**Terror in Oslo** UPDATE: Anders Breivik gets 8 weeks of custody

[UberNoodle]

Something I don't like about this is all the people jumping on the "muslims did it" bandwagon.
Just check the comments on the youtube video and see what I mean.

Yes, this was probably done by an EXTREMIST muslim group. Don't judge all of them because what very few of them does.

It pisses me off!

An extremist muslim is still a muslim. So, if a muslim extremist group did this, the people saying "muslims did it" are, in fact, factually correct.

Yes, it is. But that was not my point.
I don't like that they try to put all muslims in the same group!

Racism is just going to get worse in this country after this.

Well, they do all get their 'moral' teachings from the same books. The fact that followers of islam in general are more violent and intolerant than the followers of christianity, for instance, speaks volumes for the reason of xenophobia towards muslims.

Look at me, railing on muslims like that. If I say much more, I'm likely to get warned, so enough about them.

It's not like they flew to the building... As long as they do a proper job in the aftermath. We don't even know if the attackers ARE from outside, and most terrorist attacks are by people well integrated into the society of the country in question.

And that's exactly why what I said is a jab at the idiotic airport security in the US.

I'm not asking for a justification... but the terrorists wouldn't attack, say, Zimbabwe, because there wouldn't be a point. They only sacrifice themselves for a cause, after all.

I'm just asking "for what cause?" They aren't entirely irrational, they DO follow some form of logic. They don't go blowing themselves up for fun.

You don't need a reason better than "it's a developed western democratic country".

I don't think anyone blew up here, but those that do, do in fact do it for fun. An eternity of bliss, so I'm told.

Something I don't like about this is all the people jumping on the "muslims did it" bandwagon.
Just check the comments on the youtube video and see what I mean.

Yes, this was probably done by an EXTREMIST muslim group. Don't judge all of them because what very few of them does.

It pisses me off!

An extremist muslim is still a muslim. So, if a muslim extremist group did this, the people saying "muslims did it" are, in fact, factually correct.

Yes, it is. But that was not my point.
I don't like that they try to put all muslims in the same group!

Racism is just going to get worse in this country after this.

Well, they do all get their 'moral' teachings from the same books. The fact that followers of islam in general are more violent and intolerant than the followers of christianity, for instance, speaks volumes for the reason of xenophobia towards muslims.

Look at me, railing on muslims like that. If I say much more, I'm likely to get warned, so enough about them.

It's funny that you say that because throughout history, christianity has been a very violent religion. The Crusades, I'm looking at you.

And the Bible is full of bad morals, and so is the Quran, mainly because they both are old outdated books. But both books also contain good morals.

And christians being more tolerant and less violent; there's no truth in that, unless you can show me proof. Don't try to blame all the muslims for what very few of them does.

'Christian Peacefulness' and 'Muslim Violence' represent a false dichotomy. Remove the religious modifiers and we have two ends of a spectrum that is universal.

Christianity is centred on the 1st World and as such has inherited the sociopolitical aspects of that world - stability, personal freedom, excess, etc.

Islam is centred on the 3rd and 2nd Worlds and thus inherits their instability, corruption, poverty and sociopolitical turmoil.

Religion is a product of society and thus it only reflects it, not forms it. When a culture changes, so too does its religiosity, as with all its other systems.

The same atrocities that Isalmaphobes equate directly with Islamic faith, were perpetrated in the Sri Lankan the civil war, yet 70% of the population are Buddhist. 8% are Muslim. The rest are Hindu and Christian. In terms of the Tamil people (the other side of the war), 88% Hindu, and 5.5% are Muslim and rest are Christian. Yet, Buddhists and Hindus are seen as pacifists.

Incongruous to logic then, that they would commit such atrocities as car and suicide bombings, rape, beheadings and torture.

In Africa, some Christians also commit terrible crimes, of torture, misogynistic abuse. Incidentally, in the affluent West, 'good Christians' oppress the poor by legislating their health care away and moving their jobs overseas to Hindu and Buddhist nations. They also advocate 'enhanced interrogation techniques' and go to church the next day.

Religion is entirely a correlative factor. Sociopolitical, economic and resource factors are the true contributors.

 

[Duruznik]

According to the NY Times, the shooter is a right-wing extremist, not a left-winger. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

Last I heard there have been 80 found dead. Kids were jumping into the water in panic and swam away in an attempt to escape. Kids as young as 16 have been found dead. Holy fuck this is sick.

Edit: Oh, I'm hardly the first to point out the mistake... never mind.

 

[Ninjasander]

'Christian Peacefulness' and 'Muslim Violence' represent a false dichotomy. Remove the religious modifiers and we have two ends of a spectrum that is universal.

Christianity is centred on the 1st World and as such has inherited the sociopolitical aspects of that world - stability, personal freedom, excess, etc.

Islam is centred on the 3rd and 2nd Worlds and thus inherits their instability, corruption, poverty and sociopolitical turmoil.

Religion is a product of society and thus it only reflects it, not forms it. When a culture changes, so too does its religiosity, as with all its other systems.

The same atrocities that Isalmaphobes equate directly with Islamic faith, were perpetrated in the Sri Lankan the civil war, yet 70% of the population are Buddhist. 8% are Muslim. The rest are Hindu and Christian. In terms of the Tamil people (the other side of the war), 88% Hindu, and 5.5% are Muslim and rest are Christian. Yet, Buddhists and Hindus are seen as pacifists.

Incongruous to logic then, that they would commit such atrocities as car and suicide bombings, rape, beheadings and torture.

In Africa, some Christians also commit terrible crimes, of torture, misogynistic abuse. Incidentally, in the affluent West, 'good Christians' oppress the poor by legislating their health care away and moving their jobs overseas to Hindu and Buddhist nations. They also advocate 'enhanced interrogation techniques' and go to church the next day.

Religion is entirely a correlative factor. Sociopolitical, economic and resource factors are the true contributors.

I can't believe people are still quoting these posts. You are entitled to your opinion, but please don't start this again.

And you're still missing a lot of factors to get the whole picture.

 

[Ninjasander]

According to the NY Times, the shooter is a right-wing extremist, not a left-winger. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

Last I heard there have been 80 found dead. Kids were jumping into the water in panic and swam away in an attempt to escape. Kids as young as 16 have been found dead. Holy fuck this is sick.

Edit: Oh, I'm hardly the first to point out the mistake... never mind.

Oh my, not another one! xD

It was an honest mistake made by OP, OP is asleep, please be patient.

 

[GraveeKing]

So it was just a guy going nuts....
Why does he have to look so cute (if a bit date rape)? or... is that just me? I mean someone had to say it!

 

[Erja_Perttu]

Bloody hell - I take back what I said about this guy getting punished to the full extent of the law. This guy deserves a fucking firing squad.

 

[MatsVS]

Just woke up to a death toll rising from 17 to over 90. Fucking hell! Suddenly, 21 years max penalty seems just way too nice. I would not protest if we locked him up for life.

While 21 years is the maximum sentence anyone can receive at any given time, the Norwegian legal system has safety measures in check which keeps them from EVER releasing anyone they fear are not properly rehabilitated. In practice, this guy will most likely never be free again.

That said, my ears are still ringing. :\

 

[RaNDM G]

Damn, that's terrible. Whenever a tragedy like this happens, it makes me wonder how just one human being can be so cruel.

 

[MrGalactus]

The guy behind all this mess have been identified as a conservative christian, and extreme leftist (So much for all the islam fingerpointing). He has also pointed out in debates on the internet how he is against multiculturalism and Islam.

Extreme leftist? Like communist or what? Extreme leftist who is against multiculturalism and Islam?
Umm...Well lets see. He was obviously fiercely anti-labour party which is odd considering they are the middle ground between conservative and liberal politics, but then again I don't know much about how "middle ground" they are in Norway. And he blew up Government buildings?

You said that his motivation was pretty obvious now....please explain?
He could just be a conspiracy crackpot with extensive knowledge of guns and explosives, he could be a man trying to upstart a violent revolution, he could be fiercely against a particular policy in government, possibly an immigration law, what with him being anti-multicultural.

It's not at all clear to me.

Wait, can a conservative be extreme left? I'm confused...

Like I'm saying for 8th time, it's a mistake, but OP went to sleep x)

On this point, I thought it just meant he was a conservative when it came to his christian religious beliefs, but extreme left when it came to political beliefs. That is entirely possible, is it not? Or has it now confirmed to be an error?

According to the NY Times, the shooter is a right-wing extremist, not a left-winger. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

That is the NY Times, a more left wing paper. I am a liberal myself, but never believe what you're told by media outlets with their own agendas.

 

[LE0Night]

Probably already been stated, but people (right wing) here are paranoid about islam, there's this borderline conspiracy-theory term called "sneak-islamization", which speaks for itself, probably...
Rants about islam from him has already been found.

 

[Corpse XxX]

Isn't it 80 -wounded- not 80 dead?

Oslo and Utøya combined now there is 91 people dead..

Tragic day for us in Norway..

 

[Littlee300]

And what the fuck has Norway done?

Being tolerant apparently.
_______________________________________________________________________
It just comes to show you no matter what race/religion there is going to be insane, dumb assholes

 

[Ninjasander]

The guy behind all this mess have been identified as a conservative christian, and extreme leftist (So much for all the islam fingerpointing). He has also pointed out in debates on the internet how he is against multiculturalism and Islam.

Extreme leftist? Like communist or what? Extreme leftist who is against multiculturalism and Islam?
Umm...Well lets see. He was obviously fiercely anti-labour party which is odd considering they are the middle ground between conservative and liberal politics, but then again I don't know much about how "middle ground" they are in Norway. And he blew up Government buildings?

You said that his motivation was pretty obvious now....please explain?
He could just be a conspiracy crackpot with extensive knowledge of guns and explosives, he could be a man trying to upstart a violent revolution, he could be fiercely against a particular policy in government, possibly an immigration law, what with him being anti-multicultural.

It's not at all clear to me.

Wait, can a conservative be extreme left? I'm confused...

Like I'm saying for 8th time, it's a mistake, but OP went to sleep x)

On this point, I thought it just meant he was a conservative when it came to his christian religious beliefs, but extreme left when it came to political beliefs. That is entirely possible, is it not? Or has it now confirmed to be an error?

According to the NY Times, the shooter is a right-wing extremist, not a left-winger. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

That is the NY Times, a more left wing paper. I am a liberal myself, but never believe what you're told by media outlets with their own agendas.

ALL mayor news outlets are saying that he is Right-wing not left, Pinkamena just made an error. I can show you the norwegian news posts if you want to.

The motive was political, he was out to hurt the Labour party.

 

[Duruznik]

According to the NY Times, the shooter is a right-wing extremist, not a left-winger. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

Last I heard there have been 80 found dead. Kids were jumping into the water in panic and swam away in an attempt to escape. Kids as young as 16 have been found dead. Holy fuck this is sick.

Edit: Oh, I'm hardly the first to point out the mistake... never mind.

Oh my, not another one! xD

It was an honest mistake made by OP, OP is asleep, please be patient.

Sorry! I only realised others had corrected Pinkamena after I had posted! D:

And now there are over 90 dead... This is sick. I can't imagine the horror that the young campers are going through. Holy shit...

 

[Artina89]

Wait a second, what does the guy's political alignment and religion has anything to do with this?
The only thing that matters is the fact that the guy is a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Helps to identify motive and on this thread there were people thinking it was a muslim terrorist attack.

OMG , I am in shock , I WAS IN THE SAME GUILD WITH THIS PSYCHO. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/search?page=1&f=post&sort=time&a=Conservatism%40Silvermoon
I still can't believe it...we played in the same guild during TBC and I actually ran some heroics with him and he seemed like a normal guy and then I transferred . I can't believe it , I played and chatted on Vent with a mass murderer .

How do you know that is him?

Check his post history(its in the link) Male (andersnordic ) , 31 , Oslo ....older guild members recognised him by the photos... Spoke with some of them today , they too are in shock , you cannot imagine HOW NORMAL he seemed . Of course , he had some "casual need to get out of my server" , but almost half of the wow community has that attitude.

Edit:+I see now he says he's a political analyst , which all adds up from his facebook page. IT also seems he's been inactive for almost a year , he probably has been planning this ever since.

They always seem to be normal. People tend to not see the alarm bells (if there were any to begin with) until after the fact. Benefit of hindsight. But I suppose how "normal" he was doesn't matter now, what matters is the 91 people that have lost their lives and their families. My heart goes out to them.

 

[Ninjasander]

According to the NY Times, the shooter is a right-wing extremist, not a left-winger. Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html

Last I heard there have been 80 found dead. Kids were jumping into the water in panic and swam away in an attempt to escape. Kids as young as 16 have been found dead. Holy fuck this is sick.

Edit: Oh, I'm hardly the first to point out the mistake... never mind.

Oh my, not another one! xD

It was an honest mistake made by OP, OP is asleep, please be patient.

Sorry! I only realised others had corrected Pinkamena after I had posted! D:

And now there are over 90 dead... This is sick. I can't imagine the horror that the young campers are going through. Holy shit...

No problem!

Yea, and there is still the possibility of more bodies showing up...

 

[LE0Night]

The attacks are now officially deadlier than the 2005 UK terror attacks. Ponder that for a moment.

 

[Ninjasander]

"conservative christian, and extreme leftist"... wait what? Aren't conservative values pretty right-wing? How can he be both of those at once?

Well, in the political spectrum more advanced than just the outdated left-right scale, the extreme-left and extreme-right are very close together.

And extreme-right isn't really right wing. For instance most neonazi groups are against capitalism as a whole. The extreme-right is mostly a definition custom made to fit only neonazi groups.

And to make it even more confusing, the extreme-left has basically the exact same views as the extreme-right, even up to anti-semitism (extreme-right gets there through nazism, extreme-left through being under the influence of Palestinian propaganda).


I think in this case religion plays a crucial role. Being a Christian extremist, he highly likely believes that his views are the only correct ones. That's just inherent to religion. And without that idea that you're right and all others are wrong, it's not possible to commit a crime like this.

I'd wager that when they learn of the motive, he wanted to punish the targeted political party for de-christianising Norway through allowing immigration, or some other nonsense.

It's a typo, it's supposed to say Right wing, not left

OP is asleep ^^

What also shocked me was how he has a permit for two weapons. How does a guy who's an extremist both religiously and politically get a hold of a weapon permit? There's probably a lot of Norwegians going to say this in the coming days, but Norwegian gun control laws have failed, and need to be tightened.

If he couldn't have purchased a firearm, the shooting for one thing wouldn't have happened.

He has 3 guns registered to his name.

He was part of a hunting team/group.

And no one could've expected him doing this.