"That action did not warrant those evil points!"

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Vrex360

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Mar 2, 2009
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Plenty of games have moral choice systems nowadays and in some ways it's a good thing for storytelling, especially in RPG games. It helps to have some kind of marker telling you whether you are a saint or satan depending on how you behave in the game and for the most part it's fair... if you rescue orphans from a burning house then you are good but if you laugh and roast marshmellows on their smoking corpses then you are clearly evil.

But there are those times, when we get positive or negative points where we feel like either:
A. The point alignment depending on the action should have been the other way
B. It shouldn't have effected your morality alignment whatsoever.

I'll give an example of what I mean.

In Mass Effect 2 my Shepard was having a conversation with Tali, at one point she casually drops in a potential interest in Shepard and my Shepard was still being faithful to Ashley, her picture still prominently sitting on his desk, and as a result politely turned Tali down.
Suddenly I'm staring at 2 renegade points earned for apparently not having feelings for Tali. I honestly don't see why this had to effect my alignment at all, I told Jack and Miranda similarly that I wasn't interested and it didn't give me bad points then, only with Tali. If anything I should have gotten positive points for not being swayed into being unfaithful.
In any case it wasn't a very renegade way to turn someone down, the real renegade way to say I wasn't interested would have been to laugh at the thought and walk away insulting her surely. Not just politley saying I don't have feelings.

True it's not that big of a deal and true, two renegade points isn't so bad but I just think that it was moral alignment effecting.

Likewise when I played Fable 2 and there was a section where there are some starving prisoners and you have the option to either deny them food or give them food at the cost of your experiance points, why does the latter earn positive points? Because the fact is, food or not they are never leaving this cell. They are still going to starve, giving them food is only going to drag out the process.
So the only consequence of me helping them in the short term is that they have longer to starve to death in the long term.

Again I know I'm thinking about it too much but again that's sort of the point of this thread. Are there any moral choices in games that you can think of that effect your alignment inb a positive or negative way that in your own personal opinion should have been the opposite or even not been alignment effecting at all?
 

Ranorak

Tamer of the Coffee mug!
Feb 17, 2010
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Killing Tenpenny in his tower in Fallout 3.
He might have been evil, but I killed him before I knew that, thus gauss rifle blasting him of the top of a tower to a long and stressful fall, that eventually leads to a quick plop on the concrete below was considered to be a good act, and a example to children everywhere.

Which I wasn't to shy to show off again, might I say.
 

Yureina

Who are you?
May 6, 2010
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Killing Moriarty in Fallout 3. That guy is a bastard, pure and simple. Karma loss for killing him is ridiculous.
 

fenrizz

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Feb 7, 2009
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In Fallout 3 I only did good deeds.

I was nice to people, gave away free water, did nice deeds (missions) and was generally a good person.
But still I had very bad karma.
Why? Becauyse whenever I saw bottlecaps, weapons or ammo I would steal it.

And voila, I was the scourge of humanity.

Seems strange, to say the least.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
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Killing people that chuck rocks at me in Infamous.

Im sorry, but if you throw rocks at me I consider it my civic duty to zap your ass.
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
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Yureina said:
Killing Moriarty in Fallout 3. That guy is a bastard, pure and simple. Karma loss for killing him is ridiculous.
It took me a few goes to figure out I could "explode his pants" to get the password, Yeah I'm crap.

I foresee alot of Fallout and Mass effect comments.

Ranorak said:
Killing Tenpenny in his tower in Fallout 3.
He might have been evil, but I killed him before I knew that, thus gauss rifle blasting him of the top of a tower to a long and stressful fall, that eventually leads to a quick plop on the concrete below was considered to be a good act, and a example to children everywhere.

Which I wasn't to shy to show off again, might I say.
I like to kill him on his balcony to take his suit, then I wear it and walk the wastes going "Righto Righto!"

With Charon wearing Abe Lincoln's hat, ZOMBIE LINCOLN!
 

Swarley

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Apr 5, 2010
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I shot a guy when it looked like he was going to rape some chick in RDR, and got -50 honor, explain that one.
 

The Mapper

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Feb 17, 2010
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i don?t really like moral choice in game it seems that they are centred around what the game makers think you should do. For example there is a is a part in a game I cant remember which some RPG. where a town is hunting a kid coss he is turning in to a werewolf and the ways you can fix this problem is to kill the kid and save the town or to kill the hole town to stop them killing the kid. l8er you can cure the kid but you have to do neither and let some wizards daughter die in an attack. But this is where the problem lies killing 1 kid to save about 50 ppl in the village is evil where as killing all the ppl in the village to save 1 kid is good I don?t get that at all.

PS: letting the kid kill some ppl which the wizards daughter was among so I could cure him was counted as very good!

Also saving the Drow from being burned at the stake in BG2:SOA is evil WTF yer it?s a Drow but I think letting her die was more evil that saving her.

so i think that games should do more of the way that Dragon age did it there is no good or bad point only a change in actions later on for both good or bad options. This meant that I could play how I wanted to I was good but hated mages and distrusted and was unsympathetic to them at every opportunity. This in most games would have made me neutral but I don?t think I should I was always doing what my character though was right to uphold good and that meant killing mages.
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
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Also in Fallout with Charon, my current save I'm thinking of Killing him because he keeps saying "I don't like the look of this place" while we are in my Megaton House.

What he fuck is wrong with it Charon?, I keep it tidy and got a Nuka Cola machine, got an infirmary so we can patch ourselves up after a firefight.

Fucker, he just doesn't appreciate anything I do for him.

and he leaves the toilet seat up!
 

Vrex360

Badass Alien
Mar 2, 2009
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ColdStorage said:
Also in Fallout with Charon, my current save I'm thinking of Killing him because he keeps saying "I don't like the look of this place" while we are in my Megaton House.

What he fuck is wrong with it Charon?, I keep it tidy and got a Nuka Cola machine, got an infirmary so we can patch ourselves up after a firefight.

Fucker, he just doesn't appreciate anything I do for him.

and he leaves the toilet seat up!
Yeah, let's be honest here... Fawkes is a much better roomate, even though he is a little too transfixed on American history, he at least remembers to put the toilet seat up.
 

Megalodon

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May 14, 2010
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The stupidest thing like this I've come across was in Fable 1, where killing undead that are attacking you gives good points. Over the course of a plot driven graveyard section, successfully playing the game had undone most of the effort I'd put in to making my character evil. I fail to see how killing hostile things makes me less evil.
 

VondeVon

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Dec 30, 2009
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Fable 2. Bribing the Temple of Light for Good points.

Seriously. Murder in the morning, loot their corpses then use the money to buy back goodness? Something is wrong with that picture.
 

RyQ_TMC

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Apr 24, 2009
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fenrizz said:
In Fallout 3 I only did good deeds.

I was nice to people, gave away free water, did nice deeds (missions) and was generally a good person.
But still I had very bad karma.
Why? Becauyse whenever I saw bottlecaps, weapons or ammo I would steal it.

And voila, I was the scourge of humanity.

Seems strange, to say the least.
So in essence, you were the kind of guy who smiles at people and then swipes their wallets when they're not looking. That counts as good now?

Me, I'm still bothered with chapter 1 in The Witcher, because a strong case can be made that Abigail is in fact the one who summoned the Beast and all things considered, not as innocent as she claims to be - certainly no better than the villagers. And yet, the game arbitrarily declares saving her and massacring the village a "good" act.
 

Protocol95

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May 19, 2010
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In mass effect 2 i like to be a pargaon. So during the...

mission in the collector ship I was pretty darn angry at what the illusive man did. (Long story short: knew we were going into a trap and didn't tell us.) I told my allies to not worry right now and focus on the mission. However once the mission ended I was given renegade points for telling the illusive man that I knew he'd do something like this.

It basically went like this:
Me: Why the hell would you do this? You could've at least warned us.
IM: Yes, but we got valuable info on the collectors!

If he had warned us we still would've gotten the info!
 

thiosk

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Sep 18, 2008
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Tali's race is DYING.

Not making crazy hybrid bastard children is renegade behavior.
 

Zannah

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Jan 27, 2010
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VondeVon said:
Fable 2. Bribing the Temple of Light for Good points.

Seriously. Murder in the morning, loot their corpses then use the money to buy back goodness? Something is wrong with that picture.
Well, it's as close to reality as moral choices in games are going to get :p
 

Zacharine

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Apr 17, 2009
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The Mapper said:
Also saving the Drow from being burned at the stake in BG2:SOA is evil WTF yer it?s a Drow but I think letting her die was more evil that saving her.
Ah, the BG II reputation system is not the good-evil axis of your character.

It is the good/lawful-evil/chaotic axis people in general see you as. You helped a drow, the spawn of everything unclean, source of misery and childhood fright from tales come alive. Of course you are going to take a reputation hit. If you banish Viconia soon after, you regain that rep as people will think you simply did not approve of the method of execution, but in principle had nothing against Viconia getting buried six feet under for the crime of being a drow.

None of that impacted your alignment.
 

Curious Georgie

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May 13, 2010
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Megalodon said:
The stupidest thing like this I've come across was in Fable 1, where killing undead that are attacking you gives good points. Over the course of a plot driven graveyard section, successfully playing the game had undone most of the effort I'd put in to making my character evil. I fail to see how killing hostile things makes me less evil.
I know what you're talking about, but in Fable it's far too easy to change your alignment anyways. Once you've racked up enough experience you can just keep killing guards in the towns where you're allowed to have a weapon, and you can be full evil in a few minutes using that tactic.