Team Bondi should be given a break.

[42]

If you live in America you would know by now that you're country has a lot of video game development companies. sure they're are others around the world but that's beside the point i'm about to make. So far i've read about people going on about how they will boycott L.A. Noire because L.A. Noire was a game that came from a punishing crunch and a long 7 year development.

Now let's think here:

2-3 years = Normal Game dev time >>> sweet no problems here ok some games might suck but other games are good, but you're also remembering these people have to deal with a publisher's demand to release a product on time by the deadline.

3-4 years = Extended Game dev time >>> again no problem as they would be working hard on making sure the game was a quality project. no worries it's all good

4-6 years = This is what i would call the Valve Time zone. sure the game isn't going to be out for a while but rest assured it'll be top notch quality. considering Valve released the last Half Life episode in 2008 i'd say it would be 2013 by the time we receive a new Half Life.

6-8 years = A game that has entered development hell. Now L.A. Noire sits here on 7. so either it was never going to happen or they developers would be spending time on making sure that if it was an experimental approach to gaming it wasn't going to be shit. It's Dev hell if well... basically look at where Duke Nukem Forever was at 2008-09

9-12 years = The games either never coming out, It came out and didn't meet peoples expectations, but that would probably be after it was picked up by another studio or the game has been under wraps for years. As much as i liked Duke Nukem Forever ( =O someone actually liked the game? Crazy i know!) This is what we call The Duke Nukem Forever Zone. It's a space void that sucks all life and energy out of the original project.

But as Yahtzee said in his second DNF review, (YES HE DID TWO LOOK IT UP) If the game's release has taught us anything we have the virtue of patience.

And if L.A. Noire took 7 years to become the kick arse original game that it is and a fresh new IP for Rockstar <<< who by the way always have made top games, instead of condemning the management of Team Bondi, i think we should first call into question the validity of the claims that the office was really that bad that have been made by the anonymous ex-exployees (and might i point out that they are STILL anonymous, so they could be anyone because we don't know who they could be) hang on let me just go off track here, thats the problem with anonymous claims. It could be anyone. Someone might have a grudge against the management of Team Bondi who knows anyway back on track. then if some claims are true then yes it should be looked at. but not by IGDA. It should be conducted by the countries own means. and let me re-iterate, even if IGDA do find something they have no power whatsoever to take action against Team Bondi or it's employees. That's the responsibility of the countries laws.

 

[William Fleming]

If you plan on working in games development then you should be fully prepared to work (EXTREME!) overtime and weekends for little reward (that's what I'm expecting, starting a games development course next month). The hours (was the anonymous source saying 80+ hours, I think but correct me if I'm wrong), however, did seem ridiculous and there was more than one side of the story and I'm a bit unsure who to believe over this whole argument whether the head staff of Team Bondi are being assholes and covering the whole thing or R* being the assholes (they have treated employees unfairly before). Someone is definitely lying though, that is for certain.

 

[42]

You're right man. I f you want to be a Game Dev (as much as i would like to be a game dev i've always been in music) of course you're going to have to put in the hard yards. it's something we all have to do.

realistically No one in their right mind would work the 100+ hours the anonymous sources are claiming and no employer would even dream of forcing that on employees without facing the wrath of the workplace laws in Australia.

the annoying thing is though that IGN was very one-sided in the article that they posted. (but for the life of me it sure as shit isn't groundbreaking video game journalism)

 

[scnj]

You've conveniently skipped over the part when Brendan McNamara didn't bother denying any of the accusations and brushed them off as being 'the way it is'.

 

[Woodsey]

" It should be conducted by the countries own means. and let me re-iterate, even if IGDA do find something they have no power whatsoever to take action against Team Bondi or it's employees. That's the responsibility of the countries laws."

Why would they take action against the employees? They're the ones being put under ridiculous working conditions. The issue is with the company leads.

And really, it would seem very likely to me that the claims are true. There are emails, conversation records, multiple accounts of what happened, and even Tweets from random people who have worked with McNamara in the past at other companies. It seems quite elaborate for one guy to just being making stuff up out of his arse.

And no, "you should expect it" is not a defence. You should expect proper project management and you shouldn't expect to be told you're in crunch for the next few months when really you're in it for years.

You know why Valve take so long? Because they don't treat their development teams like cunts.

 

[Geek_DR]

OK, so your argument is flawed because the ex-employee claims have many sources and have not been refuted by the Team Bondi people. Added to that, there are reports from Rockstar (hardly the best company for treatment of employees) that McNamara and the rest of the high-ups are bad at managing production.

Here's the thing: Even if McNamara is correct about how "that is the way it is", that doesn't make it fair or right.

I work in the visual effects industry, and this is a recurring theme there as well. No overtime pay with long hours. They grind all they can out of new talent because they know it's their first job and they won't say no.

I'm OK with some crunch time, really. If I respect my bosses, and it's a controlled or genuinely unforeseeable crunch within a few weeks (1-3)of the deadline (or lasting a couple days here and there); crunch time can be downright fun. Everyone orders food, (sometimes paid for by the company) gets a little loopy and gets through it.

After a few weeks of that, Everyone is demoralized from not seeing their loved ones or waking them up when they get home every night. The project feels like it's not getting any closer to being done when you have to consistently put those sort of hours in. It's horrible.

Seeing as the game turned out well, I'm sure the employees feel a little better about it, but I wish our industries could grow out of this "on the backs of the worker" mentality.

/Rant

 

[Vivi22]

And no, "you should expect it" is not a defence. You should expect proper project management and you shouldn't expect to be told you're in crunch for the next few months when really you're in it for years.

You know why Valve take so long? Because they don't treat their development teams like cunts.

This. A thousand times this. You should certainly expect going in that there may be some crunch to meet milestones, but anyone who says working 60+ hour weeks for months on end and then not even be properly compensated for it is quite literally an idiot. Not only is this completely unhealthy for those working these hours in the long run, it's also less productive. Beyond a few weeks of this you will literally get less out of those employees than if you were working them the standard 40. These sort of business practices are far too common in the industry, and on top of being highly inefficient and a poor use of resources, I read all the time about people being subjected to this kind of treatment burning out and leaving the industry for good within five years time.

So not only are they losing from team management inefficiency, but good, talented people are forced to give up doing what they love because the demands that are placed on them are unsustainable, and anyone who decides going in that that's just how it is and they're going to sit back and take it is asking for it to happen to them.

And why should the companies who do this stuff care anyway? There's no shortage of people going through art, programming, and game development programs right now who are chomping at the bit to break into the industry. With so many more ready to be thrown into the old development meat grinder and never speak up about the sometimes atrocious working conditions why should companies bother changing a damn thing?