The Alien Franchise Needs to End

[SonOfVoorhees]

No, there are loads of stuff you can do with them. The comics series added interesting and original stuff. Hollywood just has zero originality. What about the Earth War trilogy? What about the one with red and black aliens fighting each other? Or where they used the Alien Queen royal jelly as an energy stimulant?

Again.....hollywood doesnt have the balls to do something original and interesting.

 

[The White Hunter]

Xenomorphs vs Goku.

Xenomorphs vs Metal gear.

Or my personal most anticpated Xenomorphs vs The Little One Inside The Flask.

All of these things can and should be done.

But nah really the franchise bores me to be honest, the movies are driven largely by stupid people being stupid and it's annoying to me to watch.

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

My personal opinion has always been that the ultimate failure of the franchise has been an attempt to recreate or out do Aliens with little concern about what made Alien such a great movie.

That's not to say that every subsequent film should have tried to recapture the "unknown terror" bit, just that they didn't have to try to constantly one up the Colonial Marines action movie bit.

One of the recurring themes in the Alien series is the danger or agenda based science and politics. The intent of using the Xenomorphs (or the engineers) to achieve the goals of a corporation or politician regardless of the cost of human lives is such a broad spectrum concept that it can be applied to virtually any setting.

Instead we keep getting the Alien set up as the primary villain mostly an excuse for the prisoners/Space Pirates/Predators to shoot up the set and blow shit up.

I sort of agree but also disagree. I think Alien 3 was an attempt to return to Alien, while the other movies (AVP included) went way heavy on the action and offered very little Alien "mythology" or backstory to the whole franchise, which is why I loved Prometheus so much. I had been waiting years and years to have some of the questions answered (Where did the ship come from? Who created the aliens? Who is the space jockey?) and none of the subsequent sequels after Aliens made any effort to delve into that material while ramping up the alien action. And it was a colossaly wasted opporrtunity.

On a side note, have you read any of the unused Alien 3 scripts? They're pretty interesting. Some are actually quite good, while others are shite. A few of don't even feature Ripley, per the studio's request to write her out of the sequel. There's one from Eric Red of "The Hitcher" that you should check out. It's not great, but it features some of the themes you bring up about agenda-based science.

http://home.online.no/~bhundlan/scripts/alien3/

 

[Bad Jim]

The problem I've always had with Aliens in games is that in the movies the Xenos are near perfect killing machines, and that's why they are cool. Any game where you are a marine and you are killing hundreds of them feels disappointing to me. I think Dead Space did the right thing by basically copying the Aliens aesthetic but changing the baddies to be more shambling and less deadly.

Actually, we don't have a lot of evidence that the Xenos really are 'perfect' killing machines. The strongest opposition they get in the movies are the marines in Aliens, but they are not good soldiers. That they end up following a civilian is good indication of how worthless they are, especially since her plan is the same one that the dead colonists tried.

I know a lot of characters in the movies seem to think they are unstoppable, but it is never properly explained what they would do against entire armies, citizen militias everywhere, scientists and engineers coming up with more efficient ways to kill them and with the humans having a massive numerical advantage.

 

[kasperbbs]

For me alien movies ended after the 3rd one. Everything else is just stuff that happens to have aliens in it for some reason. I don't really mind their existence and i kinda liked prometheus.

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

For me alien movies ended after the 3rd one. Everything else is just stuff that happens to have aliens in it for some reason. I don't really mind their existence and i kinda liked prometheus.

Another Prometheus liker on the board! We're gaining momentum! I feel like the tide may actually be turning in favor of Prometheus. Let's keep it going -- don't stop until the haters relent and apologize! The Fire rises!

#NotYourXenomorph

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

 

[R0guy]

No, it's cool, I didn't really feel pressured or forced to change my stance. Alien, at least to me, WAS the better movie of the two. I totally get that these are opinions, we good. I also enjoyed Prometheus, is all.

Cool
Although now that's out of the way, I agree with your point about classics (and horror movies) not being immune to stupid, but I disagree with your given examples and I believe you could've done much better.

For example, in Alien... I'd just love to know if the scriptwriters have ever actually chased a cat who really didn't want to go to the vet before (cat Underworld) or tried to handle one while the vacuum cleaner is on (cat Cthulhu). I'm a cat person, I love cats (see my avatar), but to think that Ripley would have purposefully gone out of her way to engage in a day-long ordeal with Mr Jones (and that it didn't end up being a day-long ordeal) while there's a giant screeching penis monster stamping across the hallways, a loud-ass alarm and random hissing steam vents, is beyond ridiculous. Sound in space? Cold fusion bombs freezing volcanoes (ST:Into Darkness)? Fuck that noise, this is the shit that gets me riled up, right here. Nevermind that she didn't lose a finger or an eye in the process of stuffing him in a cage (cat DMV).

/end rant ;D

 

[the December King]

No, it's cool, I didn't really feel pressured or forced to change my stance. Alien, at least to me, WAS the better movie of the two. I totally get that these are opinions, we good. I also enjoyed Prometheus, is all.

Cool
Although now that's out of the way, I agree with your point about classics (and horror movies) not being immune to stupid, but I disagree with your given examples and I believe you could've done much better.

For example, in Alien... I'd just love to know if the scriptwriters have ever actually chased a cat who really didn't want to go to the vet before (cat Underworld) or tried to handle one while the vacuum cleaner is on (cat Cthulhu). I'm a cat person, I love cats (see my avatar), but to think that Ripley would have purposefully gone out of her way to engage in a day-long ordeal with Mr Jones (and that it didn't end up being a day-long ordeal) while there's a giant screeching penis monster stamping across the hallways, a loud-ass alarm and random hissing steam vents, is beyond ridiculous. Sound in space? Cold fusion bombs freezing volcanoes (ST:Into Darkness)? Fuck that noise, this is the shit that gets me riled up, right here. Nevermind that she didn't lose a finger or an eye in the process of stuffing him in a cage (cat DMV).

/end rant ;D

Ha! Absolutely- cripes, the movie didn't really need a xenomorph. The bloodbath Mr.Jones could have laid down on Ripley for trying to get him in that little bin would have been more gore-porn than horror, though.

A ship the size of a small town, and you decide to rescue a cat before either a giant phallic demon finds you, or the ship explodes... but because I AM a cat person, and because it totally flies in the face of the horror convention of killing an animal to prove how totally cereal the situation is, I totally applauded her decision!

 

[Fox12]

I just ignore the movies after 3

though if Alien isolation is as good as it could (or should) be then that would be awesome

You mean after two. The idiocy started with three, all due respect to Fincher, who is a fantastic director.

I'd welcome another Alien film, so long as it was the hypothetical series reboot speculated about by James Cameron and Ridley Scott before the studio decided to go with AvP instead. There's nothing wrong with the IP itself. There are still a number of ways you could build an interesting story around the Xenomorphs.

I'm legitimately curious how the film would turn out with two ego maniacs in charge at the same time. I'm not sure any film could withstand that level of narcissism. It would be fun to see the insanity on screen though.

Still, better to have left the series alone after the first film. It didn't need a sequel.

 

[R0guy]

Ha! Absolutely- cripes, the movie didn't really need a xenomorph. The bloodbath Mr.Jones could have laid down on Ripley for trying to get him in that little bin would have been more gore-porn than horror, though.

Hehe yeah, a 2 hour long version of the infamous "Razor Wire Maze" scene from the movie "Saw" comes to mind (If you don't know what I mean, it's on youtube, I'm not sure I can link it here because it's pretty violent, obviously xD).

A ship the size of a small town, and you decide to rescue a cat before either a giant phallic demon finds you, or the ship explodes... but because I AM a cat person, and because it totally flies in the face of the horror convention of killing an animal to prove how totally cereal the situation is, I totally applauded her decision!

Yup and that also makes a good point about things making sense because we want them too. Which I think everyone here, including me, is guilty of. Oh Alien <3, you and your terrible cat-actor, he was totally phoning in his performance. He could have at least stopped purring or licking his lips from the treats he was given off-screen.

As for me and Prometheus, I think a Brazilian director I like summed it best when he said in a interview:

-"The music is 50% of a movie, the acting is the other 50% of a movie and so are the special effects, the editing, the directing, the script..."
-"But that adds up to 300%..."
-"Not if you mess one of those things up it isn't, then your movie is 50% of what it could have been!"

And that 50% thing for me was Prometheus' script. I tried to like it really hard, I mean, everything else is stellar in it (particularly the atmosphere and the actors) but I just can't, and I know that sounds unfair. It's a 5 out of 10 movie for me and there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[DirgeNovak]

I just ignore the movies after 3

though if Alien isolation is as good as it could (or should) be then that would be awesome

You mean after two. The idiocy started with three, all due respect to Fincher, who is a fantastic director.

I'd welcome another Alien film, so long as it was the hypothetical series reboot speculated about by James Cameron and Ridley Scott before the studio decided to go with AvP instead. There's nothing wrong with the IP itself. There are still a number of ways you could build an interesting story around the Xenomorphs.

I don't understand the hate for Alien 3. I thought it was fantastic. It had interesting characters, good horror, good action, a great arc for Ripley and it was beautifully shot. I watched the first three movies for the first time, back to back, a couple months ago and I was thoroughly satisfied.

 

[Laughing Man]

I've seen it. But the "stain on his lungs"....I mean, he's the worst flippin' science officer in the world if he can't figure out something is alive in there, and if it's true that Ash does know about it and is hiding it from the rest of the crew, then it goes back to the medical data within Mother, which Dallas has access to and either didn't read or read a flasified version of the data. Either way, the entire thing in retrospect is problematic.

Some things to point out, firstly yes he is a science officer but the ship is a commercial mining vessel he may be a geologist which means he probably knows jack shit about reading medical data. The term is obviously nothing more than a rank and it's never really established what level of 'science' he is an officer of but like I said commercial mining vessel.

Yes Alien 3 has Ripley do a medical scan and the Alien is quite clear however can I add that

1). The tech she was using was part of the Sulako's equipment which is pointed out as being top notch certainly better than you would expect to find on a commercial mining vessel
2). The tech is also 6 decades more advanced i.e the length of time Ripley was in Hypersleep not taking in to account how old the Nostromo and her tech was to being with.

Second why would Dallas go and review data about some Alien on a planet that for all intensive purposes they really knew nothing about? The fact that the corporation had knowledge and may well have had extensive info in a computer data base doesn't mean that Dallas would have gone looking for the info of his own accord, he's the ships Captain which means that he doesn't do everything himself he assigns the task to the officers beneath him which in this case would have been Ash.

As for the franchise scrub Prometheus and go back give us a better more rounded intro to the Alien franchise. Something gives us more details on how the Alien ship ended up on LV-426. Mind you saying that I am hoping Alien Isolation will be as good as it's claiming to be.

 

[LaoJim]

The problem I've always had with Aliens in games is that in the movies the Xenos are near perfect killing machines, and that's why they are cool. Any game where you are a marine and you are killing hundreds of them feels disappointing to me. I think Dead Space did the right thing by basically copying the Aliens aesthetic but changing the baddies to be more shambling and less deadly.

Actually, we don't have a lot of evidence that the Xenos really are 'perfect' killing machines. The strongest opposition they get in the movies are the marines in Aliens, but they are not good soldiers. That they end up following a civilian is good indication of how worthless they are, especially since her plan is the same one that the dead colonists tried.

I know a lot of characters in the movies seem to think they are unstoppable, but it is never properly explained what they would do against entire armies, citizen militias everywhere, scientists and engineers coming up with more efficient ways to kill them and with the humans having a massive numerical advantage.

That a fair enough point, though what makes the aliens interesting in the films is that they seem to stay one step ahead of the humans, by instinct, evolution or intelligence until practically the end. More specifically in a lot of the games, they have things like you are able to shoot a alien at near point blank range and not suffer from acid burns or you are able to melee the alien away from you for a few seconds (often repeatedly). Basically in order to make the games playable the xenomorphs end up feeling a lot less dangerous than they do in Aliens, principally to make the games playable at less than Dark Souls difficulty.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The problem I've always had with Aliens in games is that in the movies the Xenos are near perfect killing machines, and that's why they are cool. Any game where you are a marine and you are killing hundreds of them feels disappointing to me. I think Dead Space did the right thing by basically copying the Aliens aesthetic but changing the baddies to be more shambling and less deadly.

Actually, we don't have a lot of evidence that the Xenos really are 'perfect' killing machines. The strongest opposition they get in the movies are the marines in Aliens, but they are not good soldiers. That they end up following a civilian is good indication of how worthless they are, especially since her plan is the same one that the dead colonists tried.

I know a lot of characters in the movies seem to think they are unstoppable, but it is never properly explained what they would do against entire armies, citizen militias everywhere, scientists and engineers coming up with more efficient ways to kill them and with the humans having a massive numerical advantage.

That a fair enough point, though what makes the aliens interesting in the films is that they seem to stay one step ahead of the humans, by instinct, evolution or intelligence until practically the end. More specifically in a lot of the games, they have things like you are able to shoot a alien at near point blank range and not suffer from acid burns or you are able to melee the alien away from you for a few seconds (often repeatedly). Basically in order to make the games playable the xenomorphs end up feeling a lot less dangerous than they do in Aliens, principally to make the games playable at less than Dark Souls difficulty.

Imagine an Aliens game where every time you shoot a xenomorph there's a random number generator that determines the chance that a single drop of acid blood splatters onto your character's face and melts through to his brain.

 

[thiosk]

But I was so looking forward to the Aliens musical. :/

aliens on ice can't be cancelled!

 

[Thaluikhain]

I've consistently said that AVP Requiem is without a doubt the absolute worst major studio picture I've seen in the last 15 years, and maybe ever. It's irredeemable in every sense of the word. It's the science fiction/action version of "The Day The Clown Cried" (okay I've never seen it, but still...). I'd watch Highlander 2 and Battlefield Earth back to back with a Catwoman chaser before I even thought about letting that movie near my blu-ray player.

Catwoman wasn't that bad. You seen Green Lantern, though? Bleh...

Actually, we don't have a lot of evidence that the Xenos really are 'perfect' killing machines. The strongest opposition they get in the movies are the marines in Aliens, but they are not good soldiers. That they end up following a civilian is good indication of how worthless they are, especially since her plan is the same one that the dead colonists tried.

I know a lot of characters in the movies seem to think they are unstoppable, but it is never properly explained what they would do against entire armies, citizen militias everywhere, scientists and engineers coming up with more efficient ways to kill them and with the humans having a massive numerical advantage.

This. The only reason they were scary in Aliens was that there were zillions of them.

Once the Marines start actually fighting back, the aliens get slaughtered. They mostly seemed to be hoping that the marines ran out of bullets before the aliens ran out of aliens.

If the marines weren't rubbish and few in number, things would have been different. If the aliens hadn't chosen the heat exchangers to hide in, things would have been different. If the first marine they attacked didn't spray others with their flamethrower when they got killed, including the one holding all their ammo, things would have been different. If the dropship hadn't been sitting round with the ramp down and unguarded, things would have been different. If the dropship crashed somewhere not on the APC with all the equipment, things would have been different.

For that matter, once the first guy had been face huggered, did the alien that came out drive back to the derelict spaceship and collect a zillion more eggs and give the queen a ride in or something?

 

[Grumman]

I don't understand the hate for Alien 3. I thought it was fantastic. It had interesting characters, good horror, good action, a great arc for Ripley and it was beautifully shot. I watched the first three movies for the first time, back to back, a couple months ago and I was thoroughly satisfied.

Alien 3 was almost a great movie, but it was terrible for the series. Alien works well as its own story, and Aliens is a good follow-up that gives Ripley closure about what happened on the planet. Then Alien3 ruins all that in the first few minutes. I don't mind having more stories in the Aliens universe, but Ripley's story should have ended with her riding off into the sunset with Hicks and Newt at the end of Aliens.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I don't understand the hate for Alien 3. I thought it was fantastic. It had interesting characters, good horror, good action, a great arc for Ripley and it was beautifully shot. I watched the first three movies for the first time, back to back, a couple months ago and I was thoroughly satisfied.

Alien 3 was almost a great movie, but it was terrible for the series. Alien works well as its own story, and Aliens is a good follow-up that gives Ripley closure about what happened on the planet. Then Alien3 ruins all that in the first few minutes. I don't mind having more stories in the Aliens universe, but Ripley's story should have ended with her riding off into the sunset with Hicks and Newt at the end of Aliens.

Adding to this, it's very hard to sympathize with the characters in Alien 3. With the exception of Ripley they're all criminals, mostly murderers and rapists, just the worst people. In that scenario I'm almost rooting for the xenomorph, which takes a shitload of tension out of the movie. It's difficult to make an engaging horror movie when you feel like most of the characters are getting fucked by karma.