Tarantino: "Digital projection is the death of cinema"

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Areloch

It's that one guy
Dec 10, 2012
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Sleekit said:
Areloch said:
to be fair i did get you mixed up with Tanis so there are some crossed wires in the posts.

Areloch said:
Wow, it's like you didn't actually read what I said and decided to go full 'cooing at a small child' level of patronization.

You must be a real treat to talk to in person too.
don't.

and that's friendly advice as you're new here before you take umbrage.
For the first part: fair enough.

However, to the second part, don't what? Point out that your posts taking on a really obnoxious tone is really obnoxious?
Sorry, but I hate reading that sort of posting tone. I know that it's easy to default to(and really have the urge to use it myself sometimes) but it just comes off as douche-tastic and doesn't do either side of the conversation any favors.

I get you weren't doing it personally, but just pointing it out for you, it's a really unflattering way to have a discussion and a fast way to escalate things.
 

Olas

Hello!
Dec 24, 2011
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Ratty said:
The guy has made his entire career out of nostalgia for sleazy 1970s Grindhouse films. To the point of making Death Proof for the "Grindhouse" double feature which had fake distressing on the movies to make it look like the film was old/worn out etc. Of course he's going to say film is better.
I don't think it's that obvious. You can appreciate a certain visual style without insisting on actually using the format that created it. I kinda hoped in my heart that Tarantino was clear headed enough to realize the difference, but I guess not.

Personally I think film is better artistically in certain circumstances (like since Captain America took place in WW2 it just didn't look right to me not being shot on film) but I realize digital is here to stay. There's no use complaining about that. How about mentioning how dreadfully overused digital coloring (blue and orange, washed out grays and browns oh my!) and lighting effects (fake lens flares anyone?) in movies is now?
But couldn't you just simulate the effect by shooting on film to begin with, then converting to digital without correcting the imperfections? I imagine you could also reproduce the effect artificially in post processing, but I'm sure some people would decry it as being "not the same".

Ultimately it's a very silly mindset. The people who shot old movies on film would probably have loved the digital technology of today, it just didn't exist.
 

Username Redacted

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Dec 29, 2010
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Quentin Tarantino: Digital projection is the death of cinema

Film Industry: Pompous auteur who's directed ~4 good movies has an opinion that we give ~0 fucks about.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
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TheSYLOH said:
A find it rather silly that you are bring up this argument in opposition to digital projection. Since for film you need to transport multiple bulky and heavy film canisters to every movie theater, where as with digital you just send it over existing internet infrastructure. This ignores the fact that you can reuse digital medium, and don't have to use all those chemicals inherent in developing film.

Progress happens in green directions as well, the fact you're talking about it is an example of progress in and of it self.
I think your getting how a movie is made mixed up with how it's delivered to the audience. A film can be recorded on the far superior analogue film and then digitised at the resolution the production team wants, then edited and distributed as you mention. This is like having the negatives of old film cameras, you keep the film stored for safe keeping incase you need them later. The advantage is if you need to upscale the film you can't with a digital copy, a film recorded at 1080p will always be 1080p, but a movie recorded on film and digitised at 1080p can always have a higher resolution digitised at a later date as analogue can be recorded in whatever resolution you want.

In the future when they want to remaster a movie in 100,000k they can just pull out the film and digitise at the far higher, and hard drive consuming, resolution. The only downside of film is they degrade over time, however they can be preserved and kept in good condition, film studios now know how to do this. Not to mention even if the film is damaged, then you still have the previous (hopefully higher res than you needed) digital copy as backup. Using film does not mean ignoring digital, the 2 formats are not mutually exclusive.

Source: Film, media and photography courses I have completed as well as personal experience.

Signa said:
I totally get his romanticizing about film, but just knowing the physical and technical advantages of creating, storing, and transporting digital over film makes me wonder what the hell he was smoking before he opened his mouth.
Please read above, Tarantino is talking about studios using film for recording due to their lack of 'resolution', they can always be upscale with no loss in quality unlike digital, film makes the best master/negative copies as they can always be digitised at whatever resolution they need and then edited. He knows far more about how movies are made than most people on this site (it's his profession after all), I'd suggest people stop and listen rather than condemning someone over a comment they do not understand.
 

Brennan

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Mar 21, 2014
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Sleekit said:
atm you can take any film (on film) from any decade of the 20th and can convert it to any format you wish including any future digital media formats that feature a higher digital display resolutions because film doesn't have "a resolution".
This isn't true. Film does have a max resolution as defined by the film grain. It's different depending on the manufacturing and ISO sensitivity (and frame size of course), but it most certainly does have a finite resolution. It's just not a grid like with pixels: blow up a film image too much, and it starts to break down into a collage of discreet chunks of color just like a digital image. It just looks like sand under a magnifying glass, or the pattern on a piece of galvanized metal, rather than the precise grid of a digital raster-based image.

IIRC your average 35mm film frame has a resolution (in terms of grain size relative to frame size) about equivalent to something in the mid 20s in megapixel terms. If you're shooting or displaying digital in 8k, you're getting a resolution more or less analogous to 35mm film. Right now that's expensive, and fairly demanding in terms of processing, write speed, and storage when you're shooting uncompressed footage for a movie (though storage is still much cheaper space wise than an equivalent amount of 35mm film), but in another ten years, or probably even just five, that won't be the case. Digital filmmakers are already shooting in 8k whenever/wherever they can afford to, which means you have to move the goalposts up to IMAX to retain film supremacy when it comes to base resolution in the near future.

In projection, the irregularity of film grain creates a more abstract resolution that feels more "natural" and thus more easily accepted by our animal brains than a precise pixel grid. And with movies, the the fact that each frame has its own random grain structure allows sequential frames to dither into each other more fluidly inside our brains, whereas a pixel grid is consistent across frames and therefore does not get "lost" to persistence of vision like grain does.

It's likely possible to replicate these effects using something like an exotic new sensor technology that captures and/or encodes pictures in an exotic new non-raster format, but it's more practically likely that ordinary raster resolutions will simply be pushed so high over time that you won't be able to project anything large enough to make a difference (provided you're just not cropping to magnify a small portion of an image) without exceeding the human eye's field of view. Probably just doubling up to 16k would be more than enough to wipe out the difference for 35mm. Dunno what it would take for IMAX.

...But that's assuming no generational degradation when going from the original negatives, to edit print, to distribution print, and so on, which is not the case(extra fun if the film was digitally scanned, then re-printed from processed digital files). The truth is even if you're watching at an early festival showing, you're not even seeing a film print at it's full resolution and clarity, which is why for most ordinary cinemas, digital projection tends to look better than film regardless.

Honestly, resolution isn't a real problem. Compression is. If you have even a 1080p TV at home, and you're not sitting with your face less than a meter away from the screen, any image crappyness you see is probably either bad/flawed compression, or bad/flawed upscaling. Shoddy compression is rampant in the home video world, both online and disc, and it's only gonna get more glaring as resolution goes up. Most stuff online, both video and still images, has been aggressively compressed and/or downsampled to save bandwidth (including stuff like Netflix streaming), so what you see on your computer/TV is 99% of the time not even close to the quality either your monitor/TV or the base image/video formats are actually capable of.
 

Grace_Omega

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Dec 7, 2013
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This is complete bullshit. I've seen movies in high quality digital projection and it's light years better than anything you'll get with the traditional methods.

Movie buffs are free to engage in pointless nostalgia all they want, but they shouldn't expect everyone else to indulge them.
 

My name is Fiction

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Sep 27, 2010
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Boris Goodenough said:
My name is Fiction said:
I mean you got the same issue with framerates. 300 Frames per second? hype. 600? Sure but now i can not tell.
Let's not forget those aren't true FPS (Hz), just refresh of the same frame several times.
Fighter pilotes have been tested at seeing the difference between frames at upto 220 FPS.
But thats not their average perception at all times. Thats the effects of adrenaline overclocking the brain so you see in a higher framerate. So unless you playing DmC you can stay at 60 frames.
 

Isra

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May 7, 2013
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I don't know if it's the death of cinema. I think the death of cinema is the increasing prices of tickets, increasing quality of electronics at home and ease of access to films through the net. That said, blockbusters were still busting blocks last I checked.

I'll say this though - digital does not hold a candle to analog in terms of quality. 35mm film is vastly superior. 70mm blows digital projection out of the fucking water. This is part of the reason I'm indifferent to watching a movie up close on my 29" monitor as opposed to watching from the middle row of a "modern" movie theater. The quality of the picture has dropped pretty sharply to what it used to be. In a lot of cases it's just like a regular DVD blown up to stupid proportions, a blurry mess (and blurry audio too).

Projectionists used to be skilled at what they did. They had to be just to do their jobs, and their care showed. Now they just hire some kid out of high school and he slaps a disc in the drive and fucks off for 2 hours while the picture is all scaled wrong and the audio sounds like it's coming from the theater next door - and they want $15 a ticket. I'll watch it at home. God damn I sound like a grumpy old bastard. But it's true... I'm not angry about it, I'm just left asking "why should I bother to go?". What reason is there if I can't at very least get a better picture?

3D? Hah.
 

cypher-raige

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Apr 15, 2014
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Tanis said:
It's like the music 'purists' who claim record, with their pin and needle, had the best quality for sound.
It does have the best quality. Digital files are heavily compressed.

These people are sound engineers, not purists and referring to them with pejorative terms like that is an insult to their profession.