Telekinesis...

[SckizoBoy]

Semantically, telepathy would be the rout cause of telekinesis. 'tele' is just Greek for distance. And 'pathe' meaning to effect.

As far as I'm aware. Telepathy is just the overarching power that things such as telekinesis, mind control and reading fall under.

So it should kind of be the other way around.

With telepathy being the route of everything.

I still disagree with you however. In that the understanding of TK had never been on a subatomic level. You're talking about matter manipulation. Not simply being able to influence objects in their environment.

A couple things: I, as a young whippersnapper with a hyperactive imagination, developed a fictional universe with telekinesis as one of the core features, but I sort of developed it into an evolved ability that has sort of overwritten the Henry Holt definition with my own. So, my view of it is always going to be skewed, but there will be those who agree (likewise those who disagree).

In any event, having checked up on the Holt definition ('direct influence of mind on a physical system that cannot be entirely accounted for by the mediation of any known physical energy'), my usage/application is still, albeit loosely, in line with this. Now, maybe I'm taking the 'loose' part of my interpretation a bit far, but the spirit's still there, I think!

One thing I wanted to pick up on being the second part 'by the mediation of any known physical energy' which I've sort of twisted such that said 'physical energy' can be either inserted or withdrawn. I've used this definition for my fictional world and I won't change it for anything, but in your opinion, have I made a bit too free with it? (I know I have, and I'm unashamed about it.)

As for 'telepathy' being the source of all etc., I think that's only as far as etymology is concerned, not parapsychologically. (Not my kind of hokey, to be honest, it's either pearly-king-whole-hog or nothing, but hey, that's the way I story-tell.)

 

[Trolldor]

Telepathy.

Bit late on that, my dear Troll-kins. Me and the good Colonel are debating influencing of nerve impulses at the moment. (See Round One on OP.)

Besides, which aspect of telepathy:

Mind reading? Mind control? Thought projection? *meh* still comes down to the same answer.

[small][sub]The air of superiority is for lolz, kimishinaide kudasai![/sub][/small]

I read that. So much SCIENCE!(TM)

Anyway, pathy is related to thoughts and emotions, kenesis to movement. The two are very much seperate.
Also, you can't read thoughts using telekenesis. Telekenesis is solely restricted to movement, hence telepathy being seperate as its reading (and sending) of thoughts, and telekenesis does not grant you the insight in to how to manipulate someone's unique brain chemistry and neural activity in order to induce a thought.

 

[loc978]

But your insistence that synapse firing doesn't involve electrons is silly. An ion is just an atom or molecule with missing or extra electrons, and electrical current is simply electrons being passed from molecule to molecule within a substance. To change that flow in the manner you describe is to make the electrons go elsewhere. To do so with telekinesis would be to grab the electron and do so forcibly, since you can't exactly introduce new chemicals to change reactions inside of a person's body without opening them up. You could shunt existing chemicals elsewhere to change the strength of a reaction in a nerve, but you wouldn't be able to redirect it well.

I fear this is turning into a biological debate. But I'll humour you. The human body is a marvellous machine. True you have to shift the electrons from one place to another, but the reason why this is workable is buffer solutions in blood plasma/tissue fluid that maintains the pH balance (which is brought about as a result of the need to create greater concentrations of ions). Considering the general frequency and magnitude of signalling reactions, this isn't much of a problem, I wouldn't have thought, because only minimal affect on signal conduction is sufficient to have a significant effect on the 'target' (shall we say). *shrug*

Any nerve-cell/neuro-folks out there care to weigh in. I'm gradually getting out of my depth here. *hrk*

pretty sure I've been out of my depth since I started on this tack. Electrical theory and chemistry I know, but separately. Biochem is a little beyond me... but I do know it doesn't change the nature of the disciplines involved.

One thing I think we can all agree on, though... All superpowers can be explained by way of energy manipulation. If you explain telekinesis by way of energy manipulation, a lot of powers are explained through telekinesis.

 

[SckizoBoy]

pretty sure I've been out of my depth since I started on this tack. Electrical theory and chemistry I know, but separately. Biochem is a little beyond me... but I do know it doesn't change the nature of the disciplines involved.

Touche, back to the classroom for both of us then.

I read that. So much SCIENCE!(TM)

Anyway, pathy is related to thoughts and emotions, kenesis to movement. The two are very much seperate.
Also, you can't read thoughts using telekenesis. Telekenesis is solely restricted to movement, hence telepathy being seperate as its reading (and sending) of thoughts, and telekenesis does not grant you the insight in to how to manipulate someone's unique brain chemistry and neural activity in order to induce a thought.

Yes, quite so, but ultimately, the words themselves are just convenient labels. Telekinesis was thought up in 1890 by a Russian (name escapes me) while telepathy was coined in 1882 by a guy called Myers (a Brit). The latter was originally meant to be a catch-all word to denote any 'psychically effected' ability, but was changed to mean more by way of mind-to-mind effecting (when and by whom, I don't know), while the definition of telekinesis (at least broadly) never really changed.

I've just taken the concept of the Holt definition (as per post 41) to its logical extreme. And if I'm honest, I do segregate telepathy and telekinesis in my own literature (with their own distinct ability classifications etc.).

Now, whether you believe that telekinesis (by my definition) can facilitate mind reading/control etc. is up to you, I'm merely content with the possibility, even if it requires a great deal of rationalisation (i.e. while you can influence the movement of ions/neurotransmitters, you need to know what results in changes in concentrations/cross synaptic diffusion otherwise you're kind of fucked. Moreover, you need to be able to read this changes for there to be an end result.)

Uh...

I've kind of dug my own grave haven't I?!

Fuck this, it is now 21:00 in the UK, and so I will be off to see Justin Bieber get killed!!

(granted, only on TV, but it's good enough for now, CSI if you're wondering)

EDIT: Woops, note to self, rant about UK Channel 5 one day! *meh* watching on t'webs.

 

[Nocturnal Gentleman]

Matter of fact it wouldn't even need to have the complexities of flesh. You could create scientific/engineering analogues for muscle etc if you so wished. Also with telekinesis you could perform CPR on your own heart and lungs to jumpstart yourself.

Your body would basically become more inorganic then. That would make you a golem or android and not a true shape shifter. Plus, if you can remember those kinds of structures down to the tiniest detail then you must have some crazy photographic memory.

 

[Trolldor]

pretty sure I've been out of my depth since I started on this tack. Electrical theory and chemistry I know, but separately. Biochem is a little beyond me... but I do know it doesn't change the nature of the disciplines involved.

Touche, back to the classroom for both of us then.

I read that. So much SCIENCE!(TM)

Anyway, pathy is related to thoughts and emotions, kenesis to movement. The two are very much seperate.
Also, you can't read thoughts using telekenesis. Telekenesis is solely restricted to movement, hence telepathy being seperate as its reading (and sending) of thoughts, and telekenesis does not grant you the insight in to how to manipulate someone's unique brain chemistry and neural activity in order to induce a thought.

Yes, quite so, but ultimately, the words themselves are just convenient labels. Telekinesis was thought up in 1890 by a Russian (name escapes me) while telepathy was coined in 1882 by a guy called Myers (a Brit). The latter was originally meant to be a catch-all word to denote any 'psychically effected' ability, but was changed to mean more by way of mind-to-mind effecting (when and by whom, I don't know), while the definition of telekinesis (at least broadly) never really changed.

I've just taken the concept of the Holt definition (as per post 41) to its logical extreme. And if I'm honest, I do segregate telepathy and telekinesis in my own literature (with their own distinct ability classifications etc.).

Now, whether you believe that telekinesis (by my definition) can facilitate mind reading/control etc. is up to you, I'm merely content with the possibility, even if it requires a great deal of rationalisation (i.e. while you can influence the movement of ions/neurotransmitters, you need to know what results in changes in concentrations/cross synaptic diffusion otherwise you're kind of fucked. Moreover, you need to be able to read this changes for there to be an end result.)

Uh...

I've kind of dug my own grave haven't I?!

Fuck this, it is now 21:00 in the UK, and so I will be off to see Justin Bieber get killed!!

(granted, only on TV, but it's good enough for now, CSI if you're wondering)

As I said, Kenesis doesn't allow you to read as it's manipulation not transmission.
Oh, and here's another one for you - omniscience.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Snip

Okay that's bullshit. Selective manipulation of biochemistry, no matter how advanced, does not grant immortality. In order to be alive your body must undergo continued chemical reactions to fuel your metabolism and so long as your metabolism is going, the human body ages. Either you'd have to not have a metabolism and still be alive or you'd need an unageing metabolism, which is a different superpower from telekinesis. No matter how efficient your superpowers make it, you eventually die at some point from your metabolism causing you to age and thus making you not immortal.

 

[Skalman]

How bout seeing into the future? Either as Visions/prophecies or just glimpses of things before they happen? Like the movie next or "the force".

I'm pretty sure you can't explain that with telekenisis, although I'm rooting for you, the only thing in question of wether telekenis is the greatest superpower is how much precision/power/control it grants you.

 

[Ralphfromdk]

*Snip*

Okay then. Explain.......... Telekinesis. How does your mind have the power to affect other things?

Oh snap, I think I just broke your thread :3

*head... strain... explode* LOL

I have a new one for you

The power to resist Telekinesis.