The Altar of Valve

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KazeAizen

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So I've pretty much surmised that a majority of people on this particular site or at least frequent it are a few things. 1) PC gamers. 2) Atheists. 3) Valve Worshipers. Ok ok ok please don't beat me with a stick I promise I am going somewhere with this and its not all condescending. Like I said I'm just ball parking saying that a majority are one of these three things here. It can't be all because hey I'm a Catholic and I know one J-E-F-F-E-R-S is a devout Nintendo fan. Jeffers if you read this I don't mind what you do just try to stay out of too much trouble. :) Anyway back on point. I'm not going to make this into a whole religion/gaming/net culture discussion.

So I bet you are asking why do I bring those things up? I bring them up mostly because of all the recent Valve announcements. How they are making Steam Machines, with the Steam OS, and some kind of 3rd reveal I don't know about is all about of the Half-Life 3 conspiracy. Which in all honesty is one of the few net jokes that doesn't really cease to be funny for me. Now I don't know how this stuff is supposed to work. I haven't looked as much into it as I should but what I do know is this. I can pretty much guarantee PC gamers everywhere are going nuts with this stuff being announced. Saying that this is the future of gaming and other stuff like that. To me this only means that we might actually have a 4th legitimate competitor in the hardware department or a replacement for Microsoft by most people's accounts people are convinced that they are going to fall hard on the Xbone. Personally I want to see that happen. The PR surrounding that thing pissed me off like Michael Vick's dog fighting. That man should not have a career after what he did. Yeah I'm that pissed off at Microsoft.

Still do you think Valve may be being overpraised for this? I mean I like them don't get me wrong but don't you think that they might be getting just a bit too much praise at the moment? I mean I see next to no truly negative feedback about their unconventional controller where as when a certain game company tried making an unconventional controller last gen. it was leaning on the negative side with "core" gamers and positive side with the "casual" gamers. It feels like to the internet they can do no wrong. When in my opinion Left 4 Dead and Half-Life were wrong steps. Yeah I played Half-Life 2. It was a slog. Hard: Yes, which is not wrong but it wasn't that fun kind of hard. Just the annoying tear your eyes out kind. The vehicle sections were annoying. The controls awkward and the sections just ran on. Also that damn physics puzzled popped up too many freaking times. Physics can be more fun then a teeter totter.

Back on point. What I am really trying to say is that half the time on this site I don't feel like I belong. I like a lot of the content on here especially between Yahtzee and Moviebob but the community itself seems to accidentally alienate me. I'm 22 and just now daring myself to try and build a gaming PC but I have not converted. I'm a console gamer at heart. I'm just tired of League of Legends freezing on me. I can't operate Linux and yet I want to design games. Some people make it seem like you have to know Linux inherently if you want to have any hope of making games. Then you bring religion into the mix and good god does that open a can of worms. I rarely rarely rarely meet genuine Christians/Muslims/or any form of religious follower that legitimately believes that stuff on this site or others.

Now this is the part where I'm going to sound like a real dick though. There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible. Calling me a child and telling me to go onto my fairy tails or enjoy living in my happy made up dream land. I often want to retort what helps them get through life and not worry about death? Because for me the idea that every single thing I am is just gone in an instant and goes nowhere is the most sad, unappealing. and pathetic existence I can think of. Here is the problem though with you guys that judge us so harshly. You rarely take the higher road. I know that "my people" can be dicks and rude, and hurtful and believe me when I say I wish I could straighten them out myself, but when they show up I never see you guys take the high road. I always see you try to outsmart or poke holes in their logic or just generally try to degrade them so that they are reduced to nothing and you feel good about yourself. Is that really what makes you feel good? Putting "religious whack jobs" in their place?

In conclusion I do know that this is more or less gonna piss people off. Still I think that sometimes people just need to be blunt. I hope I was as blunt as a baseball bat. What I hope to do with threads like this is to get people to slowly start changing the landscape of the internet. As awesome as it is it feels like walking through the land of Mordor. To some people more then others. Just remember that before the next time you try and put someone down on the youtube comments section.
 

Maximum Bert

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Gotta be honest I have heard very little praise or condemnation about valves announcements its been met by a giant meh by people I know in real life who play PC games predominantly and console gamers I know have mostly not even heard of any plans and by and large dont really care much for valve anyway.

Personally I dont like Valve much but I dont really dislike them as such either. I dont really support Steam on principle so very rarely buy a game there and wont if it is available on GOG regardless of price. That said more competition is always good it will be a bad time if one company dominates all of gaming (another reason I tend not to support steam).
 

skywolfblue

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KazeAizen said:
Still do you think Valve may be being overpraised for this?
Yes. Though I've seen a fair number of people who are skeptical about it in other threads, so you're not alone.

KazeAizen said:
I can't operate Linux and yet I want to design games. Some people make it seem like you have to know Linux inherently if you want to have any hope of making games.
You don't need to operate Linux to design games. Most games are designed, built, and run in Windows. Even valve's steam box won't change that. Though you'll probably need programming skills of some sort, like C++. I'd say to not let the Linux elitists bother you too much.

However, if you are interested in Linux, but want something that's a little more user friendly then having to wrestle with the command line, I'd recommend Linux Mint or Ubuntu both have put in great strides to become more newbie friendly in recent years.

KazeAizen said:
I rarely rarely rarely meet genuine Christians/Muslims/or any form of religious follower that legitimately believes that stuff on this site or others.
I'm a genuine Christian. I'm not always a shining example, but my faith is real. So you aren't alone.

The Internet in general could use a bit more tolerance, for faith, for a lot of things. I hope your post will remind people of that. :)
 

Xan Krieger

Completely insane
Feb 11, 2009
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I'm a PC gamer and I'm a christian but I'm no fan of Valve. Aside from Portal and Portal 2 they haven't made any good games (the portal series however is an amazing series). I tend to focus more on older and proven technologies which is why I usually buy things years after release.
 

Darks63

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I think you might be confusing peoples praise and positive opinion of the steam service for "Valve Worship". As for PC only I don't think that is accurate either.
 

MysticSlayer

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Apr 14, 2013
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KazeAizen said:
Still do you think Valve may be being overpraised for this? I mean I like them don't get me wrong but don't you think that they might be getting just a bit too much praise at the moment? I mean I see next to no truly negative feedback about their unconventional controller where as when a certain game company tried making an unconventional controller last gen. it was leaning on the negative side with "core" gamers and positive side with the "casual" gamers.
Really? I've seen quite a few concerns leveled at the Steam controller. Of course, most of it is positive, but there's negatives out there as well. Just like how the Wii had a lot of positives for it before we really got into it, but there were still dissenters who, arguably, turned out to be right in the end.

Still, you can't really compare the Steam controller to the Wii-mote. For the most part, the Steam controller still follows very similar design methods, but it is giving us a drastically different way of looking at it. The Wii-mote was entirely different. Not to mention, we already have a basic understanding of how the track pads and other oddities of the controller will function, in part because SteamOS will already have a decent library that the controller has been built for. We didn't have that with the Wii-mote and had to wait until developers started using it to see how it would function. Also, it doesn't look like there is a lot of gimmick potential for the Steam controller, and the Wii-mote was used as a gimmick in at least 90% of its games (not an exact figure, but that's what it sure felt like). Finally, the Steam controller can be modified. The Wii-mote was often forced on us in its original format, only made more obnoxious when we were forced to buy an entirely new Wii-mote with Wii-motion Plus just to keep up with some of the games.

Now this is the part where I'm going to sound like a real dick though. There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible. Calling me a child and telling me to go onto my fairy tails or enjoy living in my happy made up dream land. I often want to retort what helps them get through life and not worry about death? Because for me the idea that every single thing I am is just gone in an instant and goes nowhere is the most sad, unappealing. and pathetic existence I can think of. Here is the problem though with you guys that judge us so harshly. You rarely take the higher road. I know that "my people" can be dicks and rude, and hurtful and believe me when I say I wish I could straighten them out myself, but when they show up I never see you guys take the high road. I always see you try to outsmart or poke holes in their logic or just generally try to degrade them so that they are reduced to nothing and you feel good about yourself. Is that really what makes you feel good? Putting "religious whack jobs" in their place?
As a fellow Christian who has interacted with people on both Internet and real life, I can tell you something: People are infinitely more aggressive on the Internet. This goes for the religious and non-religious, regardless of what specific ideology they hold to regarding religion/non-religion. There's no fear of physical harm if they get too aggressive, and the anonymity basically gives them free reign to do whatever they want without receiving too harsh of a repercussion. Basically, the Internet is a place where people who think they know everything have enough anonymity to feign that they know everything and have access to a vast amount of information, both right and wrong, that can "support" their position. In other words, the Internet is an easy place to be a complete pseudo-intellectual jerk no matter which side of the debate you fall on. In communities dominated by a particular group, whether that group be Christian or Muslim or atheist, it can be hard to really bring up the dissenting viewpoints.

For me, I just don't bother going into it, at least if it is obviously meant as a trap for a debate. Some sites are dedicated to it, and those can be OK depending on the rules in place, but a gaming site with rules hardly designed around that kind of debate, it just isn't worth it.
 

Bertylicious

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Apr 10, 2012
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I'm a PC gamer with huge admiration for Valve; their games have become benchmarks against which similar games are judged whilst Steam has set the benchmark for online distribution.

As for the Steam box and SteamOS, well...

Just who is it actually for? Buggered if I know. I can't see it doing well.

In regards to matters of faith and the treatment you may receive I can only point you back at your own words; take the higher road and forgive. That's kind of what being a Christian is about, isn't it? Further discussion on that subject might be better suited to the religious and politics forum.

Unless I have misunderstood the post and in fact people have being saying to you that religious people can't learn Linux?
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
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I get the feeling that the OP was trying to take three or four different topics and tie them together... somehow... but I don't think it worked...

Uhm.

1. If you plan on designing games, you'll need to learn how to program. Linux isn't required, but if you can't learn how to use Linux, my faith in your programming skills is not high.

2. Chalk up another Christian with real faith in his beliefs. I've mentioned them a few times, and even positively reviewed a piece of Christian edutainment on this site, and people don't seem to have a problem with it.

3. The new Steam announcements are all about A. adding alternatives, and B. moving gaming to a more open, user friendly and cheaper platform. It's hard to overpraise them for this.
 

Phrozenflame500

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Dec 26, 2012
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To be frank, I don't think Valve should be getting any praise for something nobody has ever touched yet. Or any hate for that matter. But just try telling people on the internet not to have opinions on things.

Also, I'm intrigued you didn't like Half Life 2 to that extent. I agree 100% with the vehicle part, but I genuinely found the controls really damn good.

About the religion thing, I generally self identify as an apatheist: that is, whether there is a God or not is meaningless to me and I generally scoff at assholes religious or not. But yeah, in general stay away form R&P. It's not a nice place.
 

Pink Gregory

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Jul 30, 2008
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To be honest, for the all talk of the 'Valve Fanboy' tag this forum seems to have picked up, I don't see them.

And let's not argue semantics, you know what I mean by 'fanboy'.
 

BarbaricGoose

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KazeAizen said:
Now this is the part where I'm going to sound like a real dick though. There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible. Calling me a child and telling me to go onto my fairy tails or enjoy living in my happy made up dream land. I often want to retort what helps them get through life and not worry about death? Because for me the idea that every single thing I am is just gone in an instant and goes nowhere is the most sad, unappealing. and pathetic existence I can think of. Here is the problem though with you guys that judge us so harshly. You rarely take the higher road. I know that "my people" can be dicks and rude, and hurtful and believe me when I say I wish I could straighten them out myself, but when they show up I never see you guys take the high road. I always see you try to outsmart or poke holes in their logic or just generally try to degrade them so that they are reduced to nothing and you feel good about yourself. Is that really what makes you feel good? Putting "religious whack jobs" in their place?
Okay, first of all, it's altar--with two As. Alter means to change something. To alter the way something works. Altar means, well, an altar.

Anyway, people who believe in the bible because they're afraid of what might happen if they don't, that bothers me. I'm okay with people who genuinely believe in the bible, honestly. As long as they're not a nut about it, and they don't interfere with other people's lives. But believing in heaven simply because you're afraid of death, that strikes me as cowardice, which I've ZERO respect for. It's not really believing in the bible because you believe it; you're choosing to believe because you don't like the alternatives. It's a lie is what it is; it's saying you believe something when you really don't, isn't it?

If you asked me what helps get me through life, I don't know what I'd tell you. Friends, family, video games, improving myself, being the best person I can be, or just enjoying the limited time I do have? I don't know, but I like my life. I don't believe my existence is pathetic, but I certainly don't believe I'm meant for "Great things," either. Does it have to be so black and white? Can't I just... exist?

I worry about death all the time, although not consciously; it's at the root of all my fears. Cancer? Not scary at all if not for death. But I'm not gonna choose to believe in the bible just because I'm afraid of death. That's bullshit. I wouldn't actually believe in the bible, I'd just be doing some mental gymnastics to convince myself that I had no reason to fear death. Although, I think at the end of the day, I'd still be afraid. No one likes the idea that their life will end. It's not a pleasant thought, and it would be nice to believe in a heaven of some sort. The fact is, though, I don't. And pretending I do isn't gonna change that. If the only reason I'm "Believing" in heaven is so I'll be covered should it turn out that there IS a heaven, wouldn't god... know?

I don't describe myself as Atheist. I'm an agnostic. I truly, truly do not fucking know. And I don't care, really. Maybe there is a god, or gods, who farted this world into existence. Maybe I'll go to hell for not believing. I don't know. I'd like to think that if there is a god that gave me free will, (s)he'd respect the fact that I used the free will (s)he gave me to find my way own in life, be happy, and bring happiness to others.

Maybe this doesn't answer your questions, or question. I'm not too clear on what exactly this thread is about. I cast a wide net, I guess.

And I'm not a PC gamer. I do game on the PC, though. Just as I do on my 360 and PS3.
 

anthony87

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In all my years I've yet to see any of this "Valve worship". Mostly I see people decrying said worship.
 

thiosk

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Sep 18, 2008
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Several things about this post make me want to claw my eyes out, but none are greater than "Altar."

If someone finds the following things true:
1. The present state of AAA gaming is dire
2. Most of the interesting stuff comes out on steam
3. The console makers are more interested in market share and F2P than in cohesive gaming experiences
4. The bible was written by a bunch of desert people for people who live in the desert

then its hard to blame people for this

 

Lieju

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Jan 4, 2009
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KazeAizen said:
Now this is the part where I'm going to sound like a real dick though. There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible. Calling me a child and telling me to go onto my fairy tails or enjoy living in my happy made up dream land. I often want to retort what helps them get through life and not worry about death? Because for me the idea that every single thing I am is just gone in an instant and goes nowhere is the most sad, unappealing. and pathetic existence I can think of. Here is the problem though with you guys that judge us so harshly.

Personally, when I have dealt with 'religious whack jobs' in real life I haven't really said anything, usually because I was scared or creeped out and outnumbered.
Usually I just try to avoid them, even on the net, because quite frankly it makes me depressed.

I'll be honest, I have had a lot of bad experiences with religious people, and they kinda scare me. But I try not to judge them just based on their religion, they might not be anti-science or homophobic.

That being said, I don't think your argument against this hypothetical person really holds up.

If someone calls you an idiot and living in a fantasy, your counter-argument is that it makes you happy? Fair enough and good for you, but it doesn't really disprove the point this rude person was making.

KazeAizen said:
You rarely take the higher road. I know that "my people" can be dicks and rude, and hurtful and believe me when I say I wish I could straighten them out myself, but when they show up I never see you guys take the high road. I always see you try to outsmart or poke holes in their logic or just generally try to degrade them so that they are reduced to nothing and you feel good about yourself. Is that really what makes you feel good? Putting "religious whack jobs" in their place?
That's kinda an Internet-thing, though.
If someone makes claims that others think are factually incorrect, they will argue against that.
If someone is a dick, it's pretty common people are dicks right back, at least those are the most visible. After all, taking the high road might just be not replying.
 

Tom Roberts

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Mar 1, 2010
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If I were to alter the altar, would that get me Altair's Armour? Or simply make me a Blasphemer?
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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KazeAizen said:
So I've pretty much surmised that a majority of people on this particular site or at least frequent it are a few things. 1) PC gamers. 2) Atheists. 3) Valve Worshipers.
You forgot 4) Grammar Nazis. And on that note, your title should be "Altar", not "Alter". :p

OT: You really shouldn't let it bother you that much. It might seem like the site is run by PC gamers, but there's plenty of console gamers around as well. As for the Atheists and such...my suggestion is to stick to the forum that this site is "technically" built around: gaming discussion.

I used to try posting in the Religion and Politics section but, as one of the few Conservatives around here, quickly grew tired of having my inbox flooded with comments with angry people who were more than happy to tell me how wrong I am about things they don't really know anything about...but neither do I, technically, so it's all fair I guess. Point is I don't go in there anymore and prefer to keep it out of sight and out of mind. By sticking with the shows/features that I enjoy and just going into the Gaming Discussion forum I'm able to enjoy this site a lot more than I used to.
 

ZZoMBiE13

Ate My Neighbors
Oct 10, 2007
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If it makes you feel better, I'm a Christian also. I just don't come to a gaming forum to discuss my religious beliefs. Not that there's anything wrong with discussing them openly. I just don't choose to do it here. That's not why I visit a site like this.

The atheists have never been mean to me. They're welcome to try I suppose, but it's not going to change anything.

Christians used to be the majority. Suddenly, that isn't taken as a given anymore. Now we feel like the outsiders sometimes. It's the way of things. If you want to get all introspective, think about the fact that (in the US at least), this is how other religions have felt for hundreds of years. Just believe what you like. It's your life, you're the one who has to live it.

As for Valve... well I really couldn't conceive of a way to care any less about their Steam Machine. I already use Steam and Windows lets me use my graphics programs and everything else I want without having to use a controller that looks like WALL-E's evil step-brother. :p
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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None of the Valve things were interesting to me. Rather have had a Portal 3 - also as good as HL2 was, im not obsessed for a HL3 cos the ending sucked and it was a basic FPS game - even though it had nice backgrounds.