaimer at the bottom.

ANYWAY... I don't have much to add about the topic other than it makes me pretty happy and I wish something like that would be done here in Britain.

The english version is saying 'one' or 'they'

Gendered Example: "If he agrees, he is more than welcome to stay."
Genderless Example: "If one agrees, they are more than welcome to stay."

I hate to be that guy, but that is actually grammatically incorrect. "They" would be describing a plural subject, whereas "one" would be a singular subject. I can't honestly think of a clean way of using a gender-less example of that sentence. So, I can see that actual use for having a gender neutral word simply for grammatical reasons.

OT: While, as I said above, this does some useful for politically correct Grammar Nazis, but in terms of actually achieving equality in terms of legal and social rights and respect, this isn't exactly the way to go. There are differences between the sexes, and ignoring that is just downright stupid. All people deserve tolerance, the same rights, and the same amount of respect you'd give anyone(until proven to deserve more or less), but we shouldn't assume everyone is exactly the same. I can understand the reasoning behind deconstructivism, but I don't see it as a viable solution.

And also, I really hope I read it correctly in that you only wanted people to at least be calm and respectful in their posts, even if it was a dissenting opinion. If you really just don't want any dissenting opinion at all, I don't think that's the point of a discussion topic, to only talk about how great this idea sounds. It just seems like we'd be patting ourselves on our own backs, even if we were lying.

Well, I hate to be that guy...
Actually, scratch that, I love being that guy:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-commonly-corrected-grammar-errors-that-arent-mistakes/
bla bla, 600 years of "they" being used this way by authors and non-authors alike, bla bla, assaulting ducks, bla bla, unknown assailant, bla.


http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=89
Less ducks being assaulted, but a better overall essay on how using "they" for singular subjects of unknown gender is perfectly alright.

 

[zxvcasdfqwerzxcv]

This is utterly silly. and the removal of toys is stupid to boot.

Also I got a good laugh out of the "No other opinions!" disclaimer at the bottom.

ANYWAY... I don't have much to add about the topic other than it makes me pretty happy and I wish something like that would be done here in Britain.

The english version is saying 'one' or 'they'

Gendered Example: "If he agrees, he is more than welcome to stay."
Genderless Example: "If one agrees, they are more than welcome to stay."

I hate to be that guy, but that is actually grammatically incorrect. "They" would be describing a plural subject, whereas "one" would be a singular subject. I can't honestly think of a clean way of using a gender-less example of that sentence. So, I can see that actual use for having a gender neutral word simply for grammatical reasons.

Not really, the correct sentence would be "If one agrees, one is more than welcome to stay." Just keep it in the indefinite singular article.

I'm really not a fan of this move by Sweden, not the grammar part, but children's education, books and toys. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I, for one, think that gender and difference and variety are the spice of life. I am completely against the homogenization of culture, which I am afraid may happen in Sweden now. It may not be a bad thing...hell, it may even be a good thing, but it will definitely be a boring thing, and I do not want to see a more boring world!

 

[DanielBrown]

Swede here.
I thought it was only one school that started forcing the students to adress everyone as "hen". If anything this is just a fad campain that won't go anywhere. Wouldn't even know how to bend the word. "Hennes" is already the bent form of "hon"(her car = hennes bil). It would probably be bent as "hens", but that just sounds like "höns"(chicken).

No, I don't support it and I haven't met any other Swede who has thought it was a good idea. Gender equality is great, in most cases, but neutrality won't help for shit and even if people doesn't like it men and women are different in many ways.

Also, it seems like many Swedes are picking on Stockholm in this thread. I live there and have never heard this word in use. We don't live in a protective bubble. We laugh as much at this word as you do. Stop moving here, it's crowded.

 

[Maevine]

My husband and I agreed last year that if Romney became president, we would move there. But Sweden just sounds better and better every day... I think we might just save up and move there anyway <.<;;

EDIT: To the person above me: We'll choose some place less crowded

 

[Hampulina]

Holy shit! What is this thing? Where am I?
Is this thread real?
You guys do realise that this thing has not changed ANYTHING except that there is now a "hipster" stereotype of parents that get a bit upset when their child gets called him or her.


The ONLY thing this word have managed to do is give us a new slurr to call people that look a bit inbetween genders. Hell it's barely even used for that. I might aswell add that the word has been around for aslong as I can remember and I can hardly see how adding it to the swedish dictionary is big news in anywho, why or way.
Oh, and you should probably thank/blame Yohio for this entire thingy, since this whole thing did mysteriously pop-up around the same time he did.

Spoiler

(Another swede here.)
You're pretty spot on (you are a swede I assume?)

The general opinion (at least where I live) is that "hen" is a silly thing by silly, overzealous parents. While I can see the use for a term for when you don't know the gender, the only time I've actually used it was when joking about Yohio during Melodifestivalen (the video).

This is the first time I've heard anything about the word actually getting introduced into schools and kinda worries me since one of the things I appreciate about Sweden is the fact that we don't do things are, well, stupid.

 

[MrHero17]

It's a word for when you don't know someone's gender or the gender isn't important, a lot of people who are up in arms seem to be making it out to be more than that.

 

[repeating integers]

There was an article about some stupid like changing the word "man" to "en". "Man" here is both used as "Markus är en man" = "Markus is a man" and "Man kan bli törstig" = "One can get thirsty". They wanted to change it because of reinforcing gender roles or something stupid. Thankfully it never caught on.

:-/

Sorry, but it is sexist if the generic word for "person" is "man" in your language. Also it kinda breaks my heart to see that it was just taken and ironically used as another way to reinforce gender roles. Things like that make me wonder why I stick up for humanity.

EDIT: I'm actually disappointed at all the Swedes who think this is "silly". I was given to understand you guys were better than this at the whole "progressiveness" business.

 

[generals3]

:-/

Sorry, but it is sexist if the generic word for "person" is "man" in your language. Also it kinda breaks my heart to see that it was just taken and ironically used as another way to reinforce gender roles. Things like that make me wonder why I stick up for humanity.

It's only sexist if you go out of your way to get offended by these things. The French language for instance is extremely masculine but you don't see women riot, because they don't care. For people it's just how the language is and they don't over-think it.

 

[XDravond]

Honestly it's stupid and silly in one way, trying to remove gender... Should I perhaps start to apologize for having a dick?

In another way it's good, it opens up for letting kids choose what they want to play with because I believe that leads to more acceptance of being "different" and then maybe a bit less hate in the world

I do however refuse to be called "hen" I have a dick and called male and the sex I'm interested in has vaginas and called women. There's a few hermaphrodites and some claim to be sexless but the vast majority is either male or female, and word play can not change that... We are how ever equals (in most ways) and no one should be called/treated "bad/stupid/etc" for what they have between their legs.

Oh and for the interested most of the times "hen" could be exchanged for other "sexless" words, (de, dem, dom, den, det for example)... Only time it couldn't be changed is when talking about "hen" as a word....

 

[repeating integers]

It's only sexist if you go out of your way to get offended by these things. The French language for instance is extremely masculine but you don't see women riot, because they don't care. For people it's just how the language is and they don't over-think it.

Oh, it's not offensive. It's more just baggage left over from another time, with different attitudes and prejudices.

Don't get me wrong, it's no more consciously sexist than is any Cracked article about how Theodore Roosevelt was "manly". But it does enforce gender roles.

 

[repeating integers]

There's a few hermaphrodites and some claim to be sexless but the vast majority is either male or female, and word play can not change that...

Surely you should respect their wishes to be called what they want? "Hen" would be a good development for them.

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

:-/

Sorry, but it is sexist if the generic word for "person" is "man" in your language. Also it kinda breaks my heart to see that it was just taken and ironically used as another way to reinforce gender roles. Things like that make me wonder why I stick up for humanity.

EDIT: I'm actually disappointed at all the Swedes who think this is "silly". I was given to understand you guys were better than this at the whole "progressiveness" business.

Eh, it's only sexist if you make it sexist. Any sophisticated culture could distinguish between the word "man" as used to mean, well, man and "man" used to refer to a similar meaning as the english "one". For example, our word for "the lawn" could actually mean "the lawn." It could be referring to a mythical creature. (Roughly a garden gnome). But you would have to be "less intellectually advantaged" to not understand the difference when used in a sentence.

As for your disappointment, well. It is a silly word that not only has no need but also doesn't fit into the language. How would you bend it for example? The way we currently bend the words for man and female is: (Male) Han, Hans, Honom. (Female). Hon, hennes, henne. How does one "bend" Hen? I've seen it bent as "Hen, hens, henom" but that is the masculine way of bending it. And having a gender neutral word is kind of negated by having it be bent in the masculine fashion. It becomes a more pretentious way of saying "Han".

 

[repeating integers]

:-/

Sorry, but it is sexist if the generic word for "person" is "man" in your language. Also it kinda breaks my heart to see that it was just taken and ironically used as another way to reinforce gender roles. Things like that make me wonder why I stick up for humanity.

EDIT: I'm actually disappointed at all the Swedes who think this is "silly". I was given to understand you guys were better than this at the whole "progressiveness" business.

Eh, it's only sexist if you make it sexist. Any sophisticated culture could distinguish between the word "man" as used to mean, well, man and "man" used to refer to a similar meaning as the english "one". For example, our word for "the lawn" could actually mean "the lawn." It could be referring to a mythical creature. (Roughly a garden gnome). But you would have to be "less intellectually advantaged" to not understand the difference when used in a sentence.

As for your disappointment, well. It is a silly word that not only has no need but also doesn't fit into the language. How would you bend it for example? The way we currently bend the words for man and female is: (Male) Han, Hans, Honom. (Female). Hon, hennes, henne. How does one "bend" Hen? I've seen it bent as "Hen, hens, henom" but that is the masculine way of bending it. And having a gender neutral word is kind of negated by having it be bent in the masculine fashion. It becomes a more pretentious way of saying "Han".

That last part is certainly a valid concern - as much as I admire the sentiment, it seems like they should have put more thought into this.

It also doesn't help that I don't know any Swedish, or anything that resembles any Swedish, so I'm kind of out of my depth here. I'm also quite tired, so I'll drop my point here.

*snippism*

For the record, I have always thought "mankind" seemed a bit of an odd term.