Taking money from the Buddha. Literally.

[Wintermoot]

doesn't it feel wrong to just take money without asking? either wait or ask if it,s okay to take it.
PS I,m not Buddhist either but I also have a Buddha statue with a coin on his hand.

 

[orangeapples]

Oh yeah, I did told her in the end (by that, I mean exactly when I grabbed the money), she was like "Yeah, I noticed", and carried on.

Not that "Do whatever the fuck you want, I don't care", more like, "at least you got some use of the money"

Also,

Wow, taking from your own family. I don't care if you and your family believe in Buddhism or whatever your personal religious beliefs are or what-not, family is sacred. You do not do that to family. For you to cross that line and feel no personal remorse tells me that you have a gaming addiction. You could have waited a week and gotten the money legit. 7 days is not going to kill you; it isn't like 7 days form now the game will have ceased to exist. But you chose gaming over over family. Who cares if she isn't Buddhist? She still has her beliefs and for you to take that money tells her that her beliefs are crap and less valuable than a video game to you.

You crossed the line and if you're not addicted now you will be in the future if that is your way of thinking. You need to stop gaming and seriously think about this.

Well, since I don't think of gaming when I'm not, and I don't have sudden urges to game when I'm doing something else, I'm not addicted. And to say I will be addicted is incredibly self-righteous from your part. You just concluded that that exact moment in my life decided whether or not I'm obsessed about something, disregarding, you know, that time where I spent all my savings on my Best Friend's present (not even a holiday, I felt like it). I bought paint for her room, and painted it myself, instead of getting Skyrim for Christmas. I'm so addicted!

But then again, you wouldn't know, because all you know is what I told you, and that obviously wasn't enough information.

Yeah, you didn't tell us the part where you told her you're taking the money for something. That makes a huge difference in the situation. The way you worded it seemed like you saw the money and decided that your needs are more important than your mother's and that she was out of the house or something.

Gaming addiction is subtle like all addictions. it starts with one compromise in favor of gaming after another. Then over time all decisions place gaming over the real world. Gaming addiction is real and not something to make jokes about. It has nothing to do with being self-righteous and more of being cautionary. I've had friends walk down that path and it does not end well. I think the part that struck us was when you said

I'm not feeling bad about this, part of me think I should, but I don't

For me at least that was a sign that your moral compass was off.

And that stuff you do for your friend and your mother is very noble and commendable, but you are right you didn't tell us the whole story (about how you told her) and there was no way we could have known that.

Now something that strikes me as odd is that you know you messed up by not giving the full story, but then you come back at us with an attitude? We gave you the best advice we could for the information you gave us and then to come back and tell us that we don't know the full story? very mature . You expected kindness?

Look, gamers have spent years trying to get rid of the negative stereotype that society has placed on gamers. We hate it when someone from the gaming community decides that they are going to live up to the stereotype. Society has it in their head that we are amoral little SOBs that have been tainted by the evil video game industry. Then you say that you took money from your mom and don't even feel bad about it; we're not going to take kindly to that.

look from everything you said here, you seem like a nice kid. Little misguided and still having some things to learn, so here are a few lessons for ya:
1. This is the internet; we will take everything either 2 ways: absolutely serious or not seriously at all. There is no middle ground.
2. learn to tell people the full story to the best of your ability. We will always give the best answer for the information presented.
3. Learn some humility. You messed up and didn't give the full story. Learn from it, laugh it off and do your best to not make that mistake in the future. Don't get mad at us for your incompetence.
4. Not everyone in existence has lived your life. Never expect them to know what you know.
5. Taking anything from family is wrong, no matter what. especially if you could get permission from that person.

best part about these lessons is that they work in the real world too.

 

[ultrachicken]

Yes, that's wrong. You took someone's money without receiving permission. And I fail to see how it won't be missed if you won't be returning it for a whole week.

Frankly, you need to learn some respect for other people and their possessions.

 

[Vrach]

if you think people who take coins from the wishing wells are thieves, well, you have an... interesting point of view

actally many fountans and wishing wells donate their coins to charity so if you steal from them you are an asshat

Many do. Many don't. We're talking universal here. It's like me saying "it's ok to take a leak behind a tree" and you replying "well, many trees in Israel have special meaning, so if you piss on them, you're an asshat".

...

Though, if you take money from a fountain (or worse making change with the coin your threw in) then I've generally viewed the person to be rather pathetic.

Well note, I didn't say I did it myself (and the same goes for the Buddha statue thing), I'm just saying it's not wrong in itself. Yes, most of the people who take money out of the fountains here are homeless gypsies, but I don't consider them thieves for that action, so on the matter of principle, I don't deem the action wrong.

well, i didnt really mean you personally, just you more in the general second person verb kinda thing.

Yeah, I know, I just felt like clarifying that point

Well, they're family right? It shouldnt matter if they steal their entire bank account or a few dollars as long as they're family.

Well the difference is exactly in the term. Taking a few bucks can be borrowing, taking or rude taking. Emptying an account is stealing. Lemme add an additional analogy to make it clearer for you, let's take the WoW's guild bank system:
You have tabs that are open to people.
The tabs are open and the guildies are given "permission" to take as much as they want out of it.
Some guildies may take stuff from time to time and never put anything back. Others may take some stuff because the current AH price is too high and return it later. Others may take some stuff and return some other stuff.
None of those people are considered thieves.
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

Same principle works in some families. Again, yes, depends on the dynamic of the family, in some families it's unthinkable, but it doesn't make it universally wrong.

And I like how you used the word some.

and that example is a bad one. it says
However, a guy emptying out the entire bank and quitting the guild? That's a fucking thief.

That implies that they're not "family" any more. You said if its family, its not stealing, its at most rude taking. so as long as you're "family" it shouldnt matter how much money you take.

Who empties a family bank account and stays in the family? I'm sorry, the notion's so ridiculous, I can't even accept it as a hypothetical.

in fact, you actually did prove my point by saying that the guild said someone can take from it and never put back. They didnt specify the amount until thy had said the person also left the guild. So somone could take everything out of the tab, not replace any, and it wouldnt be theft cause hey're still in the guild. so the amount doesnt matter.

Actually, I disproved your point by that argument, because taking a reasonable amount from the guild bank and never giving anything back is not theft. You might be viewed as a parasite (but then again, so can any child past working age), but you won't be viewed as a thief. If you take a ridiculous amount though, like your bank emptying, yes, then you'll be viewed as an asshat and be kicked out of the guild/family, if you didn't have the asshat decency to fuck off yourself first (which pretty much anyone in both cases does)

Also, it's all beside the point, at least from my PoV. From my PoV, once she gives that money to Buddha, it's no longer hers. Not because "oh you gave it away so fuck you", no, because she wanted to give that money away, whether to a person, to a charity or to a statue she believes has magical powers. In either case she does not want that money for herself anymore and as it's not intended for another human being either, the money has no human owner. No owner, no theft.

 

[Korak the Mad]

You could have waited until you earned enough money to buy it, because what if that money was there for another reason besides earning good karma, what if that was for emergencies as well.

For what you did, I have a feeling that when your bad karma strikes you, and it will, it's going to involve that game. Maybe your console will break down, or the game will be damaged and that you can't play it, or maybe the game you bought with that money will disappear on you (misplacing it or it getting stolen). I'm just saying that something will happen.

I think that to help regain some good karma from what you did, I think you should tell your mother, as well as relpace the amount you took, and leave 3X the amount you took as well. So you would have to leave 4X from what you took.

I wish I was rationalist maverick like you. Damn those Buddhaists.

I know alot of people who are Buddhists (including myself), and they are some of the most rational people I know.

Nah, stealing money from your mother is not cool, even if you plan to return it. The fact that it's sat on a Buddha for good luck is irrelevant.

If I were you the guilt would be killing me, I don't know how you can feel nothing.

I agree, how can you not feel guilty about doing that. I know that I would be.

Oh, I think I know why you don't feel guilty, it's because you are trying to convince yourself that the money was just lying there serving no purpose, and since you don't believe in Buddhism, and maybe you thought it was fine to take it.

 

[similar.squirrel]

I wish I was rationalist maverick like you. Damn those Buddhaists.

I know alot of people who are Buddhists (including myself), and they are some of the most rational people I know.

I was mocking the OP.

Buddhism is just about the only organized belief-system that I genuinely like.

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

Why not just ask if your paying her back anyway?
She's your mother, I'm sure she wouldn't have minded that much.
However, I would have to say, I think you need to learn to have some more patience.

I've gone months without getting a game that I really wanted, it's kinda sad that you couldn't even last seven days. I understand the excitement and all, but whatever the case, next time, just don't reduce yourself to thieving.

 

[emeraldrafael]

...

snip

Yeah, I know, I just felt like clarifying that point

Oka

snip

Who empties a family bank account and stays in the family? I'm sorry, the notion's so ridiculous, I can't even accept it as a hypothetical.

family is family. Probably the best way I can put it is when my uncle was younger (I'd say this was probably 40-50 years ago) a guy in his neighborhood killed his sister in rather cold blood. And yet the mother kept going ot prison to visit her son, and always told people in conversation her son was doing well in prison. If someone can still be considered family after killing one of their own family, I dont see why you cant for emptying a bank account. The guilty party will say its oka cause they're family, the robbed may just say they're still my whatever, they needed the money, though I wish they would have asked and I would have helped.

in fact, you actually did prove my point by saying that the guild said someone can take from it and never put back. They didnt specify the amount until thy had said the person also left the guild. So somone could take everything out of the tab, not replace any, and it wouldnt be theft cause hey're still in the guild. so the amount doesnt matter.

Actually, I disproved your point by that argument, because taking a reasonable amount from the guild bank and never giving anything back is not theft. You might be viewed as a parasite (but then again, so can any child past working age), but you won't be viewed as a thief. If you take a ridiculous amount though, like your bank emptying, yes, then you'll be viewed as an asshat and be kicked out of the guild/family, if you didn't have the asshat decency to fuck off yourself first (which pretty much anyone in both cases does)

Also, it's all beside the point, at least from my PoV. From my PoV, once she gives that money to Buddha, it's no longer hers. Not because "oh you gave it away so fuck you", no, because she wanted to give that money away, whether to a person, to a charity or to a statue she believes has magical powers. In either case she does not want that money for herself anymore and as it's not intended for another human being either, the money has no human owner. No owner, no theft.

You're still family up to the point the guild kicks you out or you leave. And if the guild kicks you out, then they cant turn around and call you a thief (or at least they shouldnt) because they made you leave. the guild never says (in the rules you provided) how much you can take out, you just cant take and leave the guild without repaying.

And I guess so. In my original post, I didnt call them a thief. I simply said he should ask their mother for the money, or tell her they took it. the OP followed up and said they did, though I still feel they should have asked, and not just bluntly say I took that money you left there, pay it back later kthanxbai.

 

[Vrach]

You're still family up to the point the guild kicks you out or you leave. And if the guild kicks you out, then they cant turn around and call you a thief (or at least they shouldnt) because they made you leave. the guild never says (in the rules you provided) how much you can take out, you just cant take and leave the guild without repaying.

So, you take everything out of the bank and stay in the guild, not repaying the guild until you die, the guild disbands or whatever external force signifies the end of your dues as long it's not a willing action on your part and it's ok that you never repaid what you took? Basically you're saying employing a passive aggressive attitude + opportunity makes it ok to steal.

And I guess so. In my original post, I didnt call them a thief. I simply said he should ask their mother for the money, or tell her they took it. the OP followed up and said they did, though I still feel they should have asked, and not just bluntly say I took that money you left there, pay it back later kthanxbai.

You're missing my point. The Buddha tray is NOT a spot where you leave money lying around (and I don't mean that in a "anyone could take your money" kind of way). It's not a table, it's not a purse, it's not a wallet, it's not a place where you leave something of your own where it stays your own. He didn't take that money from her. She put the money there to give it away. To Buddha. Who is a subject of her faith and not a real person or organization. Thereby, she made the money ownerless. Once the money stopped having a real owner, it was anyone's to take.

I'm not saying it's cool to take money from your family - that was just a off-track conversation where I said that in particular IS cool, in SOME families, depending on family dynamics/relations. I'm saying it's cool to take money that doesn't have an owner. It's actually even less morally challenging than taking money you find on the street. The money you find on the street, someone might've dropped. You "should" make an effort to return that money to it's rightful owner. No, in this instance, that money was willingly given away to an entity that doesn't physically exist, which is an act that willingly disowns the money. Once ownerless, and even willingly so, yes, that money is anyone's to take.

This of course, is all based on the information the OP has supplied us, that the mother leaves the money away there, presumably doesn't take it again (yes, it's an assumption, but as I've said in one of my previous points, if she believes giving money to Buddha makes her lucky, it's a reasonable guess that she doesn't take the money back from him; but I might be stupid, mixing logic and religion here) and doesn't use that spot as a "I'll put money for Buddha here, then when the money piles up, give it to charity, a Buddhist temple or w/e".

 

[Claptrap]

I wouldn't take money full stop without asking.

 

[emeraldrafael]

You're still family up to the point the guild kicks you out or you leave. And if the guild kicks you out, then they cant turn around and call you a thief (or at least they shouldnt) because they made you leave. the guild never says (in the rules you provided) how much you can take out, you just cant take and leave the guild without repaying.

So, you take everything out of the bank and stay in the guild, not repaying the guild until you die, the guild disbands or whatever external force signifies the end of your dues as long it's not a willing action on your part and it's ok that you never repaid what you took? Basically you're saying employing a passive aggressive attitude + opportunity makes it ok to steal.

...

Alright well, like i said, the mother leaves it there for some reason. I still feel that they could have asked her first (especially since the whole point of this was they didnt have the patience and took from the alter of a god/deity of patience, which just makes it kinda funny). Not that they should, not that they had to, but just to be polite. Yes the money is there to take, and theyre not breaking any laws, they could have asked. Or at least done better than telling her and thinking just cause she didnt yell it was oka.

As to the guild, maybe. all i'm saying is, fromt he rules you provided, theres not set limit on how much you can take. the rules say if you take all the money and quit, without paying them back, then you're a thief. Their rules say as long as youre in the guild, you can take money and pay it back, or you can choose not to pay it back. So, going by those rules, and that there is no set limit, one could take all the money, not pay it back, and still be a functioning guild member. you're not being a thief because you listened to the rules, and just took more than anyone really thought to.

Now you probably are being a dick if you do that, I'll agree. and Im sure the guild members will be pissed and say you should pay them back. But if this were a real world example, and you took it to court, you could argue (and win on) the claim that the guild said you could take all you want, have no obligation to pay it back, as long as youre a guild member. And if they forcibly push you out of the guild against your will and then charge you, then they would be without much of a case because you did not voluntarily leave the Guild.

and Im sure no one's really thought to do it, because like I siad, thats a dick move. But if you did, the guild really couldnt say anything because there's no set rule or limit saying the maximum you can take.

 

[dave1004]

If I get the opportunity, I'll nab something worthwhile. I tend to think of it not as thievery, but...Eh, say a "Long-term borrowing"...Whatever helps you sleep at night. If people are stupid enough to leave valuables out, who knows what can happen to them? I'll tell you what happens, and that's accidents. Do someone a favor and hock a vase before they break it.

 

[The Funslinger]

I once drunk a can of coca cola that had been blessed by Buddhist monks. True story.

Speaking as a more-or-less Buddhist, I feel that you could have been a little more patient. You stole money from your own mother but with the intention of returning it. You should have asked her and I'm sure she would have said yes. This thread has reminded me that I should be less snarky. Thanks OP.

I'm not spiritual but I feel like fucking with a deity's avatar is asking for trouble.

Nah Buddha's cool with that. He's no Khorne or Slaanesh. Although if you OP, turn into a worm in the next life I hope you know why xD.

I may be an atheist, but I've always thought reincarnation was a cool idea. I wonder (if it's real) how much influence one would have over it...

That said, I'm hoping that death functions like it does in Discworld, where you get what you expect, and people can choose to reincarnate.

 

[The Funslinger]

if you think people who take coins from the wishing wells are thieves, well, you have an... interesting point of view

actally many fountans and wishing wells donate their coins to charity so if you steal from them you are an asshat

Not to mention them there Leprechauns would totally fuck your shit up for messing with their well.

 

[hooksashands]

In my family we have a saying: Finders keepers, losers weepers. If you drop cash or leave it lying around in a place that's not a) a contingency fund or b) hidden, then it's fair game for anyone to swipe it.

 

[Vrach]

You're still family up to the point the guild kicks you out or you leave. And if the guild kicks you out, then they cant turn around and call you a thief (or at least they shouldnt) because they made you leave. the guild never says (in the rules you provided) how much you can take out, you just cant take and leave the guild without repaying.

So, you take everything out of the bank and stay in the guild, not repaying the guild until you die, the guild disbands or whatever external force signifies the end of your dues as long it's not a willing action on your part and it's ok that you never repaid what you took? Basically you're saying employing a passive aggressive attitude + opportunity makes it ok to steal.

...

Alright well, like i said, the mother leaves it there for some reason. I still feel that they could have asked her first (especially since the whole point of this was they didnt have the patience and took from the alter of a god/deity of patience, which just makes it kinda funny). Not that they should, not that they had to, but just to be polite. Yes the money is there to take, and theyre not breaking any laws, they could have asked. Or at least done better than telling her and thinking just cause she didnt yell it was oka.

Yeah I agree, it'd definitely be a hell of a lot more polite to ask, which, as I said, I wouldn't do something like this myself (I wouldn't take it from the statue anyway, I'd ask her for some cash), but I was just discussing the morals and 'legality' of the action. Tbh, I like arguing/discussions

As to the guild, maybe. all i'm saying is, fromt he rules you provided, theres not set limit on how much you can take. the rules say if you take all the money and quit, without paying them back, then you're a thief. Their rules say as long as youre in the guild, you can take money and pay it back, or you can choose not to pay it back. So, going by those rules, and that there is no set limit, one could take all the money, not pay it back, and still be a functioning guild member. you're not being a thief because you listened to the rules, and just took more than anyone really thought to.

Well, depends on how you look at it. You're of course right in the legal sense - that's exactly why Blizzard doesn't react to cases like this (even if the person quits immediately after) and tells people to use limits instead.

The problem is, every system has a loophole. In WoW's example, the limit can be set on items, but a single stack counts as a single item. So if your guild said "if you need a red gem for your gear, feel free to take it from the bank", they couldn't actually enforce that using the rules system. So you could grab 20 gems and you technically didn't do anything wrong. The legal system has similar holes.

That's why we have morals and reputation.
And Batman.

 

[Aidinthel]

It'd certainly be more polite to leave the money, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.