THAT double standard, why does it exist?

[Mikeyfell]

Ok actually I dont know how old it really is, probably not that old since gener roles have changed and everything

anyway we all know this double standard

1. A guy goes around sleeping with as many women as possible, he is probably considered cool and well respected by guys

2. a woman goes around sleeping with as many guys as possible, she is a slut/whore/skank/tramp and many others

now why is this?

If you have a key that can open any lock, you have an awesome key.
If you have a lock that can be opened by any key, you have a crappy lock.

Is the completely asinine alpha male malarkey response, [sub]that's still kinda funny when you think about it.[/sub]

It's because guys are easy. Women have no respect for women who constantly reach for the low hanging fruit.

A lesbian friend of mine told me that so don't hate me for it.

I suppose there are reasons, a woman who sleeps around that much usually indicates a lack of self respect, (and sometimes the whole sleeping around thing usually comes with being an unlikeable person) how ever I do admit that's generalizing. which we shouldn't do, that's just speaking from (very limited) experience [/B]

That's the cart before the horse. I think lack of self respect comes from being called "slut" all the time. Sleeping around and being unlikeable? Who would sleep with an unlikeable person? Oh, right guys.

 

[velcrokidneyz]

*ahem* an analogy I've seen before and used previously on the site but it requires repeating

A key that opens any lock is an awesome key, whereas a lock that opens to any key is just a shitty lock.

EDIT: oops, ninja'd oh well, the point remains

EDIT the second: Also isn't it instinctual that a man try and procreate as much as possible to further the species? Thats what was up back in the prehistoric eras i thought.

 

[NathLines]

HEY, LISTEN!

There's a difference between a woman who gets SLEPT WITH and a woman who SLEEPS WITH men. If a woman just likes going around getting humped, it's not so strange for her to be called a slut(I'm just stating facts, I think it's perfectly cool for someone to live like that).

Now, if a woman goes around and make men HER BITCHES, then god damn she would be respected. At least by me.

I need to agree that it is stupid for a guy to be respected because he goes around bedding women though. I know a guy like that and I really dislike him for it.

 

[Evidencebased]

snip

I would think that a person who sleeps with a lot of people who they don't really want to sleep with -- to get attention, or because they are pressured, or to try and live up to a reputation -- is a person with low self-esteem, male or female. Guys (especially younger immature ones) generally get more esteem from their peers for sleeping with a bunch of different women than women do, but it's not because there is something inherently "better" about a man who has a lot of sex than a woman who does.

Historically, not only have women been more at risk for having multiple male partners (thanks to pregnancy) but it's also been very threatening to the men, and their ability to ensure that they have heirs -- the mother knows perfectly well that the baby is hers, but the father can't be sure. Because of this anxiety a lot of men had, society labeled a woman who sleeps around with names like "slut" (and in many places today she can still be killed for it) so that her husband could control who she had sex with, and make sure that all her children were his. Women were property, and were good only for having men's children, so it was important to make sure they only had the right men's children -- her body was her husband's and therefore off-limits to anyone else. This was enforced by shaming women who didn't obey (or divorcing or raping or murdering them.)

You can see this sexist possessive impulse in the lock-and-key metaphor, actually. A woman's body is supposed to be a "good" lock and only open for one "key" right? That's a pretty unsubtle way of putting that she should only belong to/sleep with one man, isn't it?

when did monogomous relationships become a bad thing i postulate to you.

Who said they're bad? I'm a big fan, personally. The only bad thing is when some people are forcing others into monogamous relationships against their will, and using shaming and violence to enforce it. It's also clearly enforced unequally; no one is restricting men's sexual partners in this setup, it's only women who are the "locks" and must stay pure and monogamous (while the keys are downright encouraged to try out as many "locks" as possible.) It's entirely one sided; women aren't jealously strapping chastity belts onto all their men yanno. When one class of people is being controlled just to have children for the other class, that's terrible, don't you think? It's like how there's nothing wrong with hard work, but slavery -- forcing others to do your hard work -- is generally considered a shitty thing.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

I usually think both genders are sluts.

This! There is unfortunately a social double standard.

But there is more to that. Psycology usually considers that both have a lack of self respect. And in practice I think its either that or just addiction to sex. And total incapacity in establishing relationships. Not just as a couple, even friendships. Would like to read a study on the subject, but all the people (notice I said people) I know with this behavior have very disfunctional families.

 

[similar.squirrel]

It's difficult to phrase this..Has anybody read The Selfish Gene? Specifically the chapter on sexual selection?

Edit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anisogamy

Basically, when separate genders came about, they adapted different reproductive strategies, whereby the males took a 'Zergling Rush' kind of approach and the females put a lot more resources into developing the next generation. It would follow that a female is expected to devote more of herself to a sexual relationship, whereas a male is expected to spread his genes as widely as possible.

There are many other factors involved, but it's disingenuous to overlook the basics. That said, one can't ignore the myriad social factors involved either.

I'm not saying it's right, either. We have evolved enough to be able to percieve these things, which means we should be able to overcome them.

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd.
I saw a funny response to this online, note I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP. "If a key opens many locks, it's a master key, but if a lock opens for many keys, it's a crappy lock."

Now, more serious answer, I'd say it just stems from the differences between genders, mostly social/nurture differences. Overall, men tend to be more gung-ho about sex, and women more withdrawn, because that's what's expected by most western cultures.

Thats what's expected by almost all cultures. At least all the ones I came across. The few exceptions are a few small communities with matriarch systems.

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

I'm probably wrong, but we live in a patriarchal society which traces lineage through the father. The problem is that, up until recently, you don't know who the father is. You just take a woman's word for it. If word gets out she sleeps around, a man's credibility is ruined. The father suddenly is left with a girl no respectable man wants, and the husband suddenly has to look at his kids with suspicion. If it's not his kid, what happens when someone else claims his property? It's serious business. Therefore, anything which could be considered as being sexually active would put a girl in question.

 

[theevilsanta]

Men and women are different. It's in our genes.

My female significant other thinks it's kind of hot that I had a somewhat crazy sexlife before devoting myself to her. She gets to "tame" me or something.

I f'ing hate that she gave oral sex to one guy, once, seven years ago.

If that story makes sense you are a normal human being. Men and women are different.

 

[Ympulse]

Guys have to hunt for sex. Women have it hand delivered.

Pretty much this, with how westernized society works.

 

[Dexiro]

anyway again what about guys? does a guy who sleeps around alot indicate lack of self respect? I dont think so

I actually think this double standard might just be a stereotype.

When I think of a "slut" or "whore" I think of a prostitute, or someone who's dressed in the same way and that kind of applies to box sexes - though male prostitutes are less common.

But if I think of a regular female with a regular degree of self-respect sleeping around a lot I don't think anything of it.

 

[VanQ]

I believe it's because women are not nearly as easily pleased as a man is, they are much pickier in their choice of partners. This image sums it up well, but I will spoiler it so people without a sense of humour can ignore it:

Spoiler

 

[Labyrinth]

It comes down to a socially constructed convention. Women have been traditionally held up as gates of morality whether or not they have been conventionally in control of their own sexuality at the time. There's a 'virgin-whore' dichotomy at play here. Virginal, chaste women were lauded as femininely pure and honourable while whore were, well, whores with all the connotations. It came down to the fundamental inequality by which women were not allowed to be sexual while men were. Of course this was tied to religious ideals, rather ironically considering the ubiquitousness of myths about female corruption of men in monotheistic canon. See Adam and Eve for this.

There are also issues of patriarchy and family lines, which are traditionally passed through the males. Especially with regards to property and inheritance. Paternity tests have helped here but lingering insecurities exist. These were compensated for by demonising women who had more than one partner backed up by the idea that it would 'sully' the blood.

In modern times this has continued, though it is slowly being turned back. It's evolved into an object/subject division in the heteronormative sphere. Women are the objects of desire, that is the thing which is desired, the focus of sexual images and the thing upon which the subject, the male, acts. Men are the ones who experience desire of the objects. Men chase women. Men are the active, women are the passive. It's an ongoing theme. It's also repeated in the oft-told "Lock and key" analogy which proposes that women are to be opened by men, for male gratification. All the same bullshit, really, and all coming back to an essentialist argument by which men are sex-driven, and women are sex-less.

Slut-shaming is a really unfortunate part of contemporary culture. It devalues the idea that individuals can choose their own sexual identity by forcing the concept of committed monogamy on everyone not to mention the furthering of the idea that sex is bad, is evil, is immoral and dirty. More on women, of course, given the proliferation of entrapment of men myths around marriage and engagement. It is also phenomenally damaging to all kinds of people because it just doesn't suit everyone. Screw sex negativity.

 

[Fire Daemon]

I'm pretty sure that guys are the ones who go against this double standard. Every guy I know either doesn't care about anyones sex life, or has an equal "slut" bar for both sexes and tend to treat "sluts" of both genders equally.

Rather; I believe that it's women who perpetuate this double standard, by using slut as part of their regular bitching about each other vocabulary, but by restricting it for describing other women. You'll never see a female call a male a slut, but I know plenty of males who call individuals of bother genders sluts, and sure this is all anecdotal evidence, but I have a feeling that most of you will see something similar if you stand back and have a look.

EDIT: Oh, I don't think you'll find anyone actually caring about anyone else's sexual prowess, and hence, half of this double standard is broken. Maybe some people care about where their friend put his dick, but the entire thought is alien to me and I find it hard to believe.

 

[Belated]

The double standard probably still exists because of the way society is right now when it comes to dating. Picking up girls as a guy is harder than picking up guys as a girl. If you're a girl, picking up guys is effortless. Just look cute and walk up to some random guy and say "Want to have sex?" That's it. It would certainly work on me. This approach would probably work on most of us, excluding those in fear of damnation. On the other hand, if a guy wants to pick up a girl, he has to say something interesting, be charming, and buy her drinks. Therefore, it requires decent effort to have sex with a lot of girls, and little effort to have sex with a lot of guys. The thing that takes more effort is generally seen as a "feat", while something easy to do is not seen as a feat.

Stop. This is not offensive. Do not put me on probation for making that statement. It is an opinion based on social observation.

The same goes for relationships. The guy is still more frequently the one who has to ask the girl out, and more frequently the one to pay for the date, and more frequently the one charged with the task of making sure the girl enjoys herself. It's not as often the girl's responsibility to make sure the guy enjoys himself. Dating is still most commonly done in an old-fashioned manner. The guy takes the girl out, rather than the girl taking the guy out, or them taking each other out. (Though that is at least getting more frequent.)

I'm not saying it's right. I'd love to live in a society where girls ask guys out just as frequently as guys ask girls. Where she's just as likely to pay for dinner as he is. Where if the sex isn't good, it's both of their faults, not just the guy. But as things are now, guys are still the "hunters" and the girls are the "catch".

A related but opposite double standard is one related to money. If a girl doesn't want to spend any money on a date, that's fine. But if a guy doesn't want to spend much money on a date, he's cheap?

What I'm getting at is, the way dating works creates double-standards for both genders. There are things about it that are unfair to girls, as there are things about it that are unfair to boys. Personally, I wouldn't mind a girl who's had a lot of sexual partners. Just as long as she's not prone to cheating.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I find it in poor taste when other guys talk about their sexual conquests. If a guy is with one woman for a long time then it's pretty obvious they're doing stuff. If a guy is with a ton of women I don't want to hear about one-night-stands (which may or may not have happened)

As for women: I never ask and don't have to worry about my female friends going on about what they do with other people in the dark.

I don't care who you're sleeping with, how often you sleep with them or, how soon you plan on sleeping with someone else. Just do it quietly or at least far away from me.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Here's a new double standard for the thread! Since you all seems stuck on the 'Guys a stud, girls a whore' one, here is a new one. Still involving sex.

A guy can be fine with the idea of a threesome with two other women. But if the woman suggest two other guys version threesome the male is more often against it even if the woman is alright/open to the first option. The concept is fair from both views, but usually far less accepted on one version from males.

A variant of this: having sex with 2 identical twin sisters is supposedly the height of awesome for men of a certain mindset. I'm not sure how they'd react to an offer of a threesome involving their own brother.

 

[Nemu]

If a key opens lots of locks, then it's a master key. But if a lock is opened by lots of keys, then it's a shitty lock.

Read Tucker Max a lot? Just curious.