Take this Origin!

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Shadowsafter

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Jun 7, 2010
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If you don't know the Origin system is an attempt by EA to copy the success of Steam. If you didn't know that then you also don't know that either the contract or software (i forget) was analysed by someone and found to facilitate EA literally RAIDING YOUR COMPUTER and sending back what they find to EA's fortress of doom or wherever those pale-faced, bloodsucking vultures live.
To the meat of the matter, when I read this I remembered something (possibly the only thing) that I learned from my high school computing class.
In the UK we have something called the Data Protection Act, the relevant points of this state that data on a person cannot be collected or held without their permission, and that if they request it be deleted or amended it MUST BE.
The upshot of this is that in the UK what Origin plans to do it strictly fucking illegal. If it still goes ahead I urge all of you UK-ers to point this out either to EA directly or to your Member of Parliament so that our government can actually control the activities of a large business for a change.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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We've known about this for months, and already had a large "god damn EA!" session.

And we've also known that EULA's have never been legally binding in the UK. Mainly because they're not revealed to you before purchase and they're horribly one-sided.
 

AmrasCalmacil

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Jul 19, 2008
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I'm pretty sure EA removed that for ages anyway.
Or made it about as malicious as Steam's data collection.

So bitching about it now does nothing.
Why can't the gaming community just be happy?
 

Athinira

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Jan 25, 2010
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Shadowsafter said:
In the UK we have something called the Data Protection Act, the relevant points of this state that data on a person cannot be collected or held without their permission, and that if they request it be deleted or amended it MUST BE.
Bolded relevant part. By agreeing to the EULA, you're giving them permission.

In short: Not illegal.

As for requesting that they delete or amend it, that is also entirely dependant on where the data is stored. EA is an American Company, and as such, using Origin might very well constitute using an American service, which is subject to American law. The UK government can, at their best, complain about it on your behalf, but they likely can't do anything about it.

Irridium said:
And we've also known that EULA's have never been legally binding in the UK. Mainly because they're not revealed to you before purchase and they're horribly one-sided.
First: When it comes to digital download and installation of free software (which Origin is, meaning that it's not a "purchase", only the games are), you actually are presented the EULA before any purchase/installation occurs.

Second: There is a difference between "legally binding" yourself to something and giving permission. It might very well be that the things you "bind" yourself to in the EULA isn't binding by UK law, but the permissions you give them by agreeing is likely still to apply.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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You might want to wipe the froth of your mouth there, sir.

I installed Origin a couple of weeks ago. As yet, I have not been arrested for thoughtcrimes against my corporate overlords.

Personally, I don't care all that much. If EA are really desperate to know what kind of porn is on my computer then, well... good for them, I hope they enjoy it.
 

The Lugz

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Apr 23, 2011
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Shadowsafter said:
If you don't know the Origin system is an attempt by EA to copy the success of Steam. If you didn't know that then you also don't know that either the contract or software (i forget) was analysed by someone and found to facilitate EA literally RAIDING YOUR COMPUTER and sending back what they find to EA's fortress of doom or wherever those pale-faced, bloodsucking vultures live.
To the meat of the matter, when I read this I remembered something (possibly the only thing) that I learned from my high school computing class.
In the UK we have something called the Data Protection Act, the relevant points of this state that data on a person cannot be collected or held without their permission, and that if they request it be deleted or amended it MUST BE.
The upshot of this is that in the UK what Origin plans to do it strictly fucking illegal. If it still goes ahead I urge all of you UK-ers to point this out either to EA directly or to your Member of Parliament so that our government can actually control the activities of a large business for a change.

i get what your saying but that's the point of digitally signing the agreement to the terms and conditions

However.. there is a loophole there as-well because digital signatures are not legally binding in the uk ( unless they've fixed that yet )

it's somewhat suspect, but i doubt you could convince any judge to force ea to rewrite their terms and conditions or delete any information they collect about you or your pc

i doubt there is any solid way to invalidate ea's terms
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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AmrasCalmacil said:
Why can't the gaming community just be happy?
Well, in this case, it would require being NOT behind the times by multiple months, so there's one reason right there.
 

Athinira

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Jan 25, 2010
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AmrasCalmacil said:
So bitching about it now does nothing.
Why can't the gaming community just be happy?
Because "being happy" constitutes satisfaction = We are "satisfied" with what we get.

Point is, in most cases we aren't, and if you aren't satisfied with something, you should let people know, because otherwise nothing is never going to improve.
 

Petromir

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Apr 10, 2010
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Athinira said:
Shadowsafter said:
In the UK we have something called the Data Protection Act, the relevant points of this state that data on a person cannot be collected or held without their permission, and that if they request it be deleted or amended it MUST BE.
Bolded relevant part. By agreeing to the EULA, you're giving them permission.

In short: Not illegal.

As for requesting that they delete or amend it, that is also entirely dependant on where the data is stored. EA is an American Company, and as such, using Origin might very well constitute using an American service, which is subject to American law. The UK government can, at their best, complain about it on your behalf, but they likely can't do anything about it.
Your First assertion is correct the colelction of storing of data most likely is legal as they do indeed ask.

Your second that any breach of it or enforcing the deletion of it, is difficult because EA is a US company is however false. For a start there are UK offices, and they are registerd for VAT, meaning the Goverment has a number of ways of applying fines or product bans. To put this in context Microsoft is a US company, but at various times the EU and individual member states have levied massive fines and sales bans on it's products.

The data protection act and other UK laws may have some application in limiting the data that EA can take using the T&C on Origin, but you have to find evidence for them actually taking data which the act prohibits them from having.
 

Shadow-Phoenix

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Mar 22, 2010
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Shadowsafter said:
If you don't know the Origin system is an attempt by EA to copy the success of Steam. If you didn't know that then you also don't know that either the contract or software (i forget) was analysed by someone and found to facilitate EA literally RAIDING YOUR COMPUTER and sending back what they find to EA's fortress of doom or wherever those pale-faced, bloodsucking vultures live.
To the meat of the matter, when I read this I remembered something (possibly the only thing) that I learned from my high school computing class.
In the UK we have something called the Data Protection Act, the relevant points of this state that data on a person cannot be collected or held without their permission, and that if they request it be deleted or amended it MUST BE.
The upshot of this is that in the UK what Origin plans to do it strictly fucking illegal. If it still goes ahead I urge all of you UK-ers to point this out either to EA directly or to your Member of Parliament so that our government can actually control the activities of a large business for a change.
I too was taught the same way you wwew in IT at college when i was studying E-Business and while i totally agree with you, you forget people have already agreed to the terms and services of EA when they installed the software which means by accepting the TOS you have effectively given them permission which to be honest means they can easily argue that people have already accepted their bait.

I on the other hand won't be installing such software because Origin does not tailor to my needs especially since Origin tailors only to EA branded games and nothing more which also adds a point that the service is hardly innovative in today's line of online services and they have limited their market to one brand which is still a bad move.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Athinira said:
First: When it comes to digital download and installation of free software (which Origin is, meaning that it's not a "purchase", only the games are), you actually are presented the EULA before any purchase/installation occurs.

Second: There is a difference between "legally binding" yourself to something and giving permission. It might very well be that the things you "bind" yourself to in the EULA isn't binding by UK law, but the permissions you give them by agreeing is likely still to apply.
Yes, it is free and presented to you first, but it, and most other EULA's, are still void in Europe because they're horribly one-sided. In the EU really one-sided contracts aren't considered legally binding.
 

Aspergo

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May 20, 2010
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If clicking on "I agree" box to the terms of agreement is the only way to install the software, then a person isn't bound to oblige to them :eek: So if you install the Origin and it keeps scaning yer data, you can always sue them if ya dont liek it, cuz yer not bound to the the terms...at least, its a law in germany, dont know bout the rest of the countries :p
 

CM156_v1legacy

Revelation 9:6
Mar 23, 2011
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Irridium said:
Athinira said:
First: When it comes to digital download and installation of free software (which Origin is, meaning that it's not a "purchase", only the games are), you actually are presented the EULA before any purchase/installation occurs.

Second: There is a difference between "legally binding" yourself to something and giving permission. It might very well be that the things you "bind" yourself to in the EULA isn't binding by UK law, but the permissions you give them by agreeing is likely still to apply.
Yes, it is free and presented to you first, but it, and most other EULA's, are still void in Europe because they're horribly one-sided. In the EU really one-sided contracts aren't considered legally binding.
We also have the idea of Unconscionability [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability] in the states. But in the EU, it's much stronger, isn't it?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
I hope you arent hinting at that change in the EULA.

Beforehand: "We will take your data and do what we want with it."

Afterward: "We will take your data and do what we want with it, but we will be careful. We promise. Honest."
Actually, the EULA altered the purview and clarified the data that would be collected. It went from open-ended and intrusive to specific and intrusive. That's what the poster I quoted as referring to, what I was referring to, and what you're referring to. Disingenuously, in your case, as that's not what the EULA now says, but still.

The EULA is now about as harmful as Steam, which while I dislike Steam's privacy policy and EULA, gets a pass from the same community frothing at the mouth over Origin.

What's amazing is for once, whining on the internet accomplished something and people still aren't happy. Of course, you're free to slam Origin any way you want...If Fox News doesn't need to actually tell the truth, there's no reason random posters on the internet should be required to, just don't expect me to fall for either.
 

Davey Woo

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Jan 9, 2009
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Shadowsafter said:
In the UK we have something called the Data Protection Act, the relevant points of this state that data on a person cannot be collected or held without their permission, and that if they request it be deleted or amended it MUST BE.
The upshot of this is that in the UK what Origin plans to do it strictly fucking illegal.
I don't think you fully understand how the DPA works.
They have the right to collect information about usbut only if we agree to it, and by using Origin you will have to accept their terms and conditions, one of those conditions being, "You will allow EA to ccollect information from your PC about blah, blah, blah"

EA are not stupid they probably have a legal department with more staff than the population of the world's smallest country, but as others have said, I think after the uproar over them stating what information they wanted, they've changed their privacy statement a little, though I'm not sure.
 
Mar 9, 2010
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EA tell you about it in the terms and conditions, so they aren't in the wrong there. However, they don't offer an opt-out option in the agreement initially. For your data to be left unstored you can get in touch and tell them you don't want them to keep your data. At which point they aren't allowed to store your data, they must offer you the choice of keeping it or not at some point.

The down side to this is that you'll have to tell them this every time you agree to the new terms and conditions.