Teaching kids about homosexuality

[Riff Moonraker]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

Then explain to me how keeping children ignorant helps them in the slightest.
And don't reach for "preserving their innocence" because that is a bullshit copout.

And it IS a social fact that attempting to "normalize" or "idealize" any of those quaint little categories we come up for ourselves is dangerous. Ask any Women Studies or Sociology student or Professor.

Bigotry, by definition is an irrational hatred or fear of another group of human beings based on some arbitrary criteria developed out of ignorance.

You still haven't accounted for the sister's complete lack of logic behind the whole "keep the kid in the dark" bit. Explain to me the logic behind "telling someone about X, will magically turn them into X." Another social fact for you to digest is that many members of the homosexual community either don't tell their parents and friends about this or even commit suicide because they weren't taught that homosexuality was an acceptable state of being. Or, in some cases, they weren't taught about homosexuality at all, they didn't know it even existed, the parents' censorship attempts worked too well and the poor kid thought they were utterly alone in their situation, and that no one else felt the way they did. Now tell me, what the hell could be worth doing that to people?

 

[ShadowsofHope]

Love can also occur between a man and an animal, or a woman and an animal, or a man, a woman, an alien and an animal. It's also possible that you have a desire to express your love using cream, other food, whips, poo, tinfoil, handcuffs, rapelay, domination etc. You are free to express your love in any way possible........

Yeah this sounds beautiful...

We teach kids in our society about social norms, we dont tell them about every freakin possibility there is with everything.

Comparing fictional love scenarios between aliens and humans with homosexual relationships just goes to show how badly in touch with the current reality you are.

Homosexuality BELONG to social norms in pretty much the entire western world and if a parent expect their kid to go through life never noticing that it exists or even meet a gay person then that parent lives in a fantasyworld disconnected from the real one. In the same way yours is when you try to portay it as something so uncommon as a person in love with an alien...

Well apparently it doesn't belong to our social norms yet, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion now would we?

It does belong to our social norms, I don't see how you came to the decision that it doesn't.

I would say that a social norm only exist when, lets say, 90% of people in a society agree that deviation of the norm is an actionable offense, to be rectified by the state, social pressure, whatever. I think it's pretty obvious that there isnt a country in the world that considers acceptance of homosexuality as part of the social norm (according to this definition).

Hell, in most of the western world (assuming we only discuss the western world here), same-sex marriage isnt even allowed. That means that the majority of the population in those countries doesnt want the same legal status for homosexual relations and before you even consider homosexuality to be included in the social norm I think it might be prudent to make it fucking legal first.

Canada would like to have a word with you, sir (Legal same-sex marriage and legal open homosexuality within the military).

 

[Hlain]

Well, if my kids ask how you make kids, I would tell them how that it done. However, I'd make sure that they understand that homosexuality is normal, and how it can be that some other kids have two moms or dads.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

That all depends. Why do you view homosexuality with a negative connotation, personally?

 

[Snake Plissken]

Nah, just let kids figure it out what homosexuality is the same way I did...by clicking on a shitload of wrong links whilst searching for porn.

 

[Susano]

I guess it depends on the age you teach them. I still think it should only be man and a woman. But anything else at a young age may confuse them. Being gay is a choice, but i dont know anyone gay people that felt they were gay at a young age. Maybe teach the gay aspect later. Also then you have to add bi sexual to the mix as well. Thing is alot of people are not as tolerant and this could add issues to the childs life before they are old enough to cope with them. It is a tough one.

???
What?
Care to explain how you reached that conclusion?

 

[BENZOOKA]

No, I do not. I don't think homosexuality should be encouraged, unless it actually comes from the child itself, with as little as external influence as possible.

The same goes for the opposite- The kid will learn soon enough, and probably ask her parents about it- then they should tell her, naturally, as unbiased as they can. If she later finds out she is indeed actually queer, it would be better if she does not have any subconscious issues with it inherited from her parents.

But still, they should not be handled equally, as heterosexuality is still the norm- and the natural way to reproduce. If the children are gay, they will probably find it out themselves. The important thing is to then make sure they are neither ashamed or feel otherwise repressed.

That's an excellent post. I agree and couldn't have said it any better. Bravo.

[small]these captchas are pushing my nerves :ssss[/small]

 

[hazabaza1]

Well, my 6 year old sister asked if girls could have girlfriends, so I told her yes. Inform them when they ask.

 

[SkyeNeko]

Yeah i think this would be more of a reproduction lecture, not a love lecture. when was the last time you gave your kid a lecture on love? remember that love is a very versatile abstract idea: i personally dont think that love should be the epitome of humanity (we should do every single thing for 'love'). if you taught a child that homosexuality was the norm instead of hetero, do you think they would grow up gay because that is what they were taught? i think it all comes down to their particular mix of hormones anyways... their natural drive is to find a mate to reproduce. if theyre gay, i dont think any amount of teaching will prevent it. its like being a catholic and having to choose between telling your child about other religions or trying to raise them in your religion

EDIT:

Nah, just let kids figure it out what homosexuality is the same way I did...by clicking on a shitload of wrong links whilst searching for porn.

hahahahahahahah

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

Then explain to me how keeping children ignorant helps them in the slightest.
And don't reach for "preserving their innocence" because that is a bullshit copout.

You are doing it again. YOU think that by not teaching a CHILD about homosexuality means you are keeping them ignorant. I disagree. You are trying to set up your beliefs as fact, and they most certainly are not fact for me. You have an opinion, and again I will say that its fine, but it most certainly is NOT fact. You think its keeping a child ignorant, and I think that its something that should be approached either if they ask you about it, or at a much older period in their life.

I will also add that 7 years old is honestly too young to be having the discussion.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

Then explain to me how keeping children ignorant helps them in the slightest.
And don't reach for "preserving their innocence" because that is a bullshit copout.

You are doing it again. YOU think that by not teaching a CHILD about homosexuality means you are keeping them ignorant. I disagree. You are trying to set up your beliefs as fact, and they most certainly are not fact for me. You have an opinion, and again I will say that its fine, but it most certainly is NOT fact. You think its keeping a child ignorant, and I think that its something that should be approached either if they ask you about it, or at a much older period in their life.

I will also add that 7 years old is honestly too young to be having the discussion.

Okay, fine. Fair enough. But you still have to account for a little paradox that crops up as a result.

7 years old isn't okay to tell the kid about homosexuality, but its a great age to talk about heterosexuality?

WTF?!?!?!

And I'm not just speaking from my own personal beliefs about bigotry.

My knowledge of bigotry comes from years of studying it in University classes, assisting people conducting studies on the issue, and DECADES worth of material that one can easily access by picking up a Sociology, Ethnic Studies, Women Studies, or Lesbian/Gay Studies textbook.

 

[Alloflifedecays]

I guess it depends on the age you teach them. I still think it should only be man and a woman. But anything else at a young age may confuse them. Being gay is a choice, but i dont know anyone gay people that felt they were gay at a young age. Maybe teach the gay aspect later. Also then you have to add bi sexual to the mix as well. Thing is alot of people are not as tolerant and this could add issues to the childs life before they are old enough to cope with them. It is a tough one.

???
What?
Care to explain how you reached that conclusion?

Fuck here we go. Do i really have to spell it out? Did you stick to your straight upbringing or did you chose to be gay based on what you felt? You made a choice between what your heart said and what you were taught. I have a friend that has finally come out as gay eventhough he had been married and had a kid. He finally made a choice based on what he felt. Why do all gay people get up tight by the word "choice". Everything is a choice in life. You chose whatever way seems the right one to based on what you know and feel.

What this says to me is that being gay is not a choice, coming out is. Those are two VERY different things.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Yes, they should absolutely be informed of both at the same time.
The way I see it, what's the fucking difference?

Its not like giving them information about something will make them more interested in it.
However, it has been proven over and over and over time after time after fucking time that withholding information makes something more interesting to people. We want to know why we're not being told something. Don't make a big deal out of this kind of thing, because it isn't a big deal.

And I'm sorry to OP, but your sister sounds like a bigot to me if she's trying to set heterosexuality up as the "norm". Because that is exactly what all of the bigots do, regardless of what they are prejudiced against: they set their own situation up as the "norm" and devalue everything else or at least whatever they deem to be the "opposite" or "abnormal".

This all stems from how I view the issue as a whole: it doesn't matter if sexuality is biology or if its a choice; neither case is a valid reason to deny someone their human rights.
And encouraging ignorance in children is a step towards encouraging bigotry and hatred in children.

But thats the point, isnt it? It all stems from how YOU view the issue. Which is fine, everyone has opinions. But his sister doesnt view it the same way, nor do I. How does that make it right to call us bigots? No, you didnt call me a bigot directly, but a blanket statement like that certainly includes me.

That all depends. Why do you view homosexuality with a negative connotation, personally?

I simply do not believe it is right, personally. However, I wouldnt treat anyone any differently because of it, just like I wouldnt treat anyone differently because of their skin color, or political differences, etc. etc. As per my earlier post, I believe in treating others how you want to be treated, and do so.

 

[Susano]

I guess it depends on the age you teach them. I still think it should only be man and a woman. But anything else at a young age may confuse them. Being gay is a choice, but i dont know anyone gay people that felt they were gay at a young age. Maybe teach the gay aspect later. Also then you have to add bi sexual to the mix as well. Thing is alot of people are not as tolerant and this could add issues to the childs life before they are old enough to cope with them. It is a tough one.

???
What?
Care to explain how you reached that conclusion?

Fuck here we go. Do i really have to spell it out? Did you stick to your straight upbringing or did you chose to be gay based on what you felt? You made a choice between what your heart said and what you were taught. I have a friend that has finally come out as gay eventhough he had been married and had a kid. He finally made a choice based on what he felt. Why do all gay people get up tight by the word "choice". Everything is a choice in life. You chose whatever way seems the right one to based on what you know and feel.

On the internet it's best to assume the worst.
Considering pretty much every other poster is probably going to jump down your throat about this, I really shouldn't have done this.
Anyway, I still wouldn't characterise that as a choice. I can "choose" insomuch as I can ignore my attraction to people, but I am not able to choose who I'm attracted to.

 

[Dexiro]

I guess it depends on the age you teach them. I still think it should only be man and a woman. But anything else at a young age may confuse them. Being gay is a choice, but i dont know anyone gay people that felt they were gay at a young age. Maybe teach the gay aspect later. Also then you have to add bi sexual to the mix as well. Thing is alot of people are not as tolerant and this could add issues to the childs life before they are old enough to cope with them. It is a tough one.

???
What?
Care to explain how you reached that conclusion?

Fuck here we go. Do i really have to spell it out? Did you stick to your straight upbringing or did you chose to be gay based on what you felt? You made a choice between what your heart said and what you were taught. I have a friend that has finally come out as gay eventhough he had been married and had a kid. He finally made a choice based on what he felt. Why do all gay people get up tight by the word "choice". Everything is a choice in life. You chose whatever way seems the right one to based on what you know and feel.

Being gay means you're attracted to the same sex, you don't choose who you're attracted to.

A gay guy can choose to have sex with a female, and a straight guy can have sex with another guy, who you have sex with isn't the deciding factor on your sexuality.

 

[sheah1]

There is actually massive levels of homophobia among this generation, gay is even used as an insult, so yes, I do believe that teaching kids about homosexuality would stamp out the casual homophobia.