Texas man faces execution after jurors consult Bible to decide fate

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BarkBark

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The Golden Sun said:
Capital punishment is so hypocritical. It sinks the state to the level of the criminal, and its a totally archaic system of justice. And a life sentence would be worse.
We can't keep them or kill them... your logic seems so infallible!

Should we just break into the deep subconsciousness of their mind and manipulate them into becoming productive citizens then?
(I think that is actually a fine idea)
 

lizards

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HaloHappy said:
Rudeboy4360 said:
HaloHappy said:
Here's my philosophy on murder: "An eye for an eye." If you take a life for anything other than self-defense, yours should be taken as well.
Isn't that the Bible's? Pretty sure i heard that from the bible or Koran or some shit like that.

All tho i do agree with you.
No, it's an ancient code that existed in Egypt I think
hammurabis code of laws is what you are thinking of
 

manaman

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elitemonkeh said:
manaman said:
cuddly_tomato said:
elitemonkeh said:
I suppose this forum was destined to become nothing more than a religious flame war (or a political one). It really all comes down to individual moral principle. Does anyone ever walk away from an internet argument with a changed opinion?
Yep. I do all the time. I have just changed my opinion of you on account of that post. I am sorry for being something of a jackass, I think that was due to misunderstandings, and hope you accept my apology. I am a secularist same as you (I am assuming you are secular), but I also vigorously defend the rights of people to practice their religious beliefs without belittlement, scorn, prejudice, or bigotry as long as:-

1. their beliefs don't cause harm to others

and

2. they don't attempt to shove their beliefs down the throats of those who see the world differently.
Funny thing is I know a lot of environmentalists people actually admire, even some of the people who are basically militant atheists. Both could fit quite nicely into your two points, and most people would not even thing of that fanaticism on the same level as religion.

Atheists here, for the most part, seem to have this smug superiority complex that makes them belittle religious beliefs, often without a shred of understanding of the subject. They just repeat lines other people have said.

I am an atheist and I find that behavior detestable.
I hope you aren't referring to me.

On a different note, people please stop spouting off the same points. I must've seen at least 6 people say "It doesn't matter that the bible was used, the man deserves the death penalty."

It's been said
I don't know, was I?

I was expounding on the points of the poster that I quoted. I saw a large number of posts in this threads that appeared to just be those that are anti-religion elated at the the chance to spew their opinion all over the place. I really think those that are simply anti-religion need to stop calling themselves atheists. Seriously I call my self one simply because I don't believe in it.

As far as you are concerned I would have to read your posts to figure out if I was talking about you or not.
 

Icehearted

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This is from the Book of Numbers, and any sane Christian knows that we are not obligated to "obey the Old Testament". I had a feeling as soon as I saw this thread that Christianity would come up (even though the link offers makes no references to it), but many Christians fail to understand that the NT specifically says that we are to follow it and not the OT. Jesus himself gives only two commandments. The OT is old Judaism, which also includes animal sacrifice (a practice I am to understand many Jews to not currently recognize) and being able to pay a man off for raping his daughter.

This sort of mutual ignorance (I mean this inoffensively, ignorant meaning "to not know/understand") to Biblical usage can only spark misinterpretation on both sides. I live in Idaho, where I see "good Christians" with these plastic yellow ten commandments signs on their lawns, and I can't help feeling anger at their obvious ignorance of the bible.

To me, none of this is any smarter than radical Muslim extremists misusing their own holy texts to justify murder. NT preaches forgiveness and compassion, not execution.
 

Zorg Machine

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punkrocker27 said:
cabooze said:
Rudeboy4360 said:
HaloHappy said:
Here's my philosophy on murder: "An eye for an eye." If you take a life for anything other than self-defense, yours should be taken as well.
Isn't that the Bible's? Pretty sure i heard that from the bible or Koran or some shit like that.

All tho i do agree with you.
so if I leave a can on the sidewalk and someone trips over it and breaks his/her neck I get executed for it? and if anyone throws something a someone in a fit of rage and it makes the other person stumble back and say fall of a balcony the person throwing the object gets executed for it?

OT: the man should get a new trial cause killer or no killer he deserves a fair trial without inputs from religious nutjobs.
while i agree he should get a fair trial those things you mentioned are simply examples of negligence and yes they make you responsible, the first one indirectly the second one directly
yeah but you shouldn't be able to be put to death for it. in fact, I believe you shouldn't receive the death penalty for anything other than multiple murders and making someone suffer something worse then death.
 

Jedisolo75

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Aug 12, 2009
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GoldenCondor said:
The link to the source I got this from is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6338320/Texas-man-faces-execution-after-jurors-consult-Bible-to-decide-fate.html

be Texas just trying to break away from the USA.
Please. Pretty please Texas break away from the Union. I?ll sign the petition, I?ll do whatever it takes. PLEASE! Just break away and leave the rest of us the hell alone!
 

FiveSpeedf150

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Sep 30, 2009
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Tool of Iron, eh? Sounds a lot like our law concerning assault, it becomes "Aggravated Assault" the second you involve a weapon.

Texas doesn't mess around with things like this, the big T is one state you do not want to commit murder in.
 

Vuljatar

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cabooze said:
yeah but you shouldn't be able to be put to death for it. in fact, I believe you shouldn't receive the death penalty for anything other than multiple murders and making someone suffer something worse then death.
Why?

Murderers and rapists don't deserve second chances, they don't deserve compassion, and they certainly don't deserve forgiveness.

They deserve death. It's just a shame that executions have become such lengthy and expensive spectacles when one shot to the head does the job just as well.
 

tsb247

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HyenaThePirate said:
I could not have said it better myself. Even if a new jury heard the case, they would be presented with the same evidence, and they would likely reach the same conclusion - bible or not.
 

Master Cerberus

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Oct 11, 2009
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Vuljatar said:
cabooze said:
yeah but you shouldn't be able to be put to death for it. in fact, I believe you shouldn't receive the death penalty for anything other than multiple murders and making someone suffer something worse then death.
Why?

Murderers and rapists don't deserve second chances, they don't deserve compassion, and they certainly don't deserve forgiveness.

They deserve death. It's just a shame that executions have become such lengthy and expensive spectacles when one shot to the head does the job just as well.
^ This...

Also, to take a radical stance on the issue, people have become rather separated from the whole execution process. They find it "inhumane" and "offensive" to witness these people getting whats coming to them. I think a lot of people don't consider the consequences of their actions (in situations that merit severe legal punishment) when it comes to such things as executions. I am sure if people were more familiar with them then they wouldn't do stupid things that lead to them.

More on topic, the Bible should not be "allowed" withing a certain distance of a building used to conduct legal proceedings. It is not something any competent adult should use as a sources of inspiration or a guideline to make any sort of decision unless it is directly involved with their own beliefs. Its inexcusable to have these people bring bibles into the courtroom, furthermore, people who exhibit such strong ties to religion shouldn't even be allowed to try someone in the first place. The reason? Because they probably don't have a mind flexible enough to evaluate the problem presented to them in an objective manner...unless its as black and white as that case.
 

kitsunema

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GoldenCondor said:
The link to the source I got this from is here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6338320/Texas-man-faces-execution-after-jurors-consult-Bible-to-decide-fate.html

In short, Kristian Oliver burgled a home and killed its owner with the owner's own rifle (beat to death).

When it was his trial just recently, some jurors had copies of the bible with them, using which they controlled his fate.
One of the bible passages used was "And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death."

I believe this is highly unconstitutional, and could be Texas just trying to break away from the USA.

What do you think about this?

EDIT: I do also think he should have been sentenced to death, but isn't using the bible as evidence sort of illegal?
It's like if I looked upon Harry Potter books when deciding if someone should die...
yeah most liekly his crime got capital and eh would be executed anyway in texas it didnt matter if they were quting bible or not its just how texas's due process works
 

Kris015

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Feb 21, 2009
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The name describes everything.. Kristian, what kind of name is that *prrrph*.. Oh, wait...
 

incal11

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Oct 24, 2008
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Vuljatar said:
cabooze said:
yeah but you shouldn't be able to be put to death for it. in fact, I believe you shouldn't receive the death penalty for anything other than multiple murders and making someone suffer something worse then death.
Why?

Murderers and rapists don't deserve second chances, they don't deserve compassion, and they certainly don't deserve forgiveness.

They deserve death. It's just a shame that executions have become such lengthy and expensive spectacles when one shot to the head does the job just as well.
Some of them do deserve second chances, your own lack of mercy is part of the bleak world that turned some of them into what they are.

Also innocent persons are executed every year in Texas; if that ever happens to you I bet you'd be happy to have a fair trial that proves your innocence, rather than hear "let God judge him" and be shot.
 

Bilbo536

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Sep 24, 2009
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Cliff_m85 said:
Great job Texas, you just released a killer because you have a hard-on for the Bible.
They actually killed him. I think you may have misread the post.
 

amirirowlings

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Oct 17, 2009
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The death sentence originates from the method of thinking applied by the old world. In Australia (where I live) the death penalty is not used. The highest sentence that can be passed is life imprisonment. I may not live in America but I do know about the separation of church and state. This article of the constitution does not allow a law or sentence to be passed with a religious basis. So that case could be unconstitutional but unfortunately Texas isn't the greatest place for handing out fair sentences.
 

TheRealCJ

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Neonbob said:
...that person should be sentenced to death anyway.
Beating someone to death, as far as I know, is something punishable by execution.
Just because the jurors had their bibles does not mean the burgler should get to escape his fate, or that they necessarily made the wrong call.
You forget, this is texas.

Having a low IQ is something punishable by execution. Being the wrong colour/religion is punishable by (unofficial) executuon...
 

TheRealCJ

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Bendon said:
If God didn't want us using guns, why did he create them? huh? huh?!
If god didn't want there to be abortions why did he invent abortion clinics?

If god didn't want Jewish people, why did he invent Judaeism?

If god didn't want there to be gays, why did he... you know what, nevermind
 

Vuljatar

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TheRealCJ said:
Neonbob said:
...that person should be sentenced to death anyway.
Beating someone to death, as far as I know, is something punishable by execution.
Just because the jurors had their bibles does not mean the burgler should get to escape his fate, or that they necessarily made the wrong call.
You forget, this is texas.

Having a low IQ is something punishable by execution.
Low IQ and/or mental illness aren't "get out of jail free" cards. And that's a good thing.