The Altar of Valve

[KeyMaster45]

If I were to alter the altar, would that get me Altair's Armour? Or simply make me a Blasphemer?

No, not a blasphemer maybe a bad interior designer though. I know my grandma's church recently had to replace theirs after someone forgot to put out a candle and it burnt to ash overnight. (wooden altar, brick altar area) The new one they got was made out of marble, or something less flamable, and was supposed to have what we think is the holy spirit shining a beam of light on something, but it just came out looking like the Bat Signal; the parish I'm told has taken to calling it the Bat Altar.

I uh...don't really have anything to add to this conversation beyond that humorous anecdote. I've never been very comfortable talking about religion, and Valve simply has a simley face next to its name in my book of game retailers.

 

[RJ 17]

None of the Valve things were interesting to me. Rather have had a Portal 3 - also as good as HL2 was, im not obsessed for a HL3 cos the ending sucked and it was a basic FPS game - even though it had nice backgrounds.

Hey, at least they're giving us L4D3....because, you know...EVERYONE was dying for that one... >.>

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

None of the Valve things were interesting to me. Rather have had a Portal 3 - also as good as HL2 was, im not obsessed for a HL3 cos the ending sucked and it was a basic FPS game - even though it had nice backgrounds.

Hey, at least they're giving us L4D3....because, you know...EVERYONE was dying for that one... >.>

Agreed. Didnt care about L4D. But the zombies thought they were dying for it.

 

[Zakarath]

Yes, every morning and every night I pray to Valve, asking humbly for their great benevolence in granting us meek subjects their miraculous Steam Sales, and I beg them to grant me patience as I wait for HL3.

 

[Tanakh]

There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible.

TBH I have a very bad first impression of you, mainly because your post is poorly structured in the sense that you go all over the place. Title has a typo and has little to do with the main point, the three paragraphs are also tangencial, You get to the main issue in the fourth after saying "Back on point". Anyway, as a 29 yo PC gamer atheist DotA2 fan:

Still do you think Valve may be being overpraised for this? I mean I like them don't get me wrong but don't you think that they might be getting just a bit too much praise at the moment?

Not really, I have been waiting for an open source game focused OS for around 10 years now and Valve has the skills to pull it right, and as far as I have seen most people are saying "good move, hope they manage to get it right, and if they do it's going to be awesome" which is a sentiment I agree with. Also right now there are one or two threads about steam OS being a terrible idea and one that ask what you think about the controller in which, if i recall right, round 90% of the escapist is cautiously optimistic or cautiously pessimistic (more or less half and half), can't see how this fits into your perception.

I'm 22 and just now daring myself to try and build a gaming PC but I have not converted. I can't operate Linux and yet I want to design games. Some people make it seem like you have to know Linux inherently if you want to have any hope of making games.

Ok... you seem old enough. What do you mean by "can't operate Linux"? Is it the result of a disability? If you are writing this chances are you wouldn't have any problem installing and using Ubuntu Linux if you want, last time i installed it it was as easy as installing/using most software on windows.

And what do you mean by "design games"? Obviously you can't mean lead game designer, mechanics designer then? Level designer? If you want to be a mechanics designer then knowing how to program seems like a must to fiddle with the game source code, if it's level designer I would think your time would be best invested playing with stuff like 3d max and the unreal development kit. At any rate... you are a grown up and the idea seems a bit vague, are you sure you are putting enough work into it? Anyway you don't need linux, like at all, but if you are clumsy enough with computers that using linux is a daunting task this days, humm... maybe you should rethink the area of video games you want to work in?

Then you bring religion into the mix and good god does that open a can of worms. I rarely rarely rarely meet genuine Christians/Muslims/or any form of religious follower that legitimately believes that stuff on this site or others.

Now this is the part where I'm going to sound like a real dick though. There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible. Calling me a child and telling me to go onto my fairy tails or enjoy living in my happy made up dream land. I often want to retort what helps them get through life and not worry about death? Because for me the idea that every single thing I am is just gone in an instant and goes nowhere is the most sad, unappealing. and pathetic existence I can think of. Here is the problem though with you guys that judge us so harshly. You rarely take the higher road. I know that "my people" can be dicks and rude, and hurtful and believe me when I say I wish I could straighten them out myself, but when they show up I never see you guys take the high road. I always see you try to outsmart or poke holes in their logic or just generally try to degrade them so that they are reduced to nothing and you feel good about yourself. Is that really what makes you feel good? Putting "religious whack jobs" in their place?

In conclusion I do know that this is more or less gonna piss people off. Still I think that sometimes people just need to be blunt. I hope I was as blunt as a baseball bat. What I hope to do with threads like this is to get people to slowly start changing the landscape of the internet. As awesome as it is it feels like walking through the land of Mordor. To some people more then others. Just remember that before the next time you try and put someone down on the youtube comments section.

Mhee, just ignore dumb atheist, the ones that think you are inherently more stupid for believing in something while not realizing they are basing his bullshit in faith too. I will tell you a secret, anything regarding god non existence/existence is based on faith, dumb atheist think their belief is based on logic and science, and yeah logical thinking can take you to conclude that the possibility of god's existence is low enough to disregard it, but that last step, the certainty that god is/is not is on blind faith, always been, always will.

To be fair though, nowadays atheist bully people where they are the majority, old day religious people killed/burned any sign of a different way of thinking, so karma's a ***** but it is just small karma. Also, lolololol, "slowly changing the landscape of the internet"... dude, atheism is on the rise and retard atheist trying to impose their beliefs are going to get worse before they get better, but gl with that but I would recommend to change how you take them, not to expect them to change.

As for feeling good, yeah, it makes people feel good to put the religious whack jobs in their place, it reinforces their beliefs and identity, same as tennagers being homophobic or fashion girls rejecting distaste. Personally I just discuss about religion in order to make my and the interlocutor beliefs more self consistent and solid, and to find out if I would have a chance to go to heaven even as a non believer in different religions, so far i am at around 50% admission as an atheist, not bad.

 

[Foolery]

I'm a PC gamer with huge admiration for Valve; their games have become benchmarks against which similar games are judged whilst Steam has set the benchmark for online distribution.

As for the Steam box and SteamOS, well...

Just who is it actually for? Buggered if I know. I can't see it doing well.

Yeah, this is pretty much my take on it as well. I can already hook my PC up to the living room TV. I guess it's a stepping stone for those who want to see what PC gaming is all about with less of the hassle. But honestly, if you're going to get a PC, most will tell to you budget around 1000 bucks, build it yourself or have a friend help, and you'll have something decent that lasts a long time, plus the experience gained.

 

[Hero of Lime]

Well I guess I fit the escapist minority you laid out as well. I am a console and handheld gamer. I am a Christian, and I like Valve only as an entity and less for the games. On your topic about PC gaming, it is true that PC is King amongst the users of the forums, but there are only a few people who would call you a "filthy casual" for playing on consoles.

Besides, we all have biases that will make us defend certain groups, companies, game franchises etc. I would defend Nintendo more than Sony or Microsoft because I like Nintendo more. It's the same case as Steam vs. Origin for example. If they were to both hypothetically implement similar negative policies at the same time, EA would get hammered a lot harder than Valve on these forums, that's just the way the general consensus is.

As for faith, granted I don't venture into the Religion and politics section, but they can't be such volatile places without a bunch of strong arguing going on to give it the reputation it has. Plus, a large part of the Escapist community are atheists, but like most atheists, they aren't overly combative on religious issues, they will tell you they don't believe in God and just go about their day. Now there are some anti-theists running around the site, but they are a minority for sure.

 

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I'm not a PC gamer, I am an Atheist, and I want nothing to do with Valve. I got over TF2 years ago, I was never taken with Halflife 2, and while Portal was fun, Portal 2 was (combustible lemons excluded) a total bore.

I mainly came in to see how many people would scream ITS SPELLED ALTAR!!! and I was not disappointed.

Also, you can be an Atheist, and still practice Christ's teachings. Doing so would actually make you MORE of a Christian than many who commit truly blasphemous and utterly unjustifiable acts of cruelty, murder, intolerance, and plutocracy in God's name. Faith is not a shield against sin. Saying you believe, and then living your life in a mockery of that belief is not a substitute for virtue.

If the only reason you help the needy is for the tax write off, and the only reason you go to church is guilt instead of reverence you should probably not even bother.

At that point the only thing separating you from an Atheist, is that I have my weekends free.

That being said, this thread might belong in the R&P section so that we all don't get modded for sadly being on topic due to this thread having VERY little to do with gaming at this point.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

So I've pretty much surmised that a majority of people on this particular site or at least frequent it are a few things. 1) PC gamers. 2) Atheists. 3) Valve Worshipers

.... Wut? I never see religion brought up on these forums. I think your problem is that you're using the Religion and politics board. Those things only exists to filter out flame threads without having to say "no you can't post that here."

Still do you think Valve may be being overpraised for this?

In short, no. Its kinda a big deal. Gabe Newell himself is actually a former Microsoft employee and he helped put Windows on more computers than MDos. How? More people had Doom installed on their computers than copies of Windows. Thus nobody cared about the better interface cause Dos ran Doom and Windows didn't. So Gabe offered to port Doom for free and ID accepted and sure enough, Windows took off.

People will move to an OS if it has games and a lot people like myself think that Microsoft's time is up. They clearly stopped giving a shit about what people want a long time ago. Look at Windows 8.1. People wanted the start menu back so what did Microsoft do? They added back the button... And all it is, is a fucking shortcut to app menu people hate (If you haven't used it, the Win key did the same thing). Linux can do the same things Windows can do FOR FREE and with complete user control so why do we pay a $100 for a copy of Windows? Cause its where the compatibility is at. If we get games onto Linux, then we can use Linux instead. Android, which is Linux, is already the most popular mobile OS and its free and open source and has all the apps. We don't need Windows anymore

As for the controller, about half the posts about it are people bitching so I don't know what you're talking about. As for the Wiimote you so subtly disguised, the Wii's motion controls are a result of Nintendo throwing something into the market that wasn't about demand but rather testing the waters to see if it was something people wanted. Shock, it didn't work out too well for core gamers. The Wiimote wasn't even sensitive enough be used in the way Nintendo over hyped so all it did was replace the 4 face buttons with different waggles which just a distraction during gameplay. The SteamOS and its controller on the other hand was designed to fill a need which is the need for an input device that's as sensitive as mouse but can used from a chair and the OS is designed to help gaming from a tv using said controller

And no, I am not pc master race. I think the platform is too flawed for me. Windows sucks on a tv and requires too much set up and Steam's big picture mode is just a band aid. Hopefully the SteamOS will fix these things. And I'm not a huge Valve fan either. I didn't like Half-Life 2 and don't like how Steam sort of encouraged the ridiculous drm that's all over pc gaming. I still use them and respect them as a company because they take their users very seriously, I like the direction they seem to be heading, they don't have a huge history of releasing shit other than making Steam mandatory for playing Half-Life

And for religion, I'm Catholic too but I guess I've just been on the Internet enough to know that Internet atheists are never to be taken seriously. Case and point [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKULc8W7lM]

 

[KazeAizen]

*snip*.

Yeah. It was poorly structured in retrospect. I think I have this bad habit of going off on tangents without even realizing it sometimes. So yeah I had a few ideas all floating around in my brain and all off them ended up in the post in a big mess.

Maybe its because I don't PC game that much and am not around that crowd as much but when I am around them it seems like to them Valve can do no wrong. As for the Steam OS I suppose it is a good idea. I suppose one thing that does escape me is this open source thing. Again probably due to me not being a PC gamer but I've never really learned what the implications of such a thing means or why its such a big deal. I guess if it means absolutely no DRM then that I can understand and actually get behind.

The Linux thing was more or less frightening to me. I have had maybe one or two friends who use it as their main OS and they showed me. I might as well have been looking at some arcane tome from a Lord of the Rings movie. They never mentioned an easier or more user friendly version of it nor had I actually heard of one. Until now.

The Game Design thing is really a work in progress. I do know that I want to model or level design. I've had an exceptional knack for environments from day 1. I do poke around in Maya but I do have aspirations of getting a team together and panning out into a company. I know that's a long way off though or maybe never.

The whole religion tangent I probably should never have gone on. That just stews in my brain constantly though and there is always something that just fires wrong synapse in my brain to make me not keep my mouth shut. The internet dick wad theory will always hold but a sponge can only hold so much or a wall can only take so much abuse before it falls.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Not really sure where the topic is going, but hey let's run down some things:
- Youtube comments are the pinnacle of human evil
- if you throw your beliefs out there people will always challenge them, this in most religions is sacrilege so do yourself a favor and don't tumble down that rabbit hole
- Valve worship is just a long running joke, but unreasonable fanboys do exist (same thing goes for every company)
- wider technical knowledge will limit you as a dev, it isn't about linux it's about being willing to learn new tech that gives new possibilities to your creations, ignorance might be bliss but it is not productive

 

[Guy from the 80's]

I'm a fan of Valve because of STEAM. STEAM is to me what xbox live is to the xbox. I buy all my games through STEAM and I love having all of them in one library and one common folder. I love the weekend sales and in general its the best platform form for me as all the games I buy are digital download.

All hail STEAM!

 

[GundamSentinel]

PC gamers? There are quite a few around here yes. I'm glad to say though that I see the term 'PC master race' used unironically less and less. Me, I'm a hybrid PC/console gamer. I like PC, but I see some advantages in using a console.

Valve worshippers? Again, there are some, but just as many people who are very critical of Valve. Me, I just like Steam and don't care about anything else Valve comes up with.

The only religious people I dislike are the people who bother you with it. You know, people petitioning to ban evolution from schools just because they don't think it's real. Or people killing other people over religious squabbles. Or people trying to convert others. If someone comes at my door telling me how right it is to believe in God, I'll not hesitate to tell them how wrong it can be as well. And in that case I don't mind being a little rude. Don't bother me with it!

I respect the morality lessons that can be found in the Bible (well, not the Old Testament, that's just a spiteful God coming down on people for things they're not to blame for). As the son of a pastor and having gone to a Catholic school, I think I can safely say I know more about the Bible than most believers. But I really do not think that religion is the source of that morality. You don't have to believe in a God to be a good person, nor does believing in God make you a good person.

If believing gives you comfort, that's good. If you want to believe in a soul and a life after death, fine. All power to you. But I don't have patience for people claiming every bit of a religious book as real historical work that is scientifically accurate.

 

[Tanakh]

Maybe its because I don't PC game that much and am not around that crowd as much but when I am around them it seems like to them Valve can do no wrong. As for the Steam OS I suppose it is a good idea. I suppose one thing that does escape me is this open source thing. Again probably due to me not being a PC gamer but I've never really learned what the implications of such a thing means or why its such a big deal. I guess if it means absolutely no DRM then that I can understand and actually get behind.

The Linux thing was more or less frightening to me. I have had maybe one or two friends who use it as their main OS and they showed me. I might as well have been looking at some arcane tome from a Lord of the Rings movie. They never mentioned an easier or more user friendly version of it nor had I actually heard of one. Until now.

The Game Design thing is really a work in progress. I do know that I want to model or level design. I've had an exceptional knack for environments from day 1. I do poke around in Maya but I do have aspirations of getting a team together and panning out into a company. I know that's a long way off though or maybe never.

The whole religion tangent I probably should never have gone on. That just stews in my brain constantly though and there is always something that just fires wrong synapse in my brain to make me not keep my mouth shut. The internet dick wad theory will always hold but a sponge can only hold so much or a wall can only take so much abuse before it falls.

Yeah... misquote? Anyway:

- The steamOS is not exactly about no DRM... or at least not where it matters. AFAIK the operative system itself will be free and totally open to modding, no DRM and shit, BUT the games will be on Steam and using the standard Steam DRM.
Why am I excited then? Several reasons:

* It will be modular as any Linux, ie it will run exactly what I want it to run.

* It will be free.

* It will be devoted specifically to videogames. Right now consoles can do cool shit with poor hardware in no small part due their focus on the task as opposed to windows who needs to cover a very large spectrum of needs.

* It will be toyed with by the videogame devs, the users, the hardware manufacturers to fit exactly what they need. This is one of the strongest boons of Linux, the community evolve it fast, Need an ez distro? Go Ubuntu, want performance? Arch or Gentoo, need it for tablets/smartphones? Android, rock solid servers? Debian; now we finally get the gaming focused Linux, and for that i am hyped as hell, though I think it will need 2-3 years to mature after launch TBH.

That said, I think that the first release will underwhelm the community and that is a pointless product for many videogamers. I expect to be great in 2017-2018 and totally change the videogames, not before.

- Humm... well, some linux might be hard. Ubuntu is however as easy as windows, and if you EVER run into something you don't know how to do, then google the problem, chances are it is already solved in one of the thousand of threads designed to help newbies with Ubuntu, and if not just ask on an Ubuntu forum, people are super nice there. That said, I see zero benefit for you in learning it atm outside the benefit inherent in learning something new.

- You like Maya? GREAT. I think 3dsmax is way more standard in the industry and would suggest you to learn it, but what I really think would be amazing for you is build your own level for a moddable game, just pick a moddable game you like and build a level, go and play it, few things will teach you more about level design than actually doing it.

- Religion? Who cares? (lol, easier to say that as an atheist... I know). At the end of the day believing in the Bible (especially a literal interpretation) does make you a bit nuts, but remember your Mt 7:15-20! In a general sense a good person is the one that does good actions, and people with a good head on their shoulders will recognize that no matter their religious beliefs. If an atheist is a PoS, then he is essence is shitty and would probably be even if he was a religious person, same for believers... sadly as said before juvenile atheist needing a boost to their self worth sense will attack any and all religion and associated practices >.<'

 

[DataSnake]

Now this is the part where I'm going to sound like a real dick though. There are several out there who look down on people like me who have the same obsessions or hobbies as they do but think I'm some kind of brainless idiot when I tell them I read and believe the Bible. Calling me a child and telling me to go onto my fairy tails or enjoy living in my happy made up dream land. I often want to retort what helps them get through life and not worry about death? Because for me the idea that every single thing I am is just gone in an instant and goes nowhere is the most sad, unappealing. and pathetic existence I can think of.

That's... not really evidence. It's basically this:

Spoiler: SMBC comic

Here is the problem though with you guys that judge us so harshly. You rarely take the higher road. I know that "my people" can be dicks and rude, and hurtful and believe me when I say I wish I could straighten them out myself, but when they show up I never see you guys take the high road. I always see you try to outsmart or poke holes in their logic or just generally try to degrade them so that they are reduced to nothing and you feel good about yourself. Is that really what makes you feel good? Putting "religious whack jobs" in their place?

There are a few main factors in that:
1. This:

Spoiler: xkcd comic

2. The fact that, as Cordelia Chase famously put it, "tact is just not saying true stuff". If you're wrong about something, the fact that saying so might hurt your feelings doesn't make you any less wrong.
3. As you point out, a lot of theists can be dickheads, and turning the other cheek gets old after a while. Here's one more cartoon that sums that up nicely:

Spoiler: political cartoon

 

[Chromatic Aberration]

So I've pretty much surmised that a majority of people on this particular site or at least frequent it are a few things. 1) PC gamers. 2) Atheists. 3) Valve Worshipers.

[...]

What I am really trying to say is that half the time on this site I don't feel like I belong.

I think it might be beneficial for you to see people less as representations of their groups and more as individuals. It doesn't help if you, say, equate people with labels such as pc-gamers, atheists or Valve-worshipers. First, the problem with all these (and many others) is that they do not differentiate between how much these people identify with the label. For one you have people that use whatever label they can find to identify with the tribe and therefore instinctively hate on everything from the opposition and then you have (especially as far as the labels you mentioned go) a large amount of people who simply fall under the label without committing themselves too much and hurl around insults at the opposition.

The problem is that this vocal minority that goes out of its way to make whatever preference it chooses into a fight that will obscure this difference - especially on the Internet as the tone is already rough and people focus on the loudest/most obnoxious voices. Hence it might look for the casual observer that the difference between the positions is a more fundamental binary choice without any middle ground and both sides represent far more closed off cults than they are actually are. But for all the labels you mentioned this is hardly the case: you have atheist nutters and obnoxious idiots as well as who just happen to not care for god and see no use in believing in one or several (like me), pc-gamers who will tell all-those people how wrong they are about using consoles and the large majority who does not give a shit and is likely to also own one or several consoles (like me) and Valve-ists (that word sounds so fucking horrible I vow to never use it afterwards - especially since they are not really that obnoxious or radical methinks) who tell everyone how great Valve is and a lot of people who just like Valve (not like me as I don't give a shit about Valve).

In other words: see people as people and not as objects of their tribe. In far too many cases this simply does not make sense and just makes things look far different than they are. If someone is obnoxious or insulting you may ignore or hate them regardless of their group. Or the other way around if someone is funny and smart you may like them also regardless of their group. People are much more than just their labels and infinitely complex to boot. Treat them like this and treat yourself like this and you know that there is always a place you can belong to. Also on this site if I might add.