**Terror in Oslo** UPDATE: Anders Breivik gets 8 weeks of custody

[Low Key]

Typical Islamic terrorists! This is what happened when you preach a religion of hate, it only inspires all your followers to be violent!
Wait he was a White Christian?
......
Now I think it would be unfair to judge all of Christianity on the actions of one man...

He's an extremist. Anything extremist is bad, be they Christian or Islamic or "Festivus". Yes, I am generalizing because it's generally true.

 

[Death_Korps_Kommissar]

Typical Islamic terrorists! This is what happened when you preach a religion of hate, it only inspires all your followers to be violent!
Wait he was a White Christian?
......
Now I think it would be unfair to judge all of Christianity on the actions of one man...

He's an extremist. Anything extremist is bad, be they Christian or Islamic or "Festivus". Yes, I am generalizing because it's generally true.

Exactly my point, I was just commenting on a double standard held by the 'western' world on extremism.

 

[Low Key]

Typical Islamic terrorists! This is what happened when you preach a religion of hate, it only inspires all your followers to be violent!
Wait he was a White Christian?
......
Now I think it would be unfair to judge all of Christianity on the actions of one man...

He's an extremist. Anything extremist is bad, be they Christian or Islamic or "Festivus". Yes, I am generalizing because it's generally true.

Exactly my point, I was just commenting on a double standard held by the 'western' world on extremism.

Oh okay. I just got here, so I don't know the convo started.

 

[Warforger]

Erm what is there to debate? I'm more worried about the Norwegian security, an island which is not too far away from the capital, has to wait what an hour and a half before police can move in and capture the shooter? In that time the shooter killing nearly 100 people? Nevermind the mind blowing-ness it is for one guy to kill that many, like just imagine assuming you went through classes of 30 kids in school, 3 of your classes just dead by one guy. I mean they could barely stop this guy from killing so much, imagine if a country invaded if there would even be a battle? Nevermind that post pointing out the poor quality of European militaries. I mean at the very least 9/11 was done by planes, of which is rather inefficient to put police on all with guns equipped.

Oh dear.. All, this religious bickering again?

The closest, easily understandable thing to label this psycho is Neo-Nazi. His motives don't contain even a hint of religion.

So Osama Bin Laden has full religious motives while this guy does not. By the way, what are his "motives" anyway?

 

[thelonewolf266]

Erm what is there to debate? I'm more worried about the Norwegian security, an island which is not too far away from the capital, has to wait what an hour and a half before police can move in and capture the shooter? In that time the shooter killing nearly 100 people? Nevermind the mind blowing-ness it is for one guy to kill that many, like just imagine assuming you went through classes of 30 kids in school, 3 of your classes just dead by one guy. I mean they could barely stop this guy from killing so much, imagine if a country invaded if there would even be a battle? Nevermind that post pointing out the poor quality of European militaries. I mean at the very least 9/11 was done by planes, of which is rather inefficient to put police on all with guns equipped.

Oh dear.. All, this religious bickering again?

The closest, easily understandable thing to label this psycho is Neo-Nazi. His motives don't contain even a hint of religion.

So Osama Bin Laden has full religious motives while this guy does not. By the way, what are his "motives" anyway?

The current Norwegian Government is pro immigration so is very open to people of different race religion and backgrounds to enter their country.He appears to be very nationalistic so he would disagree with this so he attacked the camp as it was a labour party camp which is the current government at least that's what it seems like to me.

 

[Eveonline100]

Typical Islamic terrorists! This is what happened when you preach a religion of hate, it only inspires all your followers to be violent!
Wait he was a White Christian?
......
Now I think it would be unfair to judge all of Christianity on the actions of one man...

sad but true god wish humanity was different

 

[Jegsimmons]

How's that gun control working for you Norway? I thought banning guns took them out of the hands of criminals and the insane.

So enlighten me, how many dies in US compared to Norway yearly?

This picture is one of my favourites:
[HEADING=3]Per capita intentional homicide.[/HEADING]
[sub]Deeper blue = higher homicide rate.[/sub]

Yeah, clearly gun control isn't working out for us at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

does not account for variables (which are many) or the 2-4 million times a year a gun has prevented a crime or murder.

so that map really has little scientific basis about gun control. since about half of us violent crime isnt gun related.

Conversely, guns preventing crime hasn't exactly done much to prevent the US from having as high a homicide rate.

Just think, if guns weren't preventing crime, then guns would be causing SO MUCH CRIME it'd be like Russia.

thats why the map is misleading. it doesnt count the variables of illegal guns and gun runners, doesnt actually say the amount of violence is gun violence.
and actually, while we have more deaths, if you take the whole population and find the percentage of homicides of that population, it is VERY VERY close to the numbers in European countries. like a ten thousandth of a percent.

Not even close. America has about 310 M inhabitants and 11,000+ shootings a year, Germany has 80 M alone and under 100. Really, Europe as a whole has under 1,000 and Europe has almost TWICE the population of America. Stop listening to Fox News.

well one, thats just wrong.
and two, i dont listen to fox news and that was just uncalled for and immature.

but as i said, many variables need to be considered. How many gun related murders were carried by legally carrying citizens? not as much as people think. A good chunk of our violent crime is caused by people who illegally acquired a gun, illegally in this nation (bordered with mexico, go figure),or didnt even use a gun.
but compare our murder rate with the 2-4 million saved by the use (mostly just the showing, not even fireing a shot) of a fire arm.
the goods outweigh the bad.
but this isnt the thread for this. lets continue it somewhere else.

 

[Sandernista]

Typical Islamic terrorists! This is what happened when you preach a religion of hate, it only inspires all your followers to be violent!
Wait he was a White Christian?
......
Now I think it would be unfair to judge all of Christianity on the actions of one man...

But that white guy is too ugly to be like other good, all-American Christians!

And that Muslim has a beard, only beatniks and terrorists have beards. Have you ever seen a Muslim terrorist without a beard? That means all Muslims are terrorists! AND BEATNIKS!

 

[Ritter315]

To the people saying the guy was a Christian right wing fundementalist? You're provably wrong. In Norway, when you're born you're automatically in the Protestant church unless you sign out of it, which most non-believers do because a part of their taxes go to it. So just him being part of the church in Norway doesnt mean he was a Christian. Second, the party he belonged to was the Progressive Party, which is a center-right arm of the main liberal party in Norway.
So enough people saying the guy was a Christian. First because it may be untrue and second because it would be just like devalueing Muslims for their terrorist actions (which have been WAY More than "Christians")
Saying that Christianity was the cause of the bombing is like saying Islam is the cause of Islamist terrorist activity, its not correct and its wrong to say that.

 

[RelexCryo]

Typical Islamic terrorists! This is what happened when you preach a religion of hate, it only inspires all your followers to be violent!
Wait he was a White Christian?
......
Now I think it would be unfair to judge all of Christianity on the actions of one man...

Um...everybody knows that muslim extremists have as much in common with the average Muslim as the Ku Klux Klan has with the average American. You are arguing with an almost non-existent strawman.

Almost everybody- and I mean almost everybody- already knows the average muslim is a decent human being. You are arguing against the idea that all muslims are bad when almost no one holds that opinion. Especially here on the Escapist.

 

[RelexCryo]

What kind of a gun did he use? A pistol?

According to police, it was a pistol and a "two-handed automated firearm" or something.

He has also published a 1500 pages (yes, one thousand five hundred) long manifesto which, in great detail, explains why and how he committed his crimes. In the manifesto, he explains that he has used the last two years to make the manifesto, the bomb and to plan the attack. All in all, the most thoroughly documented massacre I have ever heard of.

He has supposedly also uttered "It is better to be hated than to be forgotten". I stand by my previous statement when I say, please do not let him get what he wants. He deserves oblivion, not martyrdom.

So it was a pistol and an Assault Rifle?

 

[Low Key]

[HEADING=2] Okie Dokie Lokie! The guy behind all this mess have been identified as a conservative christian, and extreme right-winged (So much for all the islam fingerpointing). He has also pointed out in debates on the internet how he is against multiculturalism and Islam. I think it's easy to see his motivations now. [/HEADING]

No, it's easy to ASSUME you THINK you know what his motivations are.

Here is a link to the manifesto

It explains EVERYTHING he has been up to and was written by the shooter himself.

Maybe, and if it's legitimate it will be one piece of evidence used to prosecute him for his alleged crimes.

Point is, people can speculate but don't pass opinion or theory for fact.

He has already told his motives to the police, he's not trying to hide anything.

Yes, and exactly what he has said has not yet been released to the public so far as I know.
If you'll note, the news centres, or at least the credible ones still describe him as the "suspected gunman" etcetera.

That's because there's a process to go through to determine guilt regardless of his out of court confessions.


Facts are facts and speculation is speculation.

So did you think OJ Simpson was innocent before he came out and admitted he murdered his ex-wife just because the judge and jury gave the verdict of innocent?

I'm not saying this guy is innocent, but under the law he's considered to be innocent until proven guilty. The full extent of his crime and his motives will be revealed over time as the trial progresses. But for myself I'm not involved in the case, I simply know what I hear over the news. So what I KNOW is what is being reported to me and released to the public through the media. I don't presume to know what this guy's motives were though they would APPEAR to be political from what I know.

That's your prerogative then. You can't expect people not to assume just because you don't. Some people fancy themselves as detectives. It's just human nature to be curious about stuff and draw conclusions. We're social creatures and like to hear ourselves talk, my comments included.

But I'm not going to jump to conclusions and paint myself an ass like someone such as Obama did the other day when he said:

U.S. President Barack Obama, said "the entire international community has a stake in preventing this kind of terror" and must cooperate "on intelligence and in terms of preventing these kinds of horrible attacks."

The doofus both infers that the attack was a product of international terrorism, when he didn't know at the time, and he also takes the opportunity to basically do a sales pitch for the usual foreign anti-terror initiatives. Guy should simply offer his condolences, give the token offer of assistance but otherwise keep his mouth shut.

This is true. While we as casual onlookers have the ability to express our opinion on the matter, people in power should be held to a higher standard, simply because whatever they say can be heard around the world and represents a nation. But that's Obama for you.

The only thing I know for sure is that a lot of people are dead and people's thoughts should both be with the victims and their families. Not using this tragedy to promote their own political or religious idealogies.

I joined the thread by quoting you and I haven't read anything else really, but I certainly hope people aren't doing that. I'd be rather disappointed. The man is an extremist just like any other. He's part of a group, but he doesn't represent them as a whole. Same goes for Islamic extremists. I know plenty of Muslims who wouldn't do anything to willingly hurt another person.

 

[MoNKeyYy]

What kind of a gun did he use? A pistol?

According to police, it was a pistol and a "two-handed automated firearm" or something.

He has also published a 1500 pages (yes, one thousand five hundred) long manifesto which, in great detail, explains why and how he committed his crimes. In the manifesto, he explains that he has used the last two years to make the manifesto, the bomb and to plan the attack. All in all, the most thoroughly documented massacre I have ever heard of.

He has supposedly also uttered "It is better to be hated than to be forgotten". I stand by my previous statement when I say, please do not let him get what he wants. He deserves oblivion, not martyrdom.

So it was a pistol and an Assault Rifle?

Does it really matter what kind of guns he used? I think the bottom line here is that this was an unqualified tragedy and a senseless act of violence not only against a civilian population but against kids for christ's sake. I don't care how he did it, how is the most basic and the most irrelevant question that can be asked. If you really want to understand, ask why, like so many other people have been doing.

 

[Octorok]

Um...everybody knows that muslim extremists have as much in common with the average Muslim as the Ku Klux Klan has with the average American. You are arguing with an almost non-existent strawman.

Almost everybody- and I mean almost everybody- already knows the average muslim is a decent human being. You are arguing against the idea that all muslims are bad when almost no one holds that opinion. Especially here on the Escapist.

The poster knows. He's getting across the hypocrisy that happens in the West, labelling Muslims as terrorists, by showing their argument.

This isn't just theory either. My father and I talked about this not twelve hours ago - he says that this guy was a murderous lunatic, and has nothing to do with Christianity.

In the same breath he said that he was different from Islam extremists, since 10% of Muslims are terrorists (no really, he believes that) and that Islam is a violent religion, and how all the terrorist groups are Islam, which means that they aren't just lunatics (apart from believing in Islam, of course) herpaderp yadda yadda yadda.

My point is - no. People do hold that opinion, they are vocal, they are stupid, and they are not to be underestimated.

BEWARE, PEOPLE. THE SAME PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE THIS ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE, DAMN IT, AND DRIVE.

 

[RN7]

So...if this was so-called "muslim terrorists", what does a scandinavian man speaking a nordic language shooting a bunch of people have to do with it?

Race and nationality doesn't matter, remember "Jihad Jane" extremeism can hit anyone.

I like how you even included the abused and twisted version of Jihad in your statement through conveying the intent of your arguement. It really helps to show that what the fuck going on here is not a representation of the Islam religion and that following the religion doesn't associate you with these "terroristic" ideals.

At least it did to me.

 

[Sorafrosty]

He seemingly told his lawyer that it was "horrible to do, but necessary". I shudder when I think of what he did, and it disgusts me.

I have a friend, who was in an accident before this, and is now waking up from an artificial coma. He is an active member of that youth party, and he was supposed to be there. His friends from the party posted on his wall that they were going, and loved to see him there next year. I don't even know if these people are alive.

Though living in a suburb outside of Oslo, I could hear the bomb when it went off, thinking it was just thunder, as there had been a thunderstorm the night before. The floor shook, and the glass cabinet we have shook too, jiggling. Then there were sirens from the police cars, ambulances, you name it. My friend texted me, and that was how I found out. I called her, and turned on the news; horrible pictures.

The worst though, was receiving the news from Utøya. The helicopters circling while the guy was at it... distasteful. There have been so many stories from those who survived, and it seems to me cold-blooded murder. He even went in their tents, and executed those hiding there. These were kids down to 13-12 years-old... I can't imagine the horror they have gone through. All I can say is that it saddens me, and horrifies me that they were subject to this, and that one man did this to them.

 

[RelexCryo]

Um...everybody knows that muslim extremists have as much in common with the average Muslim as the Ku Klux Klan has with the average American. You are arguing with an almost non-existent strawman.

Almost everybody- and I mean almost everybody- already knows the average muslim is a decent human being. You are arguing against the idea that all muslims are bad when almost no one holds that opinion. Especially here on the Escapist.

The poster knows. He's getting across the hypocrisy that happens in the West, labelling Muslims as terrorists, by showing their argument.

This isn't just theory either. My father and I talked about this not twelve hours ago - he says that this guy was a murderous lunatic, and has nothing to do with Christianity.

In the same breath he said that he was different from Islam extremists, since 10% of Muslims are terrorists (no really, he believes that) and that Islam is a violent religion, and how all the terrorist groups are Islam, which means that they aren't just lunatics (apart from believing in Islam, of course) herpaderp yadda yadda yadda.

My point is - no. People do hold that opinion, they are vocal, they are stupid, and they are not to be underestimated.

BEWARE, PEOPLE. THE SAME PEOPLE WHO THINK LIKE THIS ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE, DAMN IT, AND DRIVE.

Only a very small percentage of people think that way. Some people like that certainly exist- out of hundreds of millions it is inevitable that some will feel that way- but the ones who do think that way are minority.