The Alien Franchise Needs to End

[Casual Shinji]

I should probably state that I liked Alien better than Prometheus up front, before I continue. It's just a better story. Nonetheless...

1)in Alien, the fact that they were wandering around like that in the first place was careless anyways, especially seeing as how they struggled to move about in those suits. Not a good getup for spelunking, at any rate. Besides, he did in fact walk over to the pulsing egg thing after he fell, and, well, actually shoved his face into a creepy WTF thing, right? And 2), while the quarantine / emotional debacle was way better than a robot infecting someone with a WMD, it still doesn't change the fact that a rather obvious and critical mistake was made. However 3), in Alien, yes, they never removed their helmets in a silly place... I guess there is no real parallel with Alien to Prometheus on this count, because the bulk of Alien takes place in the Nostromo, not the Engineer craft. So... point conceded.

I just think that people are wearing blinders if they think that stupid mistakes don't happen in the 'classics'- stupid decisions are a staple of horror. Was this one harder to believe than most? Maybe. But I still enjoyed it.

I think the arguement there can be made that the crew of the Nostromo are simple truckers and the crew of the Prometheus are trained scientists. Alien was also a way more focused experience while Prometheus just kind of flops around on the floor at an attempt to find its feet. Because of this the mistakes it makes stand out even more prominent.

Now I kind of like Prometheus, but when you think about it it's a really superfluous movie. Everything it tries to do has been done better by Alien, right down to the android subplot.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

It's still got a place in my heart. I guess I'm just a sucker for chest busters.

The bad elements of the Alien Franchise need to end but I think there is potential for more stories in its universe.

*shrug*

The market can probably stand one more Alien film but Hollywood is going to demand a hit. They might even thrust James Cameron back into it with money. Who knows.

 

[EiMitch]

Short of something like that, where there is little if any human involvement, I agree with your idea. Alien: Isolation? Already been done. A good version of Colonial Marines? Already been done. An action film involving the xenomorphs pitted against humans? Done three times now. I can't think of much that the franchise can do without stripping out humans.

Um, about Isolation: did you mean its been done in the Alien franchise in general, or in an Alien game? If you meant the former, the devs weren't exactly hiding that. They stated that they were trying to make the game feel like the first film. But if you meant the later, could you please specify which game Isolation is aping? I know of no other horror-oriented game in the franchise. I would love to be pointed towards one I've missed.

The problem I've always had with Aliens in games is that in the movies the Xenos are near perfect killing machines, and that's why they are cool. Any game where you are a marine and you are killing hundreds of them feels disappointing to me.

Well, that just happens to be why I'm hoping Alien: Isolation isn't a pile of crap sold on lies like Colonial Marines. It has a single xenomorph which you cannot kill. Instead, you have to outwit and evade it. And that won't be easy if the Alien's AI is half as good as the hype claims.

As for the main point of this topic, Alien: Isolation proves (or at least what it promises to be) that there is still something the Alien franchise is still good for. At least one bit of untapped potential. Because a horror movie doesn't provide the same experience as a horror game.

Now please xeno-deity, I pray let Isolation not suck. I offer my copy of Alien 3 for SNES as a sacrifice. (and good riddance)

 

[the December King]

I should probably state that I liked Alien better than Prometheus up front, before I continue. It's just a better story. Nonetheless...

1)in Alien, the fact that they were wandering around like that in the first place was careless anyways, especially seeing as how they struggled to move about in those suits. Not a good getup for spelunking, at any rate. Besides, he did in fact walk over to the pulsing egg thing after he fell, and, well, actually shoved his face into a creepy WTF thing, right? And 2), while the quarantine / emotional debacle was way better than a robot infecting someone with a WMD, it still doesn't change the fact that a rather obvious and critical mistake was made. However 3), in Alien, yes, they never removed their helmets in a silly place... I guess there is no real parallel with Alien to Prometheus on this count, because the bulk of Alien takes place in the Nostromo, not the Engineer craft. So... point conceded.

I just think that people are wearing blinders if they think that stupid mistakes don't happen in the 'classics'- stupid decisions are a staple of horror. Was this one harder to believe than most? Maybe. But I still enjoyed it.

I think the arguement there can be made that the crew of the Nostromo are simple truckers and the crew of the Prometheus are trained scientists. Alien was also a way more focused experience while Prometheus just kind of flops around on the floor at an attempt to find its feet. Because of this the mistakes it makes stand out even more prominent.

Now I kind of like Prometheus, but when you think about it it's a really superfluous movie. Everything it tries to do has been done better by Alien, right down to the android subplot.

I guess they could be seen as truckers, sure. Exceptionally well trained, mind you- they still were astronauts, and had a science advisor on board, etc. But yeah, it is a good point.

Again, I'm not saying Prometheus is the better movie- as we have seen, since sequels (even if not necessarily a sequel, per se) often fall into repetition, it is at best, imitative.

 

[lechat]

Alien, Aliens, and to a lesser extent, Alien 3, pretty much covered everything you could feasibly do with the Xenomorph without falling into repetition. Anything else is just going to retread old ground, and has been for years now. Take a look at any Aliens FPS, even the good AVP games. The marine sections literally just play out like a Best Of montage from the films.

Aliens 3 was reportedly going to be a movie with the xenomorphs escaping and breeding on earth creating an apocalypse scenario. I imagine it as sort of a disaster movie (the first aliens films was horror, the second was action, changing genres seems to work). If they do this then I'd be interested in it. As you say, the basic one/some/many Aliens on a spaceship/station is pretty much played out.

only guy in here who got it.

The movie is called Aliens: Apocalypse
world war Z has pretty much already beaten them to it but imagine the world is completely over run with xenomorphs, in a last ditch effort to save humanity the Americans (go team America?!!??) nuke the shit out of them except.... xenomorphs.
Aliens still survive so a rag tag team of soldiers and the cute kid they find along the way, the only one who knows the location of the nest (cliche heart string pull), travel to the depths of the xeno queen lair located in..... ummm.... central railway station? madison square garden? central park? to finally put a stop to the alien out break for good.
Also the predators show up at the end as well or something.

I'm sure most of you here don't appreciate a good sceenplay when you see one but that right there is an Emmy award winner.


capture cliff hanger. damn straight cliff hanger capture.

 

[babinro]

No franchise ever needs to end.

If you're personally tired of new content related to a franchise you love then simply STOP exposing yourself to it. With all the terrible Star Wars stuff that has come out since the original trilogy I can still find hidden gems that are great. I really enjoyed certain aspects of Ep 1-3. The Clone Wars cartoon has some really great episodes. KOTOR was a fantastic game and created a great world in the franchise. I'm sure Episode 7 on will have at least a few positive elements to them as well.

The point is...even if you absolutely loathed everything Star Wars from Episode 6 and on...that shouldn't impact your love for the original 2 movies. Simply accept that you are personally done with the franchise and move on. No harm done.

 

[the December King]

This. The only reason they were scary in Aliens was that there were zillions of them.

Once the Marines start actually fighting back, the aliens get slaughtered. They mostly seemed to be hoping that the marines ran out of bullets before the aliens ran out of aliens.

If the marines weren't rubbish and few in number, things would have been different. If the aliens hadn't chosen the heat exchangers to hide in, things would have been different. If the first marine they attacked didn't spray others with their flamethrower when they got killed, including the one holding all their ammo, things would have been different. If the dropship hadn't been sitting round with the ramp down and unguarded, things would have been different. If the dropship crashed somewhere not on the APC with all the equipment, things would have been different.

For that matter, once the first guy had been face huggered, did the alien that came out drive back to the derelict spaceship and collect a zillion more eggs and give the queen a ride in or something?

Yeah, I agree- that's why I felt like Alien was a horror film, but Aliens was more an action film. When you add in the definite possibility of matching aggression with aggression, or being able to confront your attackers like this, it always shifts the genre for me. The terror of the aliens feels supplanted in part by the fact that they become the 'enemy' more than the 'monster'. I mean, its still horror, but the Alien was better as a shadowy stalker, and in Aliens became more of an opposing army of Starship-Trooper style "millit-ants".

Acid-Based Terrorists.

Mantis Extremists.

I'm done.

EDIT: Oh! Damnit, I had something with Gamergate, but lost it. Nevermind.

 

[Thaluikhain]

only guy in here who got it.

The movie is called Aliens: Apocalypse
world war Z has pretty much already beaten them to it but imagine the world is completely over run with xenomorphs, in a last ditch effort to save humanity the Americans (go team America?!!??) nuke the shit out of them except.... xenomorphs.
Aliens still survive so a rag tag team of soldiers and the cute kid they find along the way, the only one who knows the location of the nest (cliche heart string pull), travel to the depths of the xeno queen lair located in..... ummm.... central railway station? madison square garden? central park? to finally put a stop to the alien out break for good.
Also the predators show up at the end as well or something.

I'm sure most of you here don't appreciate a good sceenplay when you see one but that right there is an Emmy award winner.


capture cliff hanger. damn straight cliff hanger capture.

Oh, and the heroes are all teenagers with attitude, played by people in their 30s, who speak in nothing but painfully unfunny quips?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Prometheus, the AVP movies and Colonial Marines are awful, but I don't particularly associate them with my idea of "the Alien franchise", which to me begins with Alien and ends with Alien: Resurrection, if that was its name.

 

[Verlander]

Disagree, but I think it needs to improve. I think it's one of those IPs that might work better in the spin off realms of comics and fanfiction than it does at the hands of creators who have to answer to studios.

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

I've seen it. But the "stain on his lungs"....I mean, he's the worst flippin' science officer in the world if he can't figure out something is alive in there

Well we can't do it now. I could have a tapeworm in my intestines for all I know. We both have microbes insides of us, though. We know this, but we don't see them with any sort of scan like those they performed in Alien. Even ultrasounds really don't bring up much, and ultrasounds are generally less preferrable to, say, an MRI. Doctors rarely perform an ultrasound unless they think there is a foreign physical object in there, and every inclination I remember from Alien is that they saw the facehugger as a parasite, not a pollination device.

I get your point regarding the parasite/pollination, but I just cannot imagine a scenario where a scientist looks an X-ray/scan of a person who has been in physical content with an alien life form, sees an abnormality, and simply says "Huh" and shrugs his or her shoulders. Just doesn't seem reasonable to me, especially when the patient is in critical condition. And I can't imagine the crew just sitting there and accepting Ash's answer. They're ready to cut the facehugger off of Kane, and yet....they're not going to investigate the stain on his lungs?

Also, they DID perform a scan of Kane during the film at some point, though I'm not sure if it's in the theatrical version or director's cut. It is, however, in this excellent Prometheus-style Alien trailer at the 00:29 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ6SUTI1j9M

As for Hadley's Hope, I know that has been implied, and it would certainly help explain a lot, but there's little canonical evidence to show that's actually true. First, recall that in the extended version, Newt's parents are the first members of the colony to find the ship, and there's no site of any WY personnel or research stations nearby. Second, Burke admits, when confronted by Ripley, that he ordered them to check out the ship -- well after the colony and atmosphere processor has already been built and populated. Why did Burke and the company wait until that point? And why stock Hadley's Hope with colonists and surveyers and salvage teams instead of, say, scienists and researchers? There's really nothing that would indicate that the company found the beacon first and THEN decided to build the colony and atmosphere processor, which if you recall has "a substantial dollar value attached to it."

Simple, Hadley's Hope citizens are test subjects. I mean, remember Burke, attempting to use Ripley and Newt to smuggle xenomorphs in? In fact, when Colonial Marines landed, I suggested that a better way to basically retcon the gap between Aliens and Alien 3 was that WeyYu deliberately sent Ripley and Newt, with a facehugger on board, to a prison colony with a small population that absolutely nobody would miss, and when WeyYu would arrive, it'd be an infested hive, which WeyYu could use for any number of things, such as xenomorph behavior observation.

Like I said, this is still the best explanation for all of this, but it still doesn't quite add up. It just seems like a terrible amount of time, money, effort and subterfuge to conceal something that people don't even know about. If anything, building a colony with that kind of investment is going to attract a lot more attention and scrutiny outside the company than, say, kidnapping a dozen or so people and using them as teest subjects, ala Alien: Resurrection. Plus, why send a platoon of Colonial Marines to Acheron to investigate anything if that's the express purpose of setting the colony up in the first place?

 

[happyninja42]

But I was so looking forward to the Aliens musical. :/

"Aliens Take Manhattan", coming soon. It's inevitable.

I hear Bono and The Edge are already working on the lyrics and music with some help from Andrew Lloyd Webber.

I'm now picturing West Side Story but with different xenomorphs, spitting acid at each other in choreographed ways, idly melting random passers-by.

That might actually be a kind of musical that I could enjoy watching.

 

[DoPo]

But I was so looking forward to the Aliens musical. :/

"Aliens Take Manhattan", coming soon. It's inevitable.

I hear Bono and The Edge are already working on the lyrics and music with some help from Andrew Lloyd Webber.

I'm now picturing West Side Story but with different xenomorphs, spitting acid at each other in choreographed ways, idly melting random passers-by.

That might actually be a kind of musical that I could enjoy watching.

It's actually quite interesting that the joke has been done some 27 years ago