SWTOR space combat makes me want to play SWG

[Sayvara]

On my second round into testing of SWTOR I had my heart crushed. Figuratively of course but the revelation that space combat in SWTOR is essentially a point & click rail shooter(!), came as close to physical pain disappointment has ever gotten me.

Before I go on I should perhaps inject that I still have high hopes for SWTOR. BioWare has very obviously looked long and hard at SWG and said "We can do that better", and they are succeeding. The UI is lovely, the graphics are excellent, the character modeling.... well it needs some spit & polish... my bounty hunter, while supposed to be an athletic no-nonsense buttkicker, had shoulders that would give her trouble fitting into the cramped space of a starship's porta-potty and her chest armor was so massively top-heavy Lolo Ferrari would have gone "Damn it girl! Get those reduced!!"... but apart from that the modeling is really good.

SWTOR has all the potential in the world to become SWG without all the annoying kinks and sharp corners you as a beginner would bang your knees and shins on.

But the space combat... good god... I nearly cried... literary. I sat at my keyboard with my jaw in my lap and felt true disappointment. I am genuinely inclined to sub for the last month of SWG and play it.

I do take comfort in knowing that SWG did not even have starships to begin with... they came with Jump To Lightspeed. There is still hope...

/S

 

[Sixcess]

I wouldn't get your hopes up. There's a notorious quote from Daniel Erickson, lead writer, from PAX 10, on the subject of space travel:

"You remember that part where Han Solo and Chewbacca are in the Millennium Falcon? Han's like, 'Hey, Chewie, let's go into space, and let's just dick around. Let's go off in that direction and see if there is anything interesting'? Remember how they went off and there was this asteroid, and they mined the asteroid? Yeah, we couldn't find that either. Two things happened when you went to space. One: You took off to space when you wanted to go somewhere. You took off into hyperspace -- BAM! -- and got there. Two: You wanted to go to a battle or you were trying to go somewhere and someone stopped you. Uh oh! Giant exciting combat! ... That is why we did space combat the way we did."

Source

The entire design philosophy of TOR seems to be to make a highly controlled and linear experience so it's no surprise space combat is on rails. I don't see them changing that stance anytime soon.

 

[danintexas]

Folks always wished for a new X-Wing vs Tie Fighter. I always thought SWG JTL was pretty damn close. Loved doing the PVP in that game in space

 

[Keava]

Of course it is. It was never supposed to be in game. Year ago They said it won't be in for release. But then fans begged and moaned and whined and the devs caved in. And they've put what They had time to do.

Its a mini game. With minimal effect on gameplay. It's there so You can complete daily quests for more xp/cash and kill some time. It's not the core of the experience, just fan-service. Personally I could do without it. I could do without the whole ship thing, but it's obvious nod to KOTOR series. In the end it's nothing but silly filler while You are waiting for friends to log on.

 

[Sayvara]

The entire design philosophy of TOR seems to be to make a highly controlled and linear experience so it's no surprise space combat is on rails. I don't see them changing that stance anytime soon.

Users managed to nag Turbine into not only putting PvP into Dungeons & Dragons Online but also crippling it into complete uselessness. So it all depends on how us space jockeys manage to cry and whine at BioWare.

And as I said: SWG didn't have ships until JTL.

/S

 

[awsome117]

The entire design philosophy of TOR seems to be to make a highly controlled and linear experience so it's no surprise space combat is on rails. I don't see them changing that stance anytime soon.

Users managed to nag Turbine into not only putting PvP into Dungeons & Dragons Online but also crippling it into complete uselessness. So it all depends on how us space jockeys manage to cry and whine at BioWare.

And as I said: SWG didn't have ships until JTL.

/S

Well I don't think that example really works, as SWTOR does have ships. The ships are just on rails though.

Besides having free roaming ships would interfere with the story based structure in my opinion.

 

[Sayvara]

Well I don't think that example really works, as SWTOR does have ships.

The problem was that - unlike SWG where you had a pilot, copilot and turret gunners... where you could get into battle with your friends and work as a team - SWTOR space combat is a single-player point & click thing... there is nothing left of the things that made space combat good in SWG.

Besides having free roaming ships would interfere with the story based structure in my opinion.

That's nonsense. SWG could do it, then SWTOR can do it as well. You just have to break the ships away form the rails, let people sit in the turrets and add shield managment... there is nothing that says you can't combine free-flying space combat with storybased missions.

/S

 

[awsome117]

The problem was that - unlike SWG where you had a pilot, copilot and turret gunners... where you could get into battle with your friends and work as a team - SWTOR space combat is a single-player point & click thing... there is nothing left of the things that made space combat good in SWG.

As the poster above me said, it's mainly just a mini-game.

That's nonsense. SWG could do it, then SWTOR can do it as well. You just have to break the ships away form the rails, let people sit in the turrets and add shield managment... there is nothing that says you can't combine free-flying space combat with storybased missions.

/S

Well of course they can do it, but they shouldn't. SWToR isn't about space combat/flying it's about story. Having the free-flying breaks the flow of the game.

 

[Sincendiary]

It's an MMO, there's always the possibility of new stuff down the pipeline. I could imagine than the "leveling game" could be single player ship stuff and you could have the ability to purchase a ship and man it with a real crew as a max level game add on or expansion feature.

Allods Online has a pretty good example of what crewed ship pvp and pve encounters potentially could do.

It's packaged in an odd, buggy, free to play Russian version of Warcraft but it's kind of innovative and could show Bioware where to start and what to fix.

 

[Sayvara]

Well of course they can do it, but they shouldn't. SWToR isn't about space combat/flying it's about story. Having the free-flying breaks the flow of the game.

Says you and what deity?

No seriously... disregard any hint of snark above and take what I say for respectful dissent: your argument is wrong because there already is space combat in it.

/S

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I wouldn't get your hopes up. There's a notorious quote from Daniel Erickson, lead writer, from PAX 10, on the subject of space travel:

"You remember that part where Han Solo and Chewbacca are in the Millennium Falcon? Han's like, 'Hey, Chewie, let's go into space, and let's just dick around. Let's go off in that direction and see if there is anything interesting'? Remember how they went off and there was this asteroid, and they mined the asteroid? Yeah, we couldn't find that either. Two things happened when you went to space. One: You took off to space when you wanted to go somewhere. You took off into hyperspace -- BAM! -- and got there. Two: You wanted to go to a battle or you were trying to go somewhere and someone stopped you. Uh oh! Giant exciting combat! ... That is why we did space combat the way we did."

Source

The entire design philosophy of TOR seems to be to make a highly controlled and linear experience so it's no surprise space combat is on rails. I don't see them changing that stance anytime soon.

Doesn't surprise me. If Bioware gave people freedom, then it would ruin the story THEY want to tell.

 

[awsome117]

Well of course they can do it, but they shouldn't. SWToR isn't about space combat/flying it's about story. Having the free-flying breaks the flow of the game.

Says you and what deity?

No seriously... disregard any hint of snark above and take what I say for respectful dissent: your argument is wrong because there already is space combat in it.

/S

Says the person who says it should have free-roaming space travel

Not really, as my argument isn't about space combat, it's about free-roaming space travel/combat. Free-roaming space travel/combat breaks the flow of the game.

 

[Sayvara]

Not really, as my argument isn't about space combat, it's about free-roaming space travel/combat. Free-roaming space travel/combat breaks the flow of the game.

I disagree. It worked great in SWG... then there's nothign that says it can't work here.

/S

 

[awsome117]

Not really, as my argument isn't about space combat, it's about free-roaming space travel/combat. Free-roaming space travel/combat breaks the flow of the game.

I disagree. It worked great in SWG... then there's nothign that says it can't work here.

/S

Because SWG wasn't story based, it was free-roaming so naturally it could work. However for SWToR it would break the flow of the story and gameplay.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I've never player SWG, but do remember how frickin' awesome the space combat in SW Battlefront 2 was, I mean, it was all done in a heavily controlled area, quite heavily regulated, so you would retain that linear function bioware want, but you had the freedom to "dick around" on the battlefield: Bomb the capital ships, dogfight with the small enemy fighters, or even just stay in the hangar and defend your base, in other words having fun, which is something I've always found rail shooter segments grossly lack. Remeber when games were made to be fun, not just linear grindfests?

Could you imagine SWTOR with a Battlefront 2 space battle style multiplayer? man, I would subscribe just for that feature!

 

[Sixcess]

Doesn't surprise me. If Bioware gave people freedom, then it would ruin the story THEY want to tell.

Agreed, and Bioware's obsession with 'story' as TOR's unique selling point has led them to create a game that's a horrible parody of an MMO.

This isn't linear in a "start in this zone, then at level 10 go to this zone and work the quests there and so on..." This is linear in the sense that your experience as a Sith Warrior or a Trooper or whatever will be essentially identical to every other player of that class. You WILL do your class quests, you WILL have the same interactions with NPCs (which takes the typical absurdity of MMOs saying you are the chosen one, yeah you and the other million players, to ridiculous extremes.)

I've rolled alts in WoW and, because I was bored with Eversong Woods, I went to Tirisfal Glades and ran my Blood Elf through those quests instead. Try taking your Sith to the Bounty Hunter starter world and see how far you get. This is a game where you can't even enter specific rooms in the so called 'open world' because there's a bloody great red force field in front of the door saying "You are the wrong class to walk into this room", or "You are the right class but it's the wrong time." This isn't even only in quest hubs, but out there in actual questing areas.

Now I've read that the worlds open up a bit later on, but having looked around the first two worlds of each side the world map is a succession of canyons designed to funnel you to exactly where you need to go to continue the story, and nowhere else. Go here, do this, stay on the road because if you leave it you'll hit a convenient rocky wall in a minute or two anyway. Even if the later worlds do open up well I'd rather they didn't wait until virtually the halfway point of the game before they show any trust in letting us do our own thing.

Anyone who says this is typical of MMOs is flat out wrong, or playing the wrong ones. WoW gives more freedom. City of Heroes gives more freedom. LOTRO gives more freedom. Fallen Earth lets you ride your starter horse to the level 50+ zone at level 1 if you really want to.

This is why I say that it's extremely unlikely that TOR will ever introduce free roaming space travel or anything close to it. They don't let us go where we wish on the ground, so they're even less likely to do so in space, and having committed themselves to making the most theme park MMO I have ever played I don't see them changing their mind.

But why would you want to free roam, appears to be their thinking. There's nothing out there anyway, so just shut up and stick to the script, player. If you're very good we'll reward you with another cutscene once you complete the next chapter of 'your' story.

I've said in other threads that I think TOR is a good Bioware game, and it is, but it's a terrible MMO that appears to have been designed by developers who either don't understand the ways in which an MMO can be different from a single player game, or worse yet, don't care.

 

[MrBenSampson]

Cruising around in my clan-mate's battleship was kick-ass in SWG. I also liked hosting parties on my yacht, and parking it with a nice view of the planet below. I miss that game. It's too bad that they're shutting it down next month. I stopped playing after the update that erased all of my stats, and forced me to pick one of those generic classes. Training and selling animals was my source of income in SWG, and that was impossible afterwards. Seeing a jedi had been a rare occurrence until that update, and suddenly the game was swarmed with noobs casting force-lightning.

Anyway, the space-travel and combat in SWG was wonderful, and it's a shame that Bioware didn't decide to emulate it. However, I can't say that it's a surprise.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Cruising around in my clan-mate's battleship was kick-ass in SWG. I also liked hosting parties on my yacht, and parking it with a nice view of the planet below. I miss that game. It's too bad that they're shutting it down next month. I stopped playing after the update that erased all of my stats, and forced me to pick one of those generic classes. Training and selling animals was my source of income in SWG, and that was impossible afterwards. Seeing a jedi had been a rare occurrence until that update, and suddenly the game was swarmed with noobs casting force-lightning.

Anyway, the space-travel and combat in SWG was wonderful, and it's a shame that Bioware didn't decide to emulate it. However, I can't say that it's a surprise.

The space yachts were awesome. I swear, that is one of the things I remember most about that game. Space combat was really fun and open, and I'm really disappointed to hear that the space combat in TOR will be essentially a mini-game.

Of course, I've been repeating "I'm really disappointed to hear" about all of the TOR news lately, so make of that what you will.