Teenage Male Gamers No Longer Biggest Demographic

Recommended Videos

Tentaquil

New member
Oct 21, 2011
86
0
0
But this is of zero interest to me. I don't play any smartphone games, I don't care what companies do with those. I recognize that majority of smartphone gamers are women, and they should cater to that market. I just want the game companies to remember who the core demographic for, say PC action games, is; Males aged 16-25, and continue to make games that cater towards those needs.
 

sumanoskae

New member
Dec 7, 2007
1,526
0
0
If you ask me, this isn't much of a change. See, people talk about wanting there to be more women playing games, but I think the real source of fascination is why women tend to play certain kinds of games.

Before anyone says anything, no I m not suggesting that video game enthusiasm has fucking tiers of worth; people can play whatever games they want. However, it is relevant to acknowledge that there is a world of difference between Planescape: Torment and Bejeweled; and by extension a difference in desire between the people who prefer each respective game.

This has nothing to do with being a "Gamer" or personal worth, but pretending that a person who casually plays the average FPS for a few minutes on a weekend, and the person who spends hours a day working their way through a story driven RPG have the same relationship with video games is ludicrous.

Not everything has to be high art, not everyone enjoys high art, not everyone looks for high art in the same place, but high art does exist and it is visibly distinctive from other works; the creative spark behind Fast and Furious is not the same as the one behind Bladerunner.

I think the usual perception, weather it is commonly accepted or not, is that women don't have the same passion or interest in games as men do, or rather that most of the people who are passionate about games as a medium for artistic expression are men.

I myself, however, would disagree with that sentiment; I've met lots of people, men and women, who play games, but I've only ever met a handful of people really interested in analyzing the art form. Now, it's true that more of these people have been male, but I've met so few that an estimation of percentage would be useless.

The term "Casual gamers" has accumulated a lot of baggage, but it could be accurately defined as: "Someone who holds a mild to moderate interest in games as a form of light entertainment, but has little to no interest in them as complex works of art"

Please do not shy away from this phrase, and don't use it as derogatory term; there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a casual gamer, and the distinction it helps to create is useful for understanding and working within the medium.

It's obnoxious and silly to treat someone differently simply because they have different tastes than you, but it's reductionist and dishonest to pretend that some people don't take games more seriously than others.

At this point, saying someone is a gamer is becoming more and more pointless; games at this point have been deeply ingrained into our culture. We don't call people who watch movies "Watchers", we don't call people who read books "Readers". Making this distinction only serves to make the community that much more navel gazing and insular, and it ignores the important distinctions to be made between individual genres and techniques.

If we want this medium to grow, not only do we have to let more people in, but we have to refine and analyze not only the games we play, but why we play them and how we think about and judge them.

There is nothing wrong with playing games for simple fun, but everyone already knows games are fun. Even when figures like Jack Thompson were in their prime, nobody argued against the fact that games were fun.

We have plenty of fun, we don't need more of it. We need other forms of engagement, we need discovery, thought provocation, even sadness. Too many of us, even those of us who truly love the medium, still do not acknowledge or understand the difference.

We have to stop praising competence as though it were brilliance.
 

Ihateregistering1

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,034
0
0
Sorry, but it doesn't take a genius to see how incredibly vague these "studies" are.

Essentially, they define 'gamer' as 'someone who plays video games', but then lump them into 1 giant category. This would be like taking a movie buff who goes to the movies every weekend and has a library of 500 Blu-rays, and then a person who goes to the movies 4 times a year and just watches Netflix movies on occasion, and just lumping them into the category of "movie-goers". Technically speaking, you're correct: they're both movie-goers, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that those two are miles apart.

Likewise, someone who's willing to plop down $400 for a gaming console, then $60 for the new CoD, is light years different than someone who is willing to pay $1.99 for Flappy Bird on the phone they already own.
 

chikusho

New member
Jun 14, 2011
873
0
0
CriticKitten said:
This is not an explanation, and you're not Morpheus. Explain your point, or I'll be forced to conclude that you never had one.
If you had infinite time, you could do a post count of how many are discussing what's in the study rather than what's not in the study, and you'd have a pretty clear picture.

You took a very political stance
Rather, I took a fairly neutral stance, and you applied a "political point" to them for.. some ungodly reason?

And now you're trying to grandstand on a "point" that you haven't explained or elaborated on. So I'll say it again: what is your "point"? Explain, or we'll just presume you never had one.
It was clearly stated in my first post. Since then you've just tried to make it into something it's not. Which is actually completely in line with my first post.
 

chikusho

New member
Jun 14, 2011
873
0
0
Savagezion said:
You created that order.
That's... not true, and you're reading quite a lot into replying to a post. I don't throw out red herrings, I reply to the things you said. The same way you have been doing. And if the things I replied to weren't a part of your argument, why would you include them in the first place? But fine, out the window goes the replies to anything you've misconstrued, repeated for no reason, straw man arguments or that which is completely irrelevant from now on.

I've never claimed any such thing. Owning a smartphone used for games = owning a gaming device.
Sorry, but you absolutely said they were the same thing or failed to see any difference between the two. Here let me refresh you memory:

When you use your phone to play a game it's a game machine, pure and simple. It's not less of a game because what you play it on can do other stuff also. In that case, I guess XBOX One owners don't count either?
This is directly in reply to your argument that phones don't count because they have other useful functions.
This is the XBOX one:



Huh... not that much left now..
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Thebazilly said:
But it clearly doesn't count, because they're filthy casuals playing mobile games, and are not true for-realsies hardcore gamers.

As a side note, what does "casual" even mean any more? I saw a thread a while back calling Assassin's Creed "casual." I guess people just want to feel even more elitist about liking Dark Souls?
Err, well the definition of casual hasn't ever really changed. Things like Assassin's Creed are designed so that pretty much anyone can sit down and play them and feel like a badass. It's not difficult to get to the end of the game, it's not something where a person will go "wow, this is too hard, or is taking too long and I'm not that patient." and then fail at it, anyone who wants to beat an Assassin's Creed title can do so. That said some of the side challenges in a title like that are different, but they are more or less placed away from the main game, you do not need to 100% a game like this in order to finish the story and "win".

A lot of people have been point out for quite a while that games like AC and "Call Of Duty" are casual games, they are just aimed at a different type of casual gamers than something like Farmville or a mobile app.

The whole "filthy casual" thing is largely because of the industry rather than the casual gamers themselves. While it's easy to say "well, why can't everyone have their own games and play how they want to" the problem is that the gaming industry does not generally develop a large number of diverse properties, they all fight over the same basic market. With the everyman brought in, the casual, this means pretty much means that due to the numbers this is the majority of what the gaming industry produces. The number of products for serious gamers specifically is very limited. Your casual is the guy who basically sits there and says "I have a life, and I can't afford to put 100+ hours into a game, or even sit there for three to four hours at a time practicing until I get good at it", compared to a more serious gamer for whom gaming is a hobby and wants worthy games at a AAA level that can absorb this kind of dedication. Not to mention the simple fact that serious gamers get satisfaction from being able to finish games, even if it's just due to having patience, that the majority of people never will. All jokes aside things like "I want to be the guy" don't really scratch this itch because they are after all very shallow, low-budget experiences, and only a very few people would ever be attracted to something like that to begin with. With other games the appeal is there for a lot of people, it's just that most people won't be able to see it through to the end.

Something like "Dark Souls" is a relative rarity in this environment, but part of the problem with it is that they are just recycling the same stuff (as some people have pointed out), there is just too little in the way of games like this for the audience. Not to mention that as many have pointed out, Dark Souls is as much a "twitch" experience as a mental exercise, which detracts from it in the eyes of a lot of serious gamers (especially RPG gamers).

That said, I haven't said anything that hasn't been said before (by me in fact)

As far as the article goes, I find the results it's quoting questionable, but probably not as far off as many might think. The thing is when people think about gaming guys tend to look specifically at games that guys play, which is why I find it hilarious to see people talking about a lack of female protagonists and so on. It's very, very, rare that anyone on forums like these (including writers) pay much attention to things like adventure games or hidden object mysteries, two entire generas of games largely directed at and dominated by women. I suspect they don't get much attention because they have always largely been shovelware, or viewed as such, but they have been around in vast quantities filling the jewel cases in gaming sections almost as long as such things have existed, and being fairly lightweight and cheap to make they also made a huge jump onto the app stores. One thing you'll notice rapidly is that within this genera female protagonists greatly outnumber male ones, and as often as not you have some plucky female sleuth or psychic trying to rescue her husband/boyfriend/whatever... seriously browse through some of them some time. One game series juggernaut I've mentioned before, but people tend to forget about, is the whole "Nancy Drew" video game series which is up to like 20 installments (perhaps more), which probably makes it the longest running game series there is, or at least a contender for it.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
3,676
0
0
Kalezian said:
Nobody else has bought up harassment or `crying` which you both seem fairly attached to.

I would respectfully suggest this isn't the time to bring up the chip on your shoulder.
Of course, I'd suggest building an environment where it's not appropriate to harass anyone but that's just c-ray-zay.

Also here's another study for you, if you're interested. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/WaiY...eactions_to_a_womans_voice_in_an_FPS_game.php

But this isn't really what this thread is about.
Honestly I'm a little disappointed by the amount of negativity in this thread, maybe it's because some people felt the OP was phrased poorly (it kinda was), and I'm hoping that's all it is, rather than hostility towards girl gamers in general.

I don't want it to be an us vs them situation. Should be a `more the merrier` situation. Oh well.
 

Savagezion

New member
Mar 28, 2010
2,455
0
0
chikusho said:
Savagezion said:
You created that order.
That's... not true, and you're reading quite a lot into replying to a post. I don't throw out red herrings, I reply to the things you said. The same way you have been doing. And if the things I replied to weren't a part of your argument, why would you include them in the first place? But fine, out the window goes the replies to anything you've misconstrued, repeated for no reason, straw man arguments or that which is completely irrelevant from now on.

I've never claimed any such thing. Owning a smartphone used for games = owning a gaming device.
Sorry, but you absolutely said they were the same thing or failed to see any difference between the two. Here let me refresh you memory:
When you use your phone to play a game it's a game machine, pure and simple. It's not less of a game because what you play it on can do other stuff also. In that case, I guess XBOX One owners don't count either?
This is directly in reply to your argument that phones don't count because they have other useful functions.
This is the XBOX one:



Huh... not that much left now..
Funny enough, that Xbox thing was a red herring. You refuse to accept that the smart phone is a device that holds most of its value outside of gaming apps. I know this is hard for you to grasp but smart phones are mostly sold for the ability to have:

1)mobile phone calls
2)mobile texting
3)mobile internet (facebook, twitter, escapist, google, etc.)
4)mobile GPS & weather
5)mobile camera (yay selfies)
6)mobile video recorder
7)mobile mp3 player (local storage of music)
8)mobile movie player (local storage of Hollywood movies)
9)mobile apps outside of gaming (Flashlight, Sports scores, calculator, Netflix, etc.)

All that in one little device that fits in your pocket and I didn't even mention games. What you are failing to recognize is that there are multiple different trends around the mobile scene because it is a trend itself right now as I pointed out before.



You, however, tried to simplify that point I made into "a device that does other stuff" specifically for the purpose of comparing it to an Xbox (or a console specifically) so that you could try to dismiss the point I am making in regards to them. That is an evasive maneuver in debate because you are dodging my point.

That was your response directly to mine where I listed these same functions a mobile phone provides:

I also mentioned the fact that a phone is is a valuable tool for daily life. A smartphone is GPS, texting, phone, camera, internet access, and video recorder you can carry in your pocket. That is a tool that will not only help you get a job easier but is often necessary to maintain one today. A console lets you play games and it isn't mobile or near as useful in every day life.
This doesn't matter in the slightest. When you use your phone to play a game it's a game machine, pure and simple. It's not less of a game because what you play it on can do other stuff also. In that case, I guess XBOX One owners don't count either?
You turned it into a "device that does other stuff" specifically to dodge the point I was making. The point behind that if you are still incapable of seeing it is that even if you don't want a phone for gaming, you probably still want/need one. Once you have one, the price for gaming on them is free. You know all those famous mobile games? Angry Birds, Temple Run, Candy Crush, Clash of Clans, Cut the rope, etc.? All free apps. $0 cost of entry if you happen to own a phone for all those other reasons. You can watch TV at home or on your phone without a console. A console cannot provide what mobile technology or simply owning a smart TV does. Someone who decides to play Candy Crush for free and likes it on their phone is not the same as someone who went out of there way to buy hardware that's primary function is playing video games and then proceeded to pay $20-60 per game for it. If that doesn't make sense to you, you should apply for a job at Microsoft.
 

Savagezion

New member
Mar 28, 2010
2,455
0
0
CriticKitten said:
And obviously women are buying the games they already sell (as the study shows), so there's no reason for them to scramble to change their games to be less sexist, as the feminists oft demand.
I gotta admit Kitten, I am a little jealous of that point you made. That was a good one and I can't believe I missed it. I wish I thought of it.

Kudos.

Sorry to any female gamers out there, I do want to see more representation in the medium. However, that is a valid point and it is like icing on the cake because it hits hard against feminists that choose to try to create a type of false reality to the situation here. What would help is if people would stop trying to make the market look like it is something it isn't and instead start looking for where and why it isn't working and support it in those areas. Personally, I think the main culprit is that every time a game comes out in the past few years with a female protagonist, it is ironically attacked by so-called "feminists" as being sexist. Or if we look at the case of Remember Me it just wasn't "good enough". In the end, there is always a 'reason' people shouldn't buy it.
 

chikusho

New member
Jun 14, 2011
873
0
0
CriticKitten said:
Incorrect. You pointed out that it was evidence of an "exponential" growth in women's gaming (it isn't) and then dismissed opposing opinions as "proof" of some point which you still haven't explained.
Meh, it's a matter of perspective. Fine, 1 - 3 percent increase you might not find impressive, or it might fall within the margin of error in one way or the other. It's still evidence of exponential growth over a larger area of time, which has been maintained for yet another year.

So you don't actually have a point and just wanted to stir the pot to "prove" something to yourself, got it. Unfortunately for you, everyone else actually read the study, and you didn't, so you're pretty definitively in the wrong here.
Just the kind of dismissiveness I was talking about. :)


Savagezion said:
Funny enough, that Xbox thing was a red herring. You refuse to accept that the smart phone is a device that holds most of its value outside of gaming apps.

You turned it into a "device that does other stuff" specifically to dodge the point I was making.
Xbox thing was not a red herring, it was a joke tied together with a relevant reference to a device which people may or may not have bought to be a media center rather than a game machine. It's all about perspective man. Just like the PS3 sold to a whole lot of people simply because it was the cheapest blue-ray player available on the market.

I've never disagreed that phones are more useful for other things. No, I quite clearly stated, in my quote which you yourself just used, that your point, the actual point you are trying to make right now, doesn't matter in the slightest. For the reasons I presented. And I still hold that position.
 

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,261
1,118
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
chikusho said:
CriticKitten said:
Incorrect. You pointed out that it was evidence of an "exponential" growth in women's gaming (it isn't) and then dismissed opposing opinions as "proof" of some point which you still haven't explained.
Meh, it's a matter of perspective. Fine, 1 - 3 percent increase you might not find impressive, or it might fall within the margin of error in one way or the other. It's still evidence of exponential growth over a larger area of time, which has been maintained for yet another year.
No, it really isn't. Exponential growth refers to a rapidly increasing growth rate, expressed most simply as y = x^2. When the X value is 1, the Y value is 1. When the X value is 2, the Y value is 4. And when the X value is 9 the Y value is 81. Visually, a graph representing exponential growth would look something like this:



As the value of the x axis increases, the difference between the value of the x and y axis increases by ever greater margins (0, 2, 6, 12, 20, 30, 42, 56...). That is how exponential growth works. It is not "we saw growth this year", it is not "we have seen growth the last few years", it is not "We saw more growth this year than we did last year". What it is, is "our growth rate over this period of time has been constantly accelerating". And you do not call that at such low figures as 1 - 3 %.
 

SoulkeeperX

New member
May 27, 2008
41
0
0
Soccer moms playing Candy Crush for an hour a day can't count the same as the console/pc players that camp out at midnight launches
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
18 year old males were only made the largest demographic back when the ESA included IOS systems less than 5 years ago. Before then the average gamer was 30something males.

Look, I don't particularly care about IOs games. The AAA market isn't IOs and when it is there's no gaurantee that this is going to translate into females. I get that farmville and candy crush and all these female friendly games have made a big smash but these aren't the games we really tend to care about. These are the games we play when we're bored or don't have better things to do. These are literally this generation's solitaire. That's why it's relevant that these are the games they mostly play and not the ultra involved AAA titles or hardcore games.

There should be a distinction between casual gamers and hardcore gamers. It's not that one group is legitimate and the other isn't. It's just that they're very different demographics except when a person is both. A person who has played candy crush for thousands of hours simply isn't part of gamer culture. I think that's the thing really.

However, it should be noted that the distinction should never be what a person look. Like the chart saying what women play vs men. Yes, there are differences in preference of genre between the sexes in aggregate but being male or female does not preclude one from being a gamer. For example, my wife loves COD and Halo and a lot of FPS games. Long before I met her even. So she isn't a casual gamer and is familiar with gaming culture/lore. That is a gamer. Flappy bird enthusiasts are not if that's all they are. Maybe you can specifically call them a casual gamer or a mobile gamer perhaps. But the term gamer by itself has come to mean a hardcore gamer specifically.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
4,860
0
0
Savagezion said:
Funny enough, that Xbox thing was a red herring. You refuse to accept that the smart phone is a device that holds most of its value outside of gaming apps. I know this is hard for you to grasp but smart phones are mostly sold for the ability to have:

1)mobile phone calls
2)mobile texting
3)mobile internet (facebook, twitter, escapist, google, etc.)
4)mobile GPS & weather
5)mobile camera (yay selfies)
6)mobile video recorder
7)mobile mp3 player (local storage of music)
8)mobile movie player (local storage of Hollywood movies)
9)mobile apps outside of gaming (Flashlight, Sports scores, calculator, Netflix, etc.)

All that in one little device that fits in your pocket and I didn't even mention games. What you are failing to recognize is that there are multiple different trends around the mobile scene because it is a trend itself right now as I pointed out before.


You, however, tried to simplify that point I made into "a device that does other stuff" specifically for the purpose of comparing it to an Xbox (or a console specifically) so that you could try to dismiss the point I am making in regards to them. That is an evasive maneuver in debate because you are dodging my point.

That was your response directly to mine where I listed these same functions a mobile phone provides:
I think discussing what the main function of a device is, is flawed as a point here even in response to a red herring. For example, I have a ps4 and use it to watch Netflix as well as play games. Do I like movies less because I'm not watching them on a DVD player or Cable device that are specifically designed for doing so? No (not that you'd disagree).

Instead, the primary argument should be that phones are currently incapable of playing most hardcore AAA gaming and even without that being considered, females typically go for the more casual game. The size of the games are incredibly limited as well as the modes of input. There may be a day where a computer's ability to process a video game is not unlike our ability to run MS Word (whereas there was a time that this process would tucker out a desktop computer pretty quickly, hence word processor).

So there could be a day where iOS gaming becomes no different from regular gaming as far as content.

Right now, the relevant point is that iOS games aren't the games typically self-identified gamers play. These are the fringe casual gamers in the same way that my dad playing spider solitaire on his tablet isn't gaming. Heck, these are today's solitaire. Limited gameplay, limited depth, perhaps no plot even. Casual.

Back in 2010 when the ESA widened their survey net some, they got a 40/60% female/male% split. That same year we found out that 80% of women who had a console had a Wii as their primary console. That was a huge difference from men who were roughly divided amongst the other consoles with 41% having a wii and 59% having the other two.

This meant that any intelligent AAA developer (that wasn't Nintendo) in 2010 would have looked at the market and seen less than 20% of their possible target market as being female even if we assumed that men and women owned consoles at similar rates despite the assumption that men are more likely to own consoles than women which would make the disparity even larger.
 

Frozengale

New member
Sep 9, 2009
761
0
0
All adult women outnumber boys age 18 and younger when it comes to video game playing....

NO FREAKING WAY!

It's almost like there are going to be a larger number of people available in a subset of people ages 18+ then in a subset of people ages 12-18. Populations statistics, lawl, how do they work?!
 

Aaron Sylvester

New member
Jul 1, 2012
786
0
0
Frozengale said:
All adult women outnumber boys age 18 and younger when it comes to video game playing....

NO FREAKING WAY!

It's almost like there are going to be a larger number of people available in a subset of people ages 18+ then in a subset of people ages 12-18. Populations statistics, lawl, how do they work?!
Don't forget, almost every smartphone owner counts as a gamer as far as ESA is concerned.