Tabletop games: Why are they fun?

[Godhead]

I've always thought that tabletop and pen and paper games were as fun as they were just because of the social aspect. DM's usually aren't a problem, they just seem more frequent than they are because the internet, or if you make them foreverDM's. And the character creation taking a long time really only goes down to inexperience, after a few times it will take a lot less time to make and even then it's more than likely for you to play a character much longer than it took to make him (unless you're playing CoC or something). Remember, games like D&D are 85% socializing, 15% game.

tl;dr character creation gets easier the more you do it, and it's fun when you have fun people to be with. And don't make people only DM.

 

[Garrett]

I'd say the problem is you. No, not your friends, not games but you. If you took similar attitude while trying out those games as you take responding here (short answers, generally unimpressed attitude, feeling of "I'm right you're wrong") then it's no wonder they ganged up on you. If they had to explaing to you same things multiple times then it's even more understandable. See, when you present such attitude you're also killing the game for others and they don't like it. Unfortunately, people have this strange problem of not being able to say mean things stright. So they won't tell you "Dude, look, you're killing our game. We don't want to play with you. Go away (we also don't like you, you stink and *insert 'yo mama' joke*)". No, instead of saying stuff which would clarify things they act. And so, for games they often gang up on someone in the hopes he/she will get discourage and leave and will never be back again. That's what I think happens in your case. Of course, you might be perfectly fine and your "friends" are just dicks. But you got enough posts explaining that case so I'll pass on this.

 

[clippen05]

My personal problem with tabletop games: (Well not DnD or Warhammer but in this case Axis and Allies I don't know if it counts but it is a game you play on a tabletop) Is that it is extremely hard for me to get a group together. When we first got into it we had around 5 people playing and that was perfect but since then we can only get 3 (Including myself) That's not to bad, but considering we've moved on to bigger, more player-versions of the game it is somewhat difficult. Of the people we've tried to introduce to the game, no have liked it. I think this is just a problem of living in a small town so it might be rectified when I head off to college, but still, its made playing difficult.

Why tabletop games ARE fun though? Well, definitely the social element. That's something that you can only get when playing in real life. And also, there's really no equivalent in videogames so these games are very unique; youre not gonna find something similar to Dnd or Axis and Allies online. (For the most part)

 

[RaikuFA]

snip

Thats why I hated it. My DM would pull shit like "Everyone gets a chest *opens chest* spikes come out and you die." Mind you, this was after the very first battle. There was also a Shadowrun campain nearby, but they didn't want newbies around. Said they's consider it if I played DnD first.

 

[Dr. Thrax]

snip

Thats why I hated it. My DM would pull shit like "Everyone gets a chest *opens chest* spikes come out and you die." Mind you, this was after the very first battle. There was also a Shadowrun campain nearby, but they didn't want newbies around. Said they's consider it if I played DnD first.

Yeah, that's a shitty GM, even if spikes popped out, you guys still should have gotten Reflex saves, seeing if the trap (If it's even a trap, lord knows how your GM made it up.) actually hit you (That is a thing in Pathfinder), and rolled actual damage. (Though, this is usually based off of my Pathfinder experience, not sure how it works in DnD.)

My first system I played was Pathfinder, I played a simple Barbarian beatstick. Now I have a Celestial Anti-Creature Artillery Ranger/Inquisitor Gestalt Healbot.
One thing I would always suggest is that (Especially for new GMs) you play with Adventure Paths instead of making up your own campaign. That way it's completely outlined what your players are going to do, and all you gotta do is run your players through it. That way none of this "Rocks fall everyone dies" business happens. As for the players, when using an Adventure Path (First off, resist looking it all up online.) you know that you can't be thrown into this situation of "Rocks fall everyone dies" unless the players as a party take a wrong turn or make a wrong decision, and even then, there's still options that you can pursue to get all/a few of you out.

Pathfinder is a good one to start with since it's essentially a condensed version of DnD, skills are condensed and some of the rules have been changed, but everything is still 3.5 compatible. All of the Searching type skills are slapped into Perception, all stealth-like skills are simply Stealth, things like balance and tumble are thrown into Acrobatics. All of the rules and such are online and freely accessible, the only thing you'd have to pay for are Adventure Paths, dice, and Minis.

 

[RaikuFA]

snip

Thats why I hated it. My DM would pull shit like "Everyone gets a chest *opens chest* spikes come out and you die." Mind you, this was after the very first battle. There was also a Shadowrun campain nearby, but they didn't want newbies around. Said they's consider it if I played DnD first.

Yeah, that's a shitty GM, even if spikes popped out, you guys still should have gotten Reflex saves, seeing if the trap (If it's even a trap, lord knows how your GM made it up.) actually hit you (That is a thing in Pathfinder), and rolled actual damage. (Though, this is usually based off of my Pathfinder experience, not sure how it works in DnD.)

My first system I played was Pathfinder, I played a simple Barbarian beatstick. Now I have a Celestial Anti-Creature Artillery Ranger/Inquisitor Gestalt Healbot.
One thing I would always suggest is that (Especially for new GMs) you play with Adventure Paths instead of making up your own campaign. That way it's completely outlined what your players are going to do, and all you gotta do is run your players through it. That way none of this "Rocks fall everyone dies" business happens. As for the players, when using an Adventure Path (First off, resist looking it all up online.) you know that you can't be thrown into this situation of "Rocks fall everyone dies" unless the players as a party take a wrong turn or make a wrong decision, and even then, there's still options that you can pursue to get all/a few of you out.

Pathfinder is a good one to start with since it's essentially a condensed version of DnD, skills are condensed and some of the rules have been changed, but everything is still 3.5 compatible. All of the Searching type skills are slapped into Perception, all stealth-like skills are simply Stealth, things like balance and tumble are thrown into Acrobatics. All of the rules and such are online and freely accessible, the only thing you'd have to pay for are Adventure Paths, dice, and Minis.

Wasn't even given that chance. Hell, I couldn't attack because I "apparently started out in some mud so I was stuck".

 

[Dr. Thrax]

Wasn't even given that chance. Hell, I couldn't attack because I "apparently started out in some mud so I was stuck".

Super shitty GM.
And unfortunately, nothing can be done about a shitty GM except stop playing with that person.
Even more unfortunate is that no matter which system you're playing, a shitty GM is just no fun at all.

 

[Jaksteri]

Why tabletop games are more fun:
1) More freedom tahn in any video gae, only the imagination of GM and players is the limit.
2) With right setting you will feel right at home. After all some like scifi more than fantasy, ans dome prefer their fantasy as more Game of Throne like(yes there si a book for taht, just like for Starship Tropers)
3) Mutiplayer co-op!
4) There will be more funny and unique stories in them tahn in mostvideo games(Skyrim and it's kind take a point out of that one)
5) Tabletop game also means minianyre, such as Warhammer(fantasy and 40K) for example, not just RPG's.
6) You can punch the asshole who is ruining the game for every one.(which is why airsoft trumps over FPS games, you can actually silence the screaming idiots, if they get enough guts to show up for real game)

Why tabletop RPG's are lewss fun:
1) The ammount of crappy GM's is higher than good ones.
2) Some games are not as fun as one might think(to me that was DnD 4th ed. It was fun to DM but I didn't enjoy playing it)
3) Some people just make you want to strangle them.
4) Making schedules fit with every one for a game night.


Personally I don't mind if teh game takes longer than it would on computer, I can tell you playing them on forums is even slower, You are lucky if one encounter is finished within a week, though it doesn't take much time per day when done so. And GM can actually prepare a plan B and C if players do 180 on their and your plans.

 

[Kged]

I cannot recommend this podcast enough.

http://www.earwolf.com/show/nerd-poker/

Despite my avatar, I've actually never played tabletop games to any sort of extent - although many of my friends are regular players, I happily admit to preferring the PC versions of these things. But that podcast is quite brilliant, and absolutely shows what the experience of slinging the funny dice around is really like.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

The other day, I was reminded of the crap I endured trying to play these in the first place. I took a look online and it looks very boring. When I tried playing, the character creation took eons which seems to not have changed. Then there's the whole shitty DM thing I hear still happening (DM's making sure one or more players suffer just for the lulz). Can't you usurp a DM if he's acting like this?

Maybe it's just the fact that I hate playing with other people due to other people are just horrible in general, but looking online, tabletop games are still boring with spreadsheets and the fact that it takes 2 hours till you yourself can do something. So I'm asking, why do people consider these games fun?

In my opinion: They're fun because of what you can do in them. From destroying entire worlds or just trying to fight some gangsters in a back alley. Saving the universe to destroying it. Whatever.

While the character creation can take ages. (Especially your first time, but with experience comes speed.) I actually enjoy taking my time to develop just what my character is. A fallen lord? A high horse dwarf? A drunk elf? A half insane half-giant with a axe one size too large who regularly one hit kills centaurs at level one? It's kind of a unique thing you can't have in other games. (Yet.)

For DM's, there's really two things. Help them improve, or get a new one. As someone whose DMed, both good and bad games, it really depends on who they're playing with and how well they know them. Some people like a good story focused campaign, and others are happy if they just get to go to town in a zombie infested mansion. And yeah, you can always change DM if you don't like where it's going. But you kinda gotta talk to them about it and not be a dick. Typically.

Again, it's really the creativity you can use with it. Unlike video games where violence is about the only answer, heroes can talk and sing and trick their ways in and out of situations, and die irreversibly if they dun goof. Or they can be the villains and scheme and steal their way to royalty if they so desire. It's an amazing thing, just so time consuming really.

OR at least, that's how I see it.

 

[Comic Sans]

Wasn't even given that chance. Hell, I couldn't attack because I "apparently started out in some mud so I was stuck".

You just had a shitty DM. That shouldn't be happening. Traps are part of the game (my character never forgave our Rogue for messing up a lockpick, making me eat a face full of acid and melting the magic scrolls I wanted),but there's always a chance to dodge, and you should not be instant killed even if you fail. And you shouldn't be totally helpless in terrain. You can have penalties, yes. One of my party's more memorable had us in a low-ceiling thorn forest against an enemy druid who caused thorny vines to envelop the ground. We had all kind of penalties unless we got out of the affected areas, but that added to the challenge and the tactics we had to employ, making the fight interesting. Sounds like you had a killer DM, one that gets his jollies off killing his players. That's a problem with him, not the game. He is ignoring the rules set in place to stop that kind of thing. Your bad experience is not indicative of how the game functions. Your bad experience seems to stem from a bad group in general. If players are antagonistic to each other, it will never work. The game is a social experience, and if that dynamic is broken it will not be a fun game. Any problems between players should only be in character. My friendly but pragmatic knowledge seeking alchemist and the pious goody two-shoes cleric were always getting into spats over how to proceed, but we never let that bleed into our personal arguments, and the group got a good laugh out of watching us interact. We never screwed each other over, always worked as a group, and we had a good time because of it.

As for why the game is fun, to me that's a lot of factors. As I just talked about, the social experience is very enjoyable. If you have a good group that enjoys the game and gets along with each other, it makes the experience very smooth, and a good DM can keep things moving at a good clip and allow all the players a chance to make a contribution and feel useful. For the spreadsheet working that's been referred to, I'm hardly a power player. I put points into stuff that sounded fun and fitting for my character, not necessarily what was "ideal" for combat. I love character building in RPGs, and given the open nature of PnP games compared to videogames, it's even more important. You can make a character exactly as you want, and can make it work. It's all about how you make it work in the game. I had points in Knowledge Engineering, and found excuses to make it work. Our Rogue failed to find a secret door we knew was there but couldn't find? I put forward the argument that I could use Engineering to find the irregularities in construction and find the door. And the DM agreed. Or how did we transport a ton of loot that we couldn't realistically carry? Hire a crab boat to wait outside the island fortress, take all the loot to the back, put it in cargo nets, and use my Engineering skills to make a pully system and lower the loot into the boat. If you can think of it and justify it, you can make it work. Unlike videogames, you truly have choice. That's the beauty of it. You can do whatever your imagination can come up with. You mold the adventure as you see fit. Nothing is set in stone. If you have a good flexible DM willing to roll with the punches, you can take the adventure in all kinds of directions. No two groups will play through an adventure the same. It's not like videogame RPGs where all you do is fight, pick from prechosen responses, and maybe get a speech check. I have so many stories that came from the random things that can happen when you get a bunch of crazy people playing in character at the mercy of dice rolls. If you're the kind of person who can get into the experience with a good group, it's some of the most fun you can have. It's not for everyone, but for myself and others it's unmatched.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Tabletop games can be great fun when you have helpful GM and fellow players. If you don't have those you are already working at a disadvantage. If you get and GM and players who "wants to win" then yeah you're screwed.

That's not saying that winning isn't a goal. But that goal isn't to "win" against the other players, its a cooperative type of gaming experience not a competitive.

Tabletop roleplaying is a cooperative experience from the very start. The GM needs to talk with the players about what sort of setting they want. If they are playing D&D do you want something like Forgotten Realms or is Eberon more their style. Then the GM needs to determine the type of story that will work for the players. Do they want to go around and kills stuff or do they want to deal with the politics of kingdoms and become big players?

From the very CONCEPT of the game everyone should be involved. When it comes down to make characters, unless everyone is already an expert at the system and have made multiple characters before and have played -together- multiple times before, it should be done as a group for multiple reason.

1. To help create a good group cohesion. You don't want a party of 5 magic-users and one rogue.
2. To help the players less familiar with the system get a hang of it.
3. To help both the players and GM come up with how the characters will know each other and meet.
4. Honestly, it's just a fun way to do it.

No player, ever, should be thrown into the deep end of the pool and told "FIGURE IT OUT, NOOB!" If you've ever had that happen in a table top group... time for a new group.

And then after all the characters are made and the game starts, it STILL isn't a competition and if your GM and players are treating it that way, yeah bad group. But by now you probably already knew that. Which means either talk with everyone and tell them your issues or just decide that the group isn't for you and move on.

Now once you're in a group that works cooperatively on even half the levels I described, that's when the fun begins. That's why you start crafting epic tales and stories that continue to get retold for years.

Heck, me and my friends still tell stories from gaming events that happened over fifteen years ago. And some of those stories are about the bad ass fighter who totally failed to hit a street rat who had not even the third of the skills he did.

Or the epic perception check botch that resulted in two vampire PCs not realizing that one had an axe in the back of his head as they tried to lie about being undercover cops to arriving police.

Or the infamous "paramedics" incident that still has my old Vampire group shake their fists in mock anger over.

That's what the game is about more than any amount of loot of high level character they could get. It's about those stories of both triumph and failure that last forever. If you're in a group that doesn't get that, yeah you're going to have a shitty experience.

 

[Deacon Cole]

... n'rmind

 

[Dwarfman]

The other day, I was reminded of the crap I endured trying to play these in the first place. I took a look online and it looks very boring. When I tried playing, the character creation took eons which seems to not have changed. Then there's the whole shitty DM thing I hear still happening(DM's making sure one or more players suffer just for the lulz). Can't you usurp a DM if he's acting like this?

Maybe it's just the fact that I hate playing with other people due to other people are just horrible in general, but looking online, tabletop games are still boring with spreadsheets and the fact that it takes 2 hours till you yourself can do something. So I'm asking, why do people consider these games fun?

I'm thinking it just isn't for you dude. You pretty much listed everything that I love about Tabletop RPG as what you hate.

A few things. Not all GM/DM are arseholes. If a GM is being a prick because he can then yes by all means replace him. That doesn't mean you be a sook about things either. The role of the GM is to provide the players a wide world with interesting places and npcs, engaging quests and enough rope to hang themselves with.

Character creation is my favourite part of RPGing. Yes it does take a long time to make a character. In fact it should take a least half to three quarters of your first gaming session to create your character and the remaining time to introduce your characters as a party. I love angsting and fussing over my character, who is he, why is he, what direction will I take him as a character, his name, how will he impact in the party and overall the campaign. I love that shit. I get to know the character and then as the game progresses I get to take ownership of the character's desires and needs and then become the character and emulate who he is. It is afterall called ROLE PLAY gaming ;-P

You mention you hate playing with others. This is probably your biggest crutch. Ultimately a true RPG experience requires some measure of social interaction. Remember those video games Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age? Shit load of dialogue right? Same thing should be happening in your RPG campaign. You need to be talking and engaging the entire time whether it's with imaginary people, the GM or you fellow players. Team work is essential in the completion of any quest to do that you need to interact with the people you play with.
It also means you get out and meet real living people and engage with them. Life can't always be work or sitting scrunched up against a computer screen, humans should be social animals, heck that's one of the main reason why I as a 33 year old still game. I get to socialise with like minded people have a good time, eat pizza and Arnots TimTams and talking shit. Who can say no to that!

 

[Nuclear_Suspect]

Granted I've only tried G.U.R.P.S [http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/] but it had a nice flow due to you being able to pick and choose rules and systems so it can be as advanced or simple as you'd like.

Granted the GM problem can still be there if the GM is bad, the one time I tried being the GM it was a simple theiving type deal, i made a mansion lined out the rooms, 3-4 guards in this and that room with one walking down the corridor or napping from time to time depending on a hidden roll, wrote down the loot i had around and all that.

My 2 friends did well.. for a bit.. till they botched some rolls in the master bedroom and woke the owner of the house who called the guards, then it all went to hell in a handbasket with one dying in combat the other one who was supposed to help had thrown a rope out the window but due to the amount of guards he had to dive out the window and try to grip the rope, he failed... twice, broke his leg but crawled away.

But yes, it is slow, it is a whole lot of talking with some rolls, but the fun is pitting your imagination and resourcefulness against the GM/Players, if you as a player want to choke a sleeping guard to death by ramming a candelabra down his throad and then kicking it all the way in... then the GM should let you do that!

Think I've rambled enough

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

When I played D&D in high school, it was with a group of people who were either new to D&D or had been playing for some time. So we were able to both go on campaigns with glee, as everything was new to us and still feel secure about having the more experienced players back us up. Every little achievement, from a successful kill to acquiring treasure was a cause for celebration, which made playing the game fun.

The DM was our Physics teacher who was into all things fantasy and the Simpsons. Though he was a very decent DM, he had a sense of humor and made a lot of newbies fall into obvious traps (nothing fatal, just annoying "butt-of-the-joke" stuff). We learned quick and we were able to have longer and more interesting campaigns.