I have never seen any Sword Art Online, so character knowledge aside, the entire situation just sounds silly. It just seemed like one of those totally random acts of violence that get confused somewhere along the line and become rape. I believe sexual assault can be portrayed effectively, but this is evidently not one of those times.
Sword Art Online and sexual assault as tension(spoilers for SAO II)
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Perhaps you're not familiar with what goes on in anime yet. Out of the total library of anime maybe 5-10% is actually worth watching and recommending, and the remaining 90% is pointless/mediocre trash. Anime gets mass-produced (a bit like Bollywood movies) so there's basically an OCEAN of stuff coming out every year.Izanagi009 said:
I'll save you a lot of trouble, just go to myanimelist.net/topanime and start watching the top 100-200. That should keep you busy enough and help you steer clear of garbage. SAO was at least watchable, but criticizing SAOII is just silly.
An anime has to be actually WORTH criticism, otherwise you'll be spending the next 10 years criticizing all the shitty anime. You really want to do that?
Again, I'm doing a set of reviews that I am now calling "Anime Chop Block" where I basically take a show I've watched either fully or three episodes worth (3 Episodes Rule is the working title for the impressions series) and either bash it or recoomend it based on standard metric.Aaron Sylvester said:
The first review is Aldnoah: Zero [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.861799-Anime-review-Aldnoah-Zero#21452323] and I will sum up my thoughts with the following video
yeah, not that good
Tentative will be Captain Earth and Fate Zero for the full review and Terraformers for the Three Episode Rule
edit: Also, I find merit in bashing the mediocre and pointless stuff, the more people know of their flaws, the more likely it won't be repeated
I don't think the worst aspect of SAO is that it's badly written but more that it's brutally dishonest and lacks self-awareness in how it presents its self.
It tries to have strong female characters but doesn't have clue what "strong" means. Basically every story has come down to a "strong" female character needing rescue by Kirito the generically handsome strong guy.
To clarify, they aren't weak because they need help, they're weak because they always need help and the opportunities they're given to return the favor are token moments at the most, and almost invariably involve getting rid of lowly mooks. Seriously, why can't Sinon keep it together when facing her trauma but Kirito can when he faces the same dilemma? It really hits home the fact that no matter the circumstance, Kirito will outperform every other character where it actually counts. If it were up to Kirito to use a rifle with a busted scope to save Sinon from Death Gun, he would without a doubt land the shot just in the nick of time, whereas Sinon was incapable of assisting Kirito because of her busted scope.
It always comes down to that because that's the scenario the author always depicts in the end. Kirito ultimately saves the day and another waifu is added to the collection. Not a single female character in this story has actually been able to solve their own problems, resolve any major plots, or at the very least save their own skins in dire scenarios. It doesn't help that they're barely characters at all on top of being incompetent physically and mentally.
Also don't forget how the "strong women" in SAO are only really "strong" before they meet Kirito. Asuna goes from someone we're constantly told is one of the strongest players in the game, responsible for making considerable progress in saving everyone's lives, to Kirito's domesticated housewife whose only ambition in life is "to be with [Kirito]." Her only bit of action in the 2nd half of the first season was an attempted escape that culminated in her being sexually abused, and she became a sexual abuse target AGAIN just a few episodes later. In GGO, she's literally nothing but a cheerleader who holds her husbando's hand despite being ostensibly just as capable as Kirito of investigating Desu Gun.
Sinon was shown to be strong and capable and awesome before she met Kirito, but from the moment Kirito enters the picture she's constantly losing her cool around him, always flustered, and needs him to come to the rescue. Sure, that's because the "plot" necessitated his rescuing her, but it's a pattern SAO consistently repeats. You build up these extremely capable women and have them slowly, over the course of a few weeks, become completely dependent on Kirito for survival and emotional support.
It's a male-centric power fantasy story, so it's not exactly surprising. But that's how the series works.
And it's just revolting that the only way SAO seems to know to make us hate its villains is to have them try to rape someone, because according to the author the only stake girls can have in a narrative are either A) something/someone assaulting their naughty bits or B) death.
It tries to have strong female characters but doesn't have clue what "strong" means. Basically every story has come down to a "strong" female character needing rescue by Kirito the generically handsome strong guy.
To clarify, they aren't weak because they need help, they're weak because they always need help and the opportunities they're given to return the favor are token moments at the most, and almost invariably involve getting rid of lowly mooks. Seriously, why can't Sinon keep it together when facing her trauma but Kirito can when he faces the same dilemma? It really hits home the fact that no matter the circumstance, Kirito will outperform every other character where it actually counts. If it were up to Kirito to use a rifle with a busted scope to save Sinon from Death Gun, he would without a doubt land the shot just in the nick of time, whereas Sinon was incapable of assisting Kirito because of her busted scope.
It always comes down to that because that's the scenario the author always depicts in the end. Kirito ultimately saves the day and another waifu is added to the collection. Not a single female character in this story has actually been able to solve their own problems, resolve any major plots, or at the very least save their own skins in dire scenarios. It doesn't help that they're barely characters at all on top of being incompetent physically and mentally.
Also don't forget how the "strong women" in SAO are only really "strong" before they meet Kirito. Asuna goes from someone we're constantly told is one of the strongest players in the game, responsible for making considerable progress in saving everyone's lives, to Kirito's domesticated housewife whose only ambition in life is "to be with [Kirito]." Her only bit of action in the 2nd half of the first season was an attempted escape that culminated in her being sexually abused, and she became a sexual abuse target AGAIN just a few episodes later. In GGO, she's literally nothing but a cheerleader who holds her husbando's hand despite being ostensibly just as capable as Kirito of investigating Desu Gun.
Sinon was shown to be strong and capable and awesome before she met Kirito, but from the moment Kirito enters the picture she's constantly losing her cool around him, always flustered, and needs him to come to the rescue. Sure, that's because the "plot" necessitated his rescuing her, but it's a pattern SAO consistently repeats. You build up these extremely capable women and have them slowly, over the course of a few weeks, become completely dependent on Kirito for survival and emotional support.
It's a male-centric power fantasy story, so it's not exactly surprising. But that's how the series works.
And it's just revolting that the only way SAO seems to know to make us hate its villains is to have them try to rape someone, because according to the author the only stake girls can have in a narrative are either A) something/someone assaulting their naughty bits or B) death.
Yea, no hint of cultural elitism there at all whatsoever.Aaron Sylvester said:
The same exact thing has been said of every form of entertainment ever, whether it's TV shows or movies or music etc. The bottom line is what's "worth watching" and what's "pointless/mediocre trash" will vary greatly depending on the viewer's taste, and personally I'd never presume to be arrogant enough to declare what's "trash" to other people, I leave that to the elitists and the fanboys.
There's legitimate complains, and then there's nitpicking while missing the context. The whole point of that act was to have the prediction line show up to distract Death Gun, no one was going to be able to hit anything without a scope.lucky_sharm said:
Try saying that again after Mother's Rosaria and Alicization.
Yes, because secret government agency working with a teenager top solve a criminal case isn't ridiculous enough as it is(thank god it's not a recurrent theme), we totally needed another one added to the mix.
Yea, totally, I mean, the main bad in Aliciztion (aka half of the entire story) is yet another rapey dude... oh wait.
Look, I have a few problems with your comments. 1) Sinon did save herself. She forced away the syringe away and fought off her attacker at several points. 2) By the time Kirito interferes, the rapey moment is already over. The attacker starts mumbling about sending sinon to the next world, he is trying to kill her. 3) Kirito did not save her. She has not been saved. Her attacker is still in the apartment, as is she. We have not seen the conclusion yet.
That said, you also need to remember that fiction has multiple levels. No, SAO isn't the deepest anime out there, but it isn't trying to be. It is weak plotting to use the same plot device over and over again, but at least the SAO way is more interesting than saving the world every arc like DBZ.
That said, you also need to remember that fiction has multiple levels. No, SAO isn't the deepest anime out there, but it isn't trying to be. It is weak plotting to use the same plot device over and over again, but at least the SAO way is more interesting than saving the world every arc like DBZ.
Wait, I can't tell if this post is meant to be sarcastic. Are you actually saying that I'm being an elitist every time I say that something sucks? Because the way I see it, the media is full to bursting with things that suck, I sure hope these feelings aren't coming from a place of arrogance.kyp275 said:
Having read the light novel, I can guarantee that she is saved, now comments on the other forum says that she helps Kirito out by smashing a radio on the attacker's head but the rapey moment and the fact that this is the second time this has happened does not make me happy. I might be overreacting, I admit it but I know this happens a third time in the next arc to two helpers of Kirito and a friend and at this point I want to throw my hands to say f the author.spartan231490 said:
Also, even popcorn media has varying levels of quality. Jojo's is better than SAO despite not having thematic narratives or excellent story telling because it's characters all get the spotlight among other reasons compared to SAO which shoves it's cast aside for Kirito to do stupid crap. Just because it's not deep doesn't mean it's not exempt from criticism; You can make a good popcorn anime that doesn't insult our intelligence or use the same exploitative trope over and over.
There's legitimate limitations to the abilities of characters, and then there's purposefully tailoring every scenario to get Kirito to whoop every main baddie solo while everyone else is in the background is either "helping out" or completely useless.
People were saying the same thing before GGO started, and the same thing about SAO's female characters before SAO's first season aired. I'm starting to learn not to trust the judgment of these people.
Weren't there are few people in this thread saying "its fiction stop thinking so hard about it" with regards to the crappily unbelievable aspects of this story? Why not apply that here? Or don't create such a bloated and useless cast to begin with when there's only one character that can move anything along plotwise (and not just characters talking about how such and such character did X wonderful thing that the audience never sees or experiences).
I think you're over-reacting. My point wasn't that it's bad, but should be excused because it's "popcorn fiction." My point is that it is VERY GOOD at what it does. It's an epic hero story, it's not a feminine empowerment story. That said, I don't think that you're forgetting about some of the most important lives that were "saved." If not for Asuna, the 75 boss would have killed Kirito not even 2 minutes into the fight. If not Sugu, and the two faction leaders(women) kirito would have never made it into the world tree. If not for Sinon, Kirito never would have lasted long enough to find out death gun's name.Izanagi009 said:
Also, while I haven't seen it, if Sinon bashed in the guy's skull with a radio, she saved her own damn self. Even if she didn't, she and Kirito fought together to win. If it were two men, or two women, it would be a classic "power of friendship" line, but because it's a man and a woman it has to be him saving her.
I suppose but I have grown cynical of SAO given how much I heard about the supposedly bad writing. Even so, there still seems to be an uncomfortable element of self-insert in SAO that I can't shake but I suppose I could be very wrong.spartan231490 said:
Also, lets put it into perceptive how much I think SAO is bad. Blazblue has better writing than SAO. I'm not referring to the anime adaptation (which is horrible), I am referring to the game's story mode. There are more characters that drive the plot, most everyone gets some sort of development or conflict, Hell even the joke character, Bang, gets a big boost in the story and becomes important. When a story in a genre normally known for extremely bad excuse plots is better than a full on LN, I think there is an issue.
Oi vey...you called this an epic hero story...
Look, Star Wars: A New Hope is a classic epic hero story, even the damsel in distress has her moments and presence as a character even when she doesn't participate in the final battle of that movie, and most of all no one tries to rape her. SAO is not a classic tale by any definition. You do not need to be a feminine empowerment story to treat female characters with a modicum of dignity.
Honestly, why does Kirito need to show up at all? If nothing else, this could have been the moment for Sinon to actually prove that she's matured and grown from her experiences, you know like how actual character development works? But sadly the author always resorts to his baser instincts and turns every girl into a damsel for Kirito to save at some point.
And finally, you don't a power of friendship theme to have characters work together or vomit up cliches so wretched we're lucky the world didn't end, which is another reoccurring aspect of this show.
Look, Star Wars: A New Hope is a classic epic hero story, even the damsel in distress has her moments and presence as a character even when she doesn't participate in the final battle of that movie, and most of all no one tries to rape her. SAO is not a classic tale by any definition. You do not need to be a feminine empowerment story to treat female characters with a modicum of dignity.
This comes back to what I said previously about token moments of "helping out" Kirito. Problem is that that's all they do, which is serve as a stepping stone for Kirito to save the day and whoop the latest drooling psycho lunatic rapist whatever. Never are they on forefront actually pushing the story forward of their own accord and independently of other characters.
Honestly, why does Kirito need to show up at all? If nothing else, this could have been the moment for Sinon to actually prove that she's matured and grown from her experiences, you know like how actual character development works? But sadly the author always resorts to his baser instincts and turns every girl into a damsel for Kirito to save at some point.
And finally, you don't a power of friendship theme to have characters work together or vomit up cliches so wretched we're lucky the world didn't end, which is another reoccurring aspect of this show.
It's all in how you said it. Put it this way, I greatly dislike most rap and what passes for hip-pop musics these days, but for me I recognize that I'm simply not the intended audience for them anymore, whether due to the change in the product or my own taste. It certainly doesn't mean they have somehow objectively turned into something that suck, as if that's even possible anyway for things where the only meaningful measure of success depends on purely subjective personal tastes, at least that's how you came across to me.ObserverStatus said:
If Kirito busting in the door and kicking Shinkawa off her counts as saving Shinon, why is it when Shinon knocks out Shinkawa for good as he's actually attempting to murder Kirito only ?helping out?? Do you seriously not see the double standard here? That's like saying Han Solo saved Luke from Vader in Ep.4, and Luke was really just ?helping? Han out when he blew up the Death Star.Izanagi009 said:
To you perhaps, personally I can't stand to even entertain the thought of watching Jojo, the art style itself hurts my brains whenever I see it.
Kirito is in like all of 10 pages (if even that) in MR, and in Alicization, the primary reason for his ?OP-ness?, aka having spent more time than most people in full-dive, effectively evaporates.lucky_sharm said:
Sigh, the reasoning behind those posts is that if you try to reduce everything in a fictional world down and compare them to the real world, the only way it'd not have holes would be to turn the settings into carbon copies of the non-fictional, aka the real world. That however, doesn't mean you can turn it around and effectively say that since you have to use suspension of disbelief for this setting, why not have THAT setting ? aka, ?Well, if i'm supposed to believe that there are talking horses in My Little Pony, why can't we have talking Sharks with Lasers in the show too??.
Yes, because you've really seen all of SAO already, and is therefore able to make such definitive statement about what is or isn't in the story.lucky_sharm said:
Funny how the above also applies here, because you've obviously already seen what's in the rest of the arc.
Once again, I will admit to overstepping and will concede on your point. The fact remains though that I still remain cynical about SAO and it's writing and the fact that Asuna seems so designed to be a waifu bait character and the stupid cousin love triange was added does more to make me think that this is not a good story but a self-insertkyp275 said:
The bolded part I will explain, (the rest of the post is fine even if I have no problems with the show itself) Kirito after SAO had time to cope with his actions and had tons of help to overcome it from many of his friends. Sinon while strong in game was always mentally weak outside the game. Only friend she's shown to have was the guy who recently tried to kill her, so yeah she was shunned after he actions with the gun. It's annoying when people don't mention this with her in this 3rd season....lucky_sharm said:
Other then that though yeah cliche bullcrap, abiet like I said bullcrap I don't mind since it's just entertainment.
I really just want to reiterate that you do not need to write a "feminine empowerment" story to have a story with decent female characters. That legitimately hurt to read.
I don't think sharks with lasers is quite on the same level as making use of characters or if the current scenario doesn't allow it, tailor the story in a way that does.
The latest arc hasn't started yet so details are light, but given that the author has proven time and again that he has no self-awareness, imagination, or any notion of subtlety, its safe to guess what will happen next once it does begin.
I can't give sword art online the time of day.
At best it's a poor man's .hack at worst, it's the worst written anime I ever had to sit through.
I don't understand why this show is pop~! oh . . . I understand completely.
This show is just fan fiction without the use of official copy-written characters.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Sakuga videos I wouldn't give Sword Art Online even a passing glance.
It's just a show with pretty animation and some nice character design, but otherwise, it's just a animated power fantasy . . .
I think if I can commend anything it's that the author's up front with why he wrote it a certain way. It's an otaku's wet dream.
At best it's a poor man's .hack at worst, it's the worst written anime I ever had to sit through.
I don't understand why this show is pop~! oh . . . I understand completely.
This show is just fan fiction without the use of official copy-written characters.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Sakuga videos I wouldn't give Sword Art Online even a passing glance.
It's just a show with pretty animation and some nice character design, but otherwise, it's just a animated power fantasy . . .
I think if I can commend anything it's that the author's up front with why he wrote it a certain way. It's an otaku's wet dream.
In what ever way can the real world be represented by the carbon copy. I've understood the human experience as something less than completely original or more vast than all fiction. I mean you got different characters and experiences that shape people beyond any possible trope imaginable. Besides, how you ground a character's reasoning and how things happen is completely based on how well the writer can understand their own experience. It doesn't make sense how by just focusing on that, and analyzing those things how a writer would HAVE to have any avoidable holes. Also confused what your arguing in the second point, unless your interpreting other's points. I really think authors often do set ground rules on what is possible and it more often than not reflects their reality. Sure you have a ridiculous premise here but that's often explained to be woven in as part of the "rules". I strongly believe that many people who write fiction create a setting with all made up circumstances but have exceptions set to fill in the world that otherwise is supposed to reflect our own. A universe made from anew would seem too much work for a writer as any sense of understanding depart from a reader relating it to a realistic grounds would have to be addressed in order to make a form of sense. For MLP, besides the fact that the animals are magical and anything else the writers make a point to mention, everything else has a realistic grounding such as an understanding of human relationships that the audience praises it for.kyp275 said:
Wait, SAO used rape again? Well, technically they used the threat of rape once already when they replaced the main villain in the first season/series with a guy who kidnaps one of the female leads. That always irked me. They take the one girl who is on par with, if not better than, Kirito and reduce her to a damsel. Sorry, let me get back on topic.
OT: So what you're telling me is that they used the threat of rape again? Sounds tiresome and un-creative *yawn*
OT: So what you're telling me is that they used the threat of rape again? Sounds tiresome and un-creative *yawn*