Terrible dating advice

[Something Amyss]

It really depends on where you live. I live in a country where men are pretty much obligated to ask women out, so just being myself isn't sound advice if I want to go out on dates.

1. I'm not sure those two correlate. Being yourself has little to do with asking people out.
2. I'm pretty sure you'd find a good chunk opf people who insist that it's pretty much required for the man to ask the woman out in the US. Whether that is the case is heavily debatable.

Also, you saying that you look like a cross between Jon Stewart and a mountain troll doesn't really tell us much, so I call bullshit on that. I would describe myself as a cross between a fat cat and a gorilla but apparently I'm not ugly, so whatevs.

Call bullshit all you want, but I'm not getting anywhere on looks.

That's right, folks. People look at me and think "winning personality." Something is seriously wrong with this world.

Quite true they are not, however that doesn't mean you can't say things like "woman prefer men who are in good shape." Obviously it's not EVERY single woman but a vast majority do (men do too). No one is claiming it's for all women or all men, it's just a majority.

So say I accep accept this generalisation. Now, the idea of what constitutes "good shape" now comes into question. I imagine that if you hold the bar low enough, then yes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say most women (and most men) prefer partners who are not 500 lbs. But I think that once you leave the extreme examples, you end up with much less agreement in terms of what "good shape" entails.

You then end up in the position that while it may be true that most women have such a preference, it may not be a primary preference or even a deal breaker.

Jon Stewart is a sexy man don't besmirch him!

Jon Stewart does not look like a healthy man. Or an in shape one. I think this would fly in the face of your previous point. Moreover, I don't think when people think of Jon Stewart, they think conventionally attractive. The man is earnest, caring and charming, all strong qualities. But a handsome man he is not.

But to the point, there are things that a vast majority of women do not find attractive, and in that case it is mostly a "women don't like X."

I'm hard pressed to think of such things that re close to "vast" majority status without being so vague as to be useless. In reality, most of the things men claim women want seem like they would preclude over 90% of the population. Yet we don't see a world where 10% of the population has harems and the rest are all left alone.

Ok hate to be that person but anything greater than 0 is more... So doesn't really give a good starting ground. I've been approached by far more men than I've approached. I'll leave it up to you to interpret what that means.

Unless you're asserting I've approached zero people, that's a useless retort. And if you are, I would like to see some evidence to back up your assertion.

Oh my god I couldn't agree with this any more if I tried.

Well, Dave Tennant is a good starting point.

I know too many guys who this is an issue for, who often speak of `women` as if we are all an unchangeable hive-mind.
Which is obviously not true. The Hive-Mind can change it's mind whenever it wants. No mercy for the outsiders.

I literally clapped. I just had to point that out. Like, I'm glad I read this at home and not somewhere I'd have to explain myself.

I think the problem most men run into when trying to get dating advice is that they just seem to want advice for `women`. Not `women who are into the same things as me` or `women who share my values`- just plain straight up `women`. And that's just not going to work out. I think it's worse to take a broad approach to dating, just looking for anyone. It's better to find someone you're into and get to know them as a person.
^Obvious statement is obvious, but yeah, sometimes it needs to be said.

Honestly, I think it'd be easier if you were literally just looking for someone. I certainly wouldn't expect it to last, mind.

But yeah, part of the reason "be yourself" is even advice is that it's hard to build any relationship on false pretenses. I mean, if you're looking for a hook-up, I suppose being yourself isn't necessary, but this is ostensibly dating advice. In any case, I would think you would want to find partners who share interests or something along those lines at least, but I don't know. I'm not exactly the type to go to clubs, or hit on people at clubs. I am super comfortable with my SO, who is also an awkward, nerdy, dork.

Of course, this also means I don't date much. My SO might object.

But yeah, problems arise when you try and figure out a group which is literally half the population.

 

[awesomeClaw]

I haven't had that much success with women, but if I am to speak about the subject...

One thing I see many people in this thread mentioning is that blaming women for your failure is bad, and this is true. That is not a productive way of handling your emotions. However, after this sound statement, they often state with absolute confidence things like "there's always someone who'll be with you" or "someone will always fuck you".

But that isn't NECCESARILY true. It is conceivable that all people in your immediate vicinity either don't want to fuck you, or that there are some, but only people whom you don't want to have sex with. That is a possibility. It may not be likely - but there a seven billion people on the earth, and the odds of it being true for at least some people are...well, big.

Same thing with "many fish in the sea", that is also patently untrue. No two people are alike, and it's possible that the woman or man you just failed to bed is the most attractive man/woman you'll ever meet, and you just blew your only chance.

 

[The White Hunter]

I met my girlfriend 10 years ago on an anime forum and told her she was cute, bit rocky for the first few years but it's been smooth for at least 4 of them now, helped when I stopped being really guarded during the early years of our second round of being a couple.

Never got much bad advice to be honest. Never got any m ind.

 

[Thyunda]

My favourite bit of dating and relationship advice comes from Cracked - don't think of finding a relationship as finding someone to share your baggage. Think of a relationship as a commitment to put up with somebody else's baggage. Prevents a whole lot of unhealthy "wah I need a woman because I'm lonely" shite.

 

[stormtrooper9091]

most advice is pointless, as it all comes down to being lucky tbqh

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I haven't had that much success with women, but if I am to speak about the subject...

One thing I see many people in this thread mentioning is that blaming women for your failure is bad, and this is true. That is not a productive way of handling your emotions. However, after this sound statement, they often state with absolute confidence things like "there's always someone who'll be with you" or "someone will always fuck you".

But that isn't NECCESARILY true. It is conceivable that all people in your immediate vicinity either don't want to fuck you, or that there are some, but only people whom you don't want to have sex with. That is a possibility. It may not be likely - but there a seven billion people on the earth, and the odds of it being true for at least some people are...well, big.

Same thing with "many fish in the sea", that is also patently untrue. No two people are alike, and it's possible that the woman or man you just failed to bed is the most attractive man/woman you'll ever meet, and you just blew your only chance.

This is all probably said in all well-meaning, but I can tell you from experience that being the person that fails where others seem to get by just fine can kill you on the inside.

Let me tell you nice people a story:

I once met a girl. I thought she was the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen, and she was funny, and witty, and I really wanted to be with her. So I invited her to a party I threw. And by the end of that party, my best friend, a person who had previously said he had no interest in her, had held her hand and almost kissed her. And that tore me apart, it ruined me. And after the party I exploded at my friend, and at her. All my other friends took their side - and I was alone.

I've never felt so ugly and pathetic in my entire life. I'd talked to her for weeks and I thought we might have had something. And my friend picks her up in an evening, without even really trying.

If you ask a lot of guys/gals who have difficulties with dating and the like, I'm betting most of them have a story or two like that up their sleeve. It took me two years, but I got over what I wrote. But can you blame the people with difficulties for how they feel after things like this?

The advice that you'll find someone does seem rather hollow given that people usually don't have much personal knowledge of the people in question they say it to. At least on forums like this. It seems so uncertain it seems likely to be bad advice.

That said, I'm not sure what feelings you mean about people with difficulties. If you mean feeling hopeless I can't blame them. If they start lashing out and expressing questionable opinions about women then hell yeah I can blame them.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I cant be the only one who realizes that most dating advice is either really out of date or just complete conflicting nonsense.

I can see you've already been taken to task over this post, but I might as well pile on.

1.Communication is key

Yep, it's extremely important. In fact, you cannot have a functional relationship with anyone...romantic or platonic...without it.

...contradicts with 'You shouldn't have to ask, you should just know'

It contradicts with that because that is an absurdity. Generally speaking there are certain things you SHOULD know as a functional adult, but no one is a mind reader.

Stop trying so hard to meet someone just relax and that person will come to you.

The reek of desperation is not a particularly compelling cologne. This does not mean you sit at home in your underoos and wait for a conga line of eligible singles to queue up at your door. And this has nothing to do with gender roles, either. If you're single and lonely, and want a significant other, it behooves you to assess your options and be willing to approach people. You just can't turn it into a fixation.

Guys, just be 'confident' its attractive*****

Yes, confidence is attractive. In women and in men. When I was in my early 20's and NOT CONFIDENT, being told "confidence was attractive" incensed me. Then I did some growing up, and dated some zero-confidence women, and understood what everyone had been talking about the entire time.

Self-deprecation and humility is nice. No one likes arrogance. Simple confidence is not that hard to define. If you're neurotic bag of misery, you're not going to be very fun to spend time with.

When women say they are attracted to confidence, do you know what they are really saying?

"We are attracted to good looking, tall men who have the confidence to approach us after we have given them the green light to do so". Telling an ugly guy to just be "confident" is like putting lipstick on a pig.

These kinds of sweeping generalizations aren't going to do you any favors in the dating world either, FYI.

As to "ugly"..."ugly" is in the eye of the beholder, there are precious few people who are universally, irretrievably ugly. And even those people will be better served by being confident. I've known a lot of people in my life, both beautiful and plain. I have an absolutely gorgeous friend who was a bag of neuroses and couldn't get in a stable relationship to save her life. And I've known gargoyles who were comfortable inside their own skin who had no problems whatsoever hooking up.

In my relatively long experience, when people have issues dating, 99 times out of 100 the problem is their attitude.

 

[Qizx]

Jon Stewart is a sexy man don't besmirch him!

Jon Stewart does not look like a healthy man. Or an in shape one. I think this would fly in the face of your previous point. Moreover, I don't think when people think of Jon Stewart, they think conventionally attractive. The man is earnest, caring and charming, all strong qualities. But a handsome man he is not.

But to the point, there are things that a vast majority of women do not find attractive, and in that case it is mostly a "women don't like X."

I'm hard pressed to think of such things that re close to "vast" majority status without being so vague as to be useless. In reality, most of the things men claim women want seem like they would preclude over 90% of the population. Yet we don't see a world where 10% of the population has harems and the rest are all left alone.

Ok hate to be that person but anything greater than 0 is more... So doesn't really give a good starting ground. I've been approached by far more men than I've approached. I'll leave it up to you to interpret what that means.

Unless you're asserting I've approached zero people, that's a useless retort. And if you are, I would like to see some evidence to back up your assertion.

OK, I was joking about Jon Stewart, trying to be a bit on the lighthearted side. I do love the guy but I admit a looker he isn't. Guess that isn't allowed...

My point is saying "I've been asked out more than I've asked people out" is kind of worthless. Giving a statement with no information to keep it relative doesn't help your argument. Especially when the answer can easily be 0...

 

[sageoftruth]

Personally, my thoughts on "Just be yourself" has been that it needs a revision to "Just be yourself, a date or two after your first date. Until then, mostly be yourself." Not always necessary. Some people are less judgmental than others, but there are some things that people are better off knowing about you AFTER they've learned everything else about you. You don't want your first date to end with that one unflattering thing being the only thing they remember about you.
On the other hand, don't wait too long to mention it, otherwise you'll be asked why you waited so long to bring it up. Just wait long enough so that it doesn't become your sole defining trait when you do mention it. You want to be seen as a person, not a stereotype.

 

[GrumbleGrump]

It really depends on where you live. I live in a country where men are pretty much obligated to ask women out, so just being myself isn't sound advice if I want to go out on dates.

1. I'm not sure those two correlate. Being yourself has little to do with asking people out.

I'm pretty sure I said that if I wanted to have a good time with someone else I'd just go out drinking with friends. You know, the people I don't intend on romancing. I assumed that you'd get the idea that I don't date, 'cos again, I like having fun with friends, not people I don't know.
Also if I wanted to have a coffee, beer, or whatever, I would have it by myself, not with someone I'm trying to impress or whatever the fuck you do when trying to get'cha genitals wet.

Also, you saying that you look like a cross between Jon Stewart and a mountain troll doesn't really tell us much, so I call bullshit on that. I would describe myself as a cross between a fat cat and a gorilla but apparently I'm not ugly, so whatevs.

Call bullshit all you want, but I'm not getting anywhere on looks.

That's right, folks. People look at me and think "winning personality." Something is seriously wrong with this world.

Yeah, that makes a little noise in my head. If someone looks at you and thinks "Wow! He looks so friendly!", or something along those lines, then you must look like the human equivalent of a Labrador. Not something I'd call a trolly Jon Stewart.
To compare, I have the same face that your standard cat has, which would be "Don't come near me or I'll punch you".

 

[Jux]

Despite looking the the offspring of Jon Stewart and a mountain troll, I've never had any problems finding relationships with women. Or men. Or Spiders From Mars.

If I was gay, I'd go for John Stewart, he has that silver fox thing going on.

'Just be yourself' is shitty advice. What if you (the general you here, not you Amyss) are a shitty person? I say be your best self, and always aim to be a better person.

I'd have to say though the absolute worst dating advice came from a guy whose sister I was interested in. "Just get her drunk." Seriously, fuck that guy.

I wrote a whole post here about not letting your twin pretend to be you for a date, but Tumblr ate it.

Is Sweet Valley High still on?

It's posts like this that make me wish there was a 'like' system on this forum.

 

[Lightspeaker]

To be honest I find virtually all dating advice I've ever read to be almost completely useless. You read a huge amount about bettering yourself, doing things with your life, relaxing about it, etc etc. But I've found its all completely useless if you're shy, don't seem to meet anyone and have difficulty approaching people.

 

[Something Amyss]

'Just be yourself' is shitty advice. What if you (the general you here, not you Amyss) are a shitty person? I say be your best self, and always aim to be a better person.

Yes, but okay, say I am a shitty person. And I know you weren't aiming it at me, but I am because even a rhetorical statement could be taken as a shot at someone. Say I'm a terrible person. Would not being genuine be a better situation for any party involved?
"be the best person you can" is a great self-improvement goal, but unless you are who you are, you're deceiving any potential partner and doing neither of you favours.

 

[cdfgku]

While this does depend on your age a bit, I'd say getting yourself out there is the main thing. When you are younger, whether in school/college/uni or starting out in your first couple of jobs you are meeting people all the time, so you have a good chance of meeting someone new that you like. When you get a bit older your life becomes a bit more stable where you can be in a job for over 5 years so you stop meeting anyone new.

I guess my advice would be that if you are struggling to meet people, get yourself on an internet dating site or try speed dating or something. It still has a bit of a stigma attached but this is quickly fading. I'd suggest don't sign up to something like Tinder unless you want something casual. If you are hoping for a long term relationship get yourself on a dating site with a paid membership as you know that people paying are serious about it.

As for the actual date, I personally can be a bit shy when meeting new people however a drink or two takes the edge off and makes me a bit more chatty, so I usually aim for a first date to be in a bar just talking. Sure it doesn't sound like the most exciting first date, but that entirely depends on how well the conversation goes and is a great way to get to know someone's personality.

Being yourself is a fairly vague comment, but you should aim to talk to your date as you would one of your friends, although obviously avoiding any inside jokes. As someone said previously you also may want to tone down certain elements for the first couple of dates. My sense of humour can get a bit weird so I avoid making any particularly dodgy jokes for the first couple of dates. That sense of humour is still part of me though, so I don't shut it out completely.

Anyway, as many people have already said, everyone is different. You will likely have quite a few dates with folks before you find someone that you like and that likes you back. That is completely normal. When you do find someone I would also suggest not waiting 3 days before messaging them. If you liked them send them a text within a couple of hours of the date saying you really enjoyed yourself and thank them for a good night out. It cuts out so much of the "did they like me?" drama you get and makes your interest clear to them. This is just a suggestion mind you, but I can say this has never scared anyone off when I have used it.

One last thing I'll say is dating gets easier the older you get. When you are in School or Uni there are all sorts of expectations of how a "proper" relationship should work or how your ideal partner will look or act. When you get to your mid-twenties and up, people generally have gotten all the crazy out of their system and have calmed. By that point people stop wanting the bad boys/girls and all the hassle that entails and instead want to try and have a long term relationship with someone their personality can connect with.

Hope this helps. Any questions let me know.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I guess my advice would be that if you are struggling to meet people, get yourself on an internet dating site or try speed dating or something.

Thing is...I'm sure this is great advice...but the notion of putting yourself out there like that is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING to someone who has trouble meeting people and is fundamentally shy.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

'Just be yourself' is shitty advice. What if you (the general you here, not you Amyss) are a shitty person? I say be your best self, and always aim to be a better person.

Well then you shouldn't be a shitty person but not just for the purposes of getting a date.

The idea is you don't want to pretend to be something just for dating because you're not going to want to live an act to keep them.

 

[Jux]

'Just be yourself' is shitty advice. What if you (the general you here, not you Amyss) are a shitty person? I say be your best self, and always aim to be a better person.

Yes, but okay, say I am a shitty person. And I know you weren't aiming it at me, but I am because even a rhetorical statement could be taken as a shot at someone. Say I'm a terrible person. Would not being genuine be a better situation for any party involved?
"be the best person you can" is a great self-improvement goal, but unless you are who you are, you're deceiving any potential partner and doing neither of you favours.

Well yea, as far as 'dating advice good for the other person, 'be yourself' is great, cause it allows them to get the hell out of there. But that's why I qualified it with the follow up. It wasn't my intention to say you should deceive anyone, any more than 'putting your best foot forward' is a method of deception.

The root of the problem I have with 'be yourself' is that 'yourself' is probably a whole range of things that vary. I'm myself when I get pissy about the saints losing, and I'm myself when I'm happy for a friend sharing good news. Which 'self' is me? Which isn't? The point of 'being your best self' isn't about putting on a show, it's about being your authentic best self.

Of course potential significant others are going to end up seeing your bad side, and I'm not saying you should hide this from them, but I think it's a lot easier to accept peoples faults once you get to know them and care for them. I doubt my current gf would be with me now had my first few presentations in front of her been my crippling self doubt and my laziness concerning folding my clothes.

 

[Jux]

Well then you shouldn't be a shitty person but not just for the purposes of getting a date.

The idea is you don't want to pretend to be something just for dating because you're not going to want to live an act to keep them.

Well yea, ideally, but sometimes, even if the starting motivation isn't perfect, it can still lead to good results. My biggest motivators for improving my self esteem and getting over social anxiety were that I was terribly afraid of being single forever and dying alone. Not exactly the best of reasons, but it got me to where I am now, and I can look back and recognize that yea, I should have done it for myself primarily, but at the time I wasn't in the best state of mind. The result though has been overwhelmingly a net plus, and even if I found myself single again, I feel confident that I wouldn't revert back to a pit of despair.

 

[Pyrian]

...getting yourself out there is the main thing.

Yup. The primary obstacle of dating is the sorting problem. Trying to get people who don't want to be with you, to be with you, is generally a big waste of time compared to finding someone who does want to be with you. (Similarly, trying to change someone you don't really like is a big waste of time compared to finding someone you really do like.)

Still, basic hygiene, fitness, and conversational skills are good investments.

Thing is...I'm sure this is great advice...but the notion of putting yourself out there like that is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING to someone who has trouble meeting people and is fundamentally shy.

Oh, yes, indeed. Took me decades to be able to manage it consistently, and even so I asked out my wife on Facebook. Shy people in general are at a fundamental disadvantage at social challenges, because of course we are.

I think it helps to regard it as a challenge to overcome rather than an excuse to not try.

I'd talked to her for weeks and I thought we might have had something. And my friend picks her up in an evening, without even really trying.
...
But can you blame the people with difficulties for how they feel after things like this?

Well, yes, very much so. This is a perfect example of an entitlement complex paired with a nearly complete misunderstanding of how dating works. You felt you had some kind of claim on her, and she felt there was nothing romantic between you. Here's the thing. She was right and you were wrong. Most likely she was never interested in you in the first place. The first thing you did wrong was not establish that as quick as you could. Because if she's not interested and you're still "pursuing"-ish, you're doing two things wrong: you're wasting your own time, and ultimately you're being obnoxious to her.