Sword Art Online... What sorcery is this?

[Kalikin]

If you think SAO is some kind of hidden gem, you can't have looked around THAT much. While it didn't become as widespread as Shingeki no Kyojin, it was/is a VERY popular show. It's also been the go-to internet whipping boy for the anime industry being trash since it finished airing.

My own thoughts are that the show was garbage; the first arc was merely mediocre if enjoyable, and the second was horrendous - and unlike many others who found it strange and offputting, the drama with his sister was the only part I found compelling.

As for why I say this, you could say I'm just bitter because I WANTED to like it. The first episode was excellent, and I thought the show established each character's fear of permanent death really well, especially with Kirito mentioning he was going to be getting out of the low-level areas as soon as possible to avoid declining mob populations when everyone tries to grind on them.

But then the show moved far too quickly, with too long taking place between episodes: I felt that the show wasn't giving me crucial information about the world and the society that was forming. And then the harem elements really got to me.

The show also hinted at what could have developed into some very interesting themes (I think if handled well it could have easily outdone Dot Hack at what Dot Hack was lauded for, even if I wasn't a fan of that show either). For instance, above with the talk of mobs. Kirito knew what to do to get to a high level and quickly, but chose not to pass any of that information on - exactly what he and the other beta testers were accused of doing, yet when that drama comes up he's framed as being completely in the right, and his accusers just come off as an irrational mob. Otherwise you have the guardsmen in the Town of Beginnings who are abusing their self-made positions. Doesn't get brought up again outside that one episode, though. How about a better exposition of the PKers? The show seemed packed with interesting plot points that could be taken up, but it focuses it's attention on Kirito being popular with all the major females plus a cynically constructed not-daughter to make up drama. I don't think you can even say that works with the show's internal logic, because those characters aren't NPCs - they're real people who are completely outside Kirito's "wish fulfillment", and the reason he's so strong has a much darker reality to it than the show wants to acknowledge in any depth.

So just to reiterate after my long rant, I wanted to like the show but it failed to deliver anything more than mediocrity.

I'm interested in why you're so down on Shingeki no Kyojin, though. That's a show I only started watching because I wanted to be able to specifically tell my friends why shounen anime is so bad - and then it was pretty much the greatest thing ever and impressive on multiple levels. It's easily a "top five" sort of show for me.

 

[syaoran728]

I really don't like SAO. Kirito is just too boring of a protagonist for me to get invested in anything that happens. If you like the series I won't hold anything against you, but I advise you to check out Accel World. Its from the same author and has better characters and a better paced story.

 

[Dansen]

I can't give a unbiased opinion seeing as SAO is one of my top 5 anime. I enjoyed the Alfiem Arc, unlike everyone else and am hoping to see Gun Gale Online become a reality.

Hell it was so good it let Log Horizon become a thing... and that show is terrible.

So many missed opertunities, it could have been a classic.

How is Gun Gale bad? I've never read the LNs so I only know the premise.

And don't worry bro, you didn't offend me. Different strokes for different folks. I actually will disagree with the main character for Log Horizon not being overpowered, he is. In the six episodes I watched, not one of his tactics failed to bring them victory (As I remember it). Those binding thorns are the very definition of OP. To give it credit though, it did nail the FEEL of an MMO. There are classes and sub-classes and it actually felt like an MMO. SAO I will admit did not feel like an MMO.

To be honest I never finished the light novels for gungale because they were so bad and uneccesary. These are just five things that stick out in my mind imediately as uneccesary and pandering.

1. Kirito gets recruted to do freelance work by some secret government police agency devoted to cyber crimes and they esentailly bend over backwards for him because he is good at video games and there is no one else with his amazing skills.
2. Kirito manages to beat a minigame that nobody in the history of the game has come close to beating but does it easily getting millions of dollars instantly.
3. Kirito gets a lightsaber, since this is a shooter, there are no melee weapons really. Except for a lightsaber, but everyone conciders it shit because you have to get up close with it and by then you are probably dead. However Kirito is so great that he can move insanly fast and has the reflexes to dodge and cut bullets with his sword. I'm not kidding. I'm pretty sure he blocks a round from an anti-material rifle at some point.
4. There is another token love intrest. A shy emotionally broken girl that imediatly falls for Kirito. Its even more messed up than the cousin thing cause she is traumatized by some past experience with guns. but its okay here comes Kirito to solve all your problems.
5. His character has the apearence of a girl, thus he is accidently rushed into the girls changing room(don't know why there would be one in a game). You figure out the rest.

A ton of steriotipical male fantasies packed into one. Its just a trashy uneccesary cash in. At least you can atempt to justify ELFhiem

 

[Lovely Mixture]

It's hard for me to resist coming into this thread and being a debbie-downer. But I'll only say that, as you can probably guess my feelings on SAO.

 

[Moderated]

I hope it doesn't get worse.

I'm sorry, but it does.
The first half is amazing, the second half is watchable.

 

[lord canti]

It starts off strong, but then unfortunately turns into a jumbled mess of a story with no sense of pacing. Though i heard the light novels were far superior than the anime was. Can anyone verify that?

 

[niknar266]

I think my enjoyment of SAO was hindered by me overthinking a little too much. The set up was sort of interesting but being a programmer I didn't buy the one programmer hiding the death trap locking players in the game. Also 2 years and no one on the outside could do anything bull**** give a large group of hackers a few months they could tamper with the servers probably circumventing the nerve gear tampering killing players. Could have even just gave the players random aid every so often before being locked out by Kayaba again. Would have gave a little more reason to Kirito's random deus ex machinas (albeit they were pretty cool sometimes).

Also felt SAO fell into the trap some anime fall into of not quitting while they're ahead (e.g Death Note). Should have been 25 Episodes of SAO cut Elfhiem Online focus more on developing Kirito and Asuna first rather than a ton of episodes establishing side characters who only appear once or twice (Although could dot these out through out the series still). It's not a bad anime by a long stretch I really enjoyed it visually it had great animation and it's soundtrack which I still listen to some songs of occasionally.

Although I also enjoy kill la kill which has a much more stupid plot than SAO because I went into it knowing it would be pants on head silly and something to be watched with my brain turned off (weird how mindsets effect enjoyment of entertainment). Also really enjoying Log Horizon even though it has some flaws similar to SAO like the main characters being a bit OP with his vines (still kinda using them in sort of smart ways like the cooldown timer combo with the cat guy). I'm liking it's actually taking time to establish it's world rather than skipping time constantly. I can see the characters not dying being a problem with me not caring if someone dies (DBZ effect) really hoping they reverse that with the opening showing someone dying and it looking permanent as someone looks sad about it.

 

[mitchell271]

You should have seen the hype here when the show was airing and when it had just finished. The forums were going ape-shit over the show!

Anyways, the reason people don't care about it any more, is because we all collectively realised that the second season kind of sucked. Asuna becomes a plot device and the whole romance wasn't that well done to begin with. I mean it goes something like, "You're cool. I hate you! I like you... You're awesome. Let's get married!" Makes no sense!

Action was pretty good though

 

[Dr. Cakey]

snip

Every anime character you've seen a dozen times before, maybe. He is the protagonist, he is uber powerful, and gets the ladies. It's all true. But this anime deals with it's bullshit in a clever way, that being it's set in an MMO. Where half the bullshit is easily justifiable by that internal logic alone. What excuse does AoT have? Oh right, none.

You say SAO justifies itself by being an MMO, whereas from my perspective it specifically fails to justify itself for exactly the same reason.

Of course Kirito is uber powerful, he was a beta tester, and on top of that he did more in the beta than other testers did. He knows the game. He knows where the good loot is, where the powerful monsters are, where to get good items. That's what you need to succeed in an MMO and it justifies his seemingly insane power. Of course he was able to take on tons of people in a 6 on 1 fight, he's 20 levels above them. He gets married to a chick he barely knows at first and they get a house and start to pretty much live happily ever after, because it's a game.

Those...hm. Some of those are accurate, though a number are just plain wrong. More to the point, though, that's a rather selective view of the events of SAO. For instance, you've chosen to entirely ignore that during the final battle in episode fourteen, in which Kirito's health is reduced to zero but he survives anyway. Why? Because he's the main character, and he has to survive. I've almost never seen something with so little "justification", to use your word.

You want new and interesting, I think you'd do better to just check yourself out of the anime scene. Judging by the state of things, new and interesting is not the direction the business is in

Good sir, I take offense at this statement. Attack on Titan isn't some creation ex nihilo work of genius, but it's pretty fresh, certainly fresher than SAO. It really nails its bleak tone, the Titans are bizarrely (and somewhat comedically) terrifying, and when the animation is on, it's on like nothing else ever made. I just mention AoT because of its popularity - deserved, I might add - but there's plenty of originality in anime. Granted, Casual Shinji agrees with you, but he's, well, wrong. It was just last year that Shin Sekai Yori came out, after all. Now that was an anime.

Enjoy the second season of SAO, by the way. I loved season two. That wasn't just so bad it's good, it's so bad it's amazing. I think the last time I saw something so exploitative was Elfen Lied.

Hell it was so good it let Log Horizon become a thing... and that show is terrible.

Log Horizon blew my mind. I didn't think it was possible to make a good anything about an MMO...and then it happened.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Every anime character you've seen a dozen times before, maybe. He is the protagonist, he is uber powerful, and gets the ladies. It's all true. But this anime deals with it's bullshit in a clever way, that being it's set in an MMO. Where half the bullshit is easily justifiable by that internal logic alone. What excuse does AoT have? Oh right, none.

Of course Kirito is uber powerful, he was a beta tester, and on top of that he did more in the beta than other testers did. He knows the game. He knows where the good loot is, where the powerful monsters are, where to get good items. That's what you need to succeed in an MMO and it justifies his seemingly insane power. Of course he was able to take on tons of people in a 6 on 1 fight, he's 20 levels above them. He gets married to a chick he barely knows at first and they get a house and start to pretty much live happily ever after, because it's a game.

You want new and interesting, I think you'd do better to just check yourself out of the anime scene. Judging by the state of things, new and interesting is not the direction the business is in

It sounds like you're saying 'it's an MMO setting, so it's allowed to cheat and lack tension of any kind, because it's a game'. Okay... how is that fun to watch again? This could work if Kirito had an interesting personality or motive, but he's just the blank, rogue character for the audience to project themselves on.

The first episode held a lot of promise with all the game characters reverting to how they look in the real world, but apparently everyone in the real world still looks like a supermodel.

AoT doesn't need to make excuses, atleast till about episode 8, because in that time it presents you with characters that can die at any moment. And even after the dumb twist, the setting is solid as a rock and something rarely seen in anime.

 

[Auron225]

I loved it overall. The premise, the characters, the visuals were all great - I particularly liked the fear it created of "if this little colored HP bar drops to zero you will die!"

I'll admit though that the pacing was pretty awful - it was too rushed. It felt like they planned to make the first season 50 episodes long and were suddenly told last minute that they only get 1/4 of that. And so Kirito was ludicrously badass within a few episodes. I honestly would have enjoyed a few fillers if they had shown his level progression a little more; so many missed opportunities for sub-plots.

Also, yeah Season 2 was nowhere near as good (although I still liked it a lot). The villain had no motive whatsoever so he was basically just evil for the lulz. Also they removed the fear of death and demoted a promising female lead character into a damsel in distress. I did fear for her character, but at the expense of fear for any other character or any other feeling about her - not a good trade-off.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I haven't gotten around the second season as the completion of the Aincrad arc just seemed like a fitting end to the series. I might eventually get around to following it beyond, but otherwise, I really have no plans to watch it.

Anyways, I did enjoy the first season. It's pacing was horrible. The sense of progression was hardly there as Kirito would jump levels by the double digits between episodes, and the romance between him and Asuna just felt rushed. Still, I came to care about the characters and their struggle, so it wasn't all bad from a writing perspective. Not to mention, the artwork was beautiful and the action was enjoyable to watch.

Personally, though, I'm enjoying Log Horizon more. It isn't as good with regards to action, but I think it does a better job of portraying an MMO and its player base, both in and out of game, than Sword Art Online did. I'm just hoping that they actually deliver on the commentary they keep alluding to. Given my luck recently, though, all its comments about bigger issues might have just been me reading too much into conversations.

Hell it was so good it let Log Horizon become a thing... and that show is terrible.

Well, I'd agree that the first few episodes of Log Horizon were mediocre at best, especially if you're expecting it to be another SAO, and I almost stopped watching it after how horrible the first episode was. After that, though, I think it improved its quality a lot. Still not good if you're just expecting it to be another SAO, but I at least think it started working better with the premise it set for itself.

 

[bearlotz]

Spoiler: Hipster self-identification for your courtesy

So I guess that'd make me some sort of Anime Hipster

So we can both be hipsters together.

I'm rather curious, what anime would you two recommend? I don't always enjoy "hipster" fare, but it's usually interesting at any rate.

OT: I liked the first part well enough, not "set the world on fire" type stuff but not offensively bad either. Then the second part happened and I figured it was a cash-in done by the studio...until I discovered that there were in fact 4 light-novels in the original story. If it ended after the first season it probably would have been much higher on my list.

 

[CrazyCrab]

Well I liked it, at least the 1st part.
At the same time for me its indefinitely better than Attack on Titan simply because how much I hate the main character there and from what I found out from people spoiling it how messed up it is. It is the 1st anime other that Bleach that I haven't finished and I haven't finished that one simply because its way too long for me.

 

[Moderated]

For instance, you've chosen to entirely ignore that during the final battle in episode fourteen, in which Kirito's health is reduced to zero but he survives anyway. Why? Because he's the main character, and he has to survive. I've almost never seen something with so little "justification", to use your word.

My thought pattern when that happened was "How the hell, oh yeah, the bring back to life item!"

 

[VanQ]

It's a story about MMO players playing an MMO by a person that loves MMOs. You'll find a lot of people that hate MMOs or grinding that claim SAO is rubbish. It's not the best thingin the world, but it's apparent that it's for a niche audience. I loved it personally, thought the first cour was great and the second cour was passable, though Fairy Dance is the worst arc in the novels.

I highly recommend reading the novels OP. They're a lot more fleshed out and getinto the meat of the mechanics of the game and a bit of lore that they skipped in the anime for pacing and time reasons. A lot of people claim Kirito is "broody" but really that's just how he looks when he's thinking about the game mechanics and how to use them to his advantage.

And fuck. He's 15. 15 year olds tend to brood.

Those...hm. Some of those are accurate, though a number are just plain wrong. More to the point, though, that's a rather selective view of the events of SAO. For instance, you've chosen to entirely ignore that during the final battle in episode fourteen, in which Kirito's health is reduced to zero but he survives anyway. Why? Because he's the main character, and he has to survive. I've almost never seen something with so little "justification", to use your word.

And you've chosen to entirely ignore that Klein was present in the room, and that Kirito handed over the Revive item to Klein in episode 2 saying "The next time you see someone die in front of you, us this."

Log Horizon blew my mind. I didn't think it was possible to make a good anything about an MMO...and then it happened.

Oh sweet lord. Log Horizon is just plain awful. It's watchable but absolutely boring as hell when all the characters are level cap to start with, smash a raid boss with a group of 3 and when the MC wins every fight because "I'm so smart" and "muh thorns."

 

[Dr. Cakey]

My thought pattern when that happened was "How the hell, oh yeah, the bring back to life item!"

And you've chosen to entirely ignore that Klein was present in the room, and that Kirito handed over the Revive item to Klein in episode 2 saying "The next time you see someone die in front of you, us this."

That's...disconcertingly clever. The fact that I missed it is concerning, because broadly speaking I tend to miss nothing, but that's enough to bump SAO from a 5 to a 5.1. Because numerical ratings are concrete concepts and have actual meaning.

Wait, but Klein didn't see anyone die in front of him in all those - no, stop it, Dr. Cakey. Give SAO the one compliment, and leave it at that.

It's a story about MMO players playing an MMO by a person that loves MMOs. You'll find a lot of people that hate MMOs or grinding that claim SAO is rubbish. It's not the best thingin the world, but it's apparent that it's for a niche audience. I loved it personally, thought the first cour was great and the second cour was passable, though Fairy Dance is the worst arc in the novels.

I'd hardly say SAO has much of anything to do with MMOs. Log Horizon has more MMO material in its first five minutes than the whole Aincrad Arc. And considering SAO's popularity [http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=692639], I'm not sure the argument that it's "for a niche audience" holds much water.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

The first season was damn enjoyable. It wasn't anything unique or special but it was done well. As for the second season, holy shit that dropped in quality. They should have just stuck with the original premise in Aincrad for the whole show.

 

[lordmardok]

I think this sums it up pretty well.

Spoiler

inb4 Attack on Titan lovers flame me.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

I loved it overall. The premise, the characters, the visuals were all great - I particularly liked the fear it created of "if this little colored HP bar drops to zero you will die!"

I'll admit though that the pacing was pretty awful - it was too rushed. It felt like they planned to make the first season 50 episodes long and were suddenly told last minute that they only get 1/4 of that. And so Kirito was ludicrously badass within a few episodes. I honestly would have enjoyed a few fillers if they had shown his level progression a little more; so many missed opportunities for sub-plots.

Also, yeah Season 2 was nowhere near as good (although I still liked it a lot). The villain had no motive whatsoever so he was basically just evil for the lulz. Also they removed the fear of death and demoted a promising female lead character into a damsel in distress. I did fear for her character, but at the expense of fear for any other character or any other feeling about her - not a good trade-off.

And here I thought I was gonna go through this whole thread without seeing this kind of post ONCE. Christ guys, it wasn't THAT bad >.> Yeah, sure, the attention to one new chick each new arc was kinda iffy, and sure, the adoption of the girl and later incesty thingy was also iffy. Hell, the whole second season obviously is not as good as the first when we have a villian with less reason to be there, and no worry about death, but... I thought it was great.

There could've been more episodes to show more of the world and how everything falls into place. I would've loved that. But even then, I see the show as a lovely bit of action, and I felt for our two protagonists. Hell, I got UBER pissed whenever Kayaba would get all grabby and ugh with Asuna... Made me wanna rip the guy apart. There isn't a chance in hell I would feel that way if the show didn't make me care. So... while I can see why it gets a lot of hate, I dunno if it deserves as much hate as everyone gives it