The AntiSec "movement". I don't get it.....Help?

[Sabiancym]

So a lot of you probably saw that anon hacked Apple and posted usernames and passwords of it's users online. This is part of the AntiSec "movement" that groups like Anon and LuzSec (the Sony hackers) are apart of.

I'm having a hard time understanding this AntiSec statement they are trying to make. What I've read so far that they're main goal is to eliminate the full-disclosure of security vulnerabilities and exploits. They say that security companies use the fear of these vulnerabilities to charge clients to protect them. However, they claim that these security groups release too much information about the exploits and therefore allow hackers to learn about and use the exploits before it's fixed. They say they want companies to keep any security vulnerabilities they find completely secret so that they can be fixed without any additional damage. They target sites like astalavista ,milW0rm, and other sites which spread security vulnerability information as well as hacks and cracks for exploiting them.


I'm a bit confused. These guys are hacking entities like Apple, Sony, UK ATMs, and they even changed the home page of PBS www.pbs.org. What does any of that have to do with not wanting security problems to be disclosed?

How is them using security exploits to target and expose usernames, passwords, and other personal information going to get the security industry to stop broadcasting exploit details? Wouldn't it just encourage more people and corporations to hire these security experts to protect them from these very same exploits?

It'd be one thing if they were hacking high status individuals or exposing security companies unethical business practices, but they're not. They're putting lolpics on Public Broadcasting websites, and even posting personal information about random internet users. How is any of this going to help?


Maybe I just don't completely understand the motivation, but from what I know now, it seems like the AntiSec movement is fairly weak to begin with. Out of all the "good" causes and movements they could have supported, they chose this one? Not exposing corrupt governments, not trying to stop the violation of basic human rights, they want security firms to keep exploit information secret? That's extremely weak.

Maybe it's more than that, but even if it is, does this group even know what they want? It seems likes it's a bunch of script kiddies and wannabes who want to be a part of something. V for Vendetta fans who want to become famous for changing things, but apparently they don't want to have to leave their computers to do so.


If I'm wrong. Someone enlighten me.

 

[Saverio]

It's not, and they are not there for our sakes. Honestly I think everyone who wants to defend Anon as the hero lost their ground when they joined Lolsec, and everyone who loved lulsec as just chaos lost their ground when they joined with Anon in order to do "good".

As silly as the term sounds they are just internet terrorists.

 

[TheRealCJ]

"Nerd Rage".

That pretty much sums up the entirety of Lulzsec, Antisec, and Anonymous.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You know how the people who go round randomly insulting people and defacing things aren't just annoying wankers refusing to grow up, but are really rebels totally sticking it to the man for reasons that they will get round to explaining any time now?

Same thing.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

It's not, and they are not there for our sakes. Honestly I think everyone who wants to defend Anon as the hero lost their ground when they joined Lolsec, and everyone who loved lulsec as just chaos lost their ground when they joined with Anon in order to do "good".

As silly as the term sounds they are just internet terrorists.

This.

You know how the people who go round randomly insulting people and defacing things aren't just annoying wankers refusing to grow up, but are really rebels totally sticking it to the man for reasons that they will get round to explaining any time now?

Same thing.

And this.

Anon and LulzSec are not trying to help anyone. They're just being dicks. Ok... I'll grant that Anon has done a few things vaguely related to the greater good, but this stuff they've done with LulzSec is not one of those.

 

[Staskala]

Maybe it's more than that, but even if it is, does this group even know what they want? It seems likes it's a bunch of script kiddies and wannabes who want to be a part of something. V for Vendetta fans who want to become famous for changing things, but apparently they don't want to have to leave their computers to do so.

You pretty much answered your own question.

Think of it as this:
Someone made a joke which a few people took seriously.
Delighted by the attention the prankster got, he continued with his jokes, but as time passed on more and more people took them seriously until they vastly outnumbered the people who understood it as a joke. Everyone continued the joke, but now they did so with stern expressions, believing that they were truly doing something important, admirable even. It all went further downhill from there.

...until one day a wolf really came and ate everyone in the village. Or something.

 

[Sabiancym]

Thanks for the info. I was desperately trying to understand the whole thing. I thought

"There's no way they'd go through all this trouble of creating a group focused on furthering their agenda if they don't really have an actual definition or idea of what their agenda even is"

But apparently that's what it is. I'm guessing it's just a small group (the people who actually know what they're doing) controlling the rest of wannabes and minions. Possibly just doing it for fun, reputation, money, and respect with no real intention to achieve or try to effect the cause they claim to support.


A person is smart. A group of people is stupid, impulsive, and impressionable. Always a good rule to follow.

 

[Artina89]

It's not, and they are not there for our sakes. Honestly I think everyone who wants to defend Anon as the hero lost their ground when they joined Lolsec, and everyone who loved lulsec as just chaos lost their ground when they joined with Anon in order to do "good".

As silly as the term sounds they are just internet terrorists.

You have pretty much summed up the situation.

Actually, I completely forgot about this "Antisec/Lulzsec/ Anonymous" thing, and I am just waiting for everyone to kinda stop paying attention.

 

[ADeskofRichMahogany]

No, these groups are mostly screwing around on the internet. I used to think that Anonymous *might* have to goal to expose security weaknesses and whatnot, but Lulsec definitely wasn't and I no longer think Anonymous is.

They're like a group of kids whose parents have gone out of town for a week: they fooling around and there's no parent to tell them to cut that shit out.

 

[Sabiancym]

Thanks for the info. I was desperately trying to understand the whole thing. I thought

"There's no way they'd go through all this trouble of creating a group focused on furthering their agenda if they don't really have an actual definition or idea of what their agenda even is"

But apparently that's what it is. I'm guessing it's just a small group (the people who actually know what they're doing) controlling the rest of wannabes and minions. Possibly just doing it for fun, reputation, money, and respect with no real intention to achieve or try to effect the cause they claim to support.


A person is smart. A group of people is stupid, impulsive, and impressionable. Always a good rule to follow.

antisec is like anonymous, its a brand with ideals. In fact, Antisec has been around for a good 10 years and has been doing its thing for a while.

And those ideals are....what exactly. They don't seem to have any definite causes, and if they do, they do a terrible job communicating and pursuing them.

 

[Cat of Doom]

Meanwhile, I had a Threesome/almost a foursome, last night. Great way to spend your time fellas.

 

[Erana]

You don't "Get" their actions. Even trying falls into their Lulz trap.
Trust me, everything to do with the "Lulz" is more managable when you resist the temptation of trying to make sense of it.
Its best to get the facts you care about and just accepting it for what it is, because making sense isn't their thing.

 

[franconbean]

The reason they are so brazen about it is because of the psychological impact of the anonymity of being at a Computer. They think they are untouchable and that they can say and do whatever they want from their computer without any of it coming back to haunt them.

Its similar to road rage, i think; in your car, its like a protective bubble from the outside world and everyone else - you can swear and shout at other drivers to your hearts content and mostly, there will be no consequence (unless you literally ram someone off the road).

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Security at almost any company and website is extemely weak, because it's the one thing that doesn't get a proper budget and attention, if any at all.

So getting some main stream attention for this travesty is a good thing, just too bad that people only take notice when login data is flying around...

And LulzSec disbanded a while ago btw. And they didn't hack Sony.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

While I suspect that at least some members of this movement participate because of idealism, most of them seem to use it as a shield. Not necessarily against public opinion, but rather of their own opinion.

Fundamentally, what these people are doing is tantamount to petty vandalism. But, because their work is technical in nature, it can be assumed that these represent at least relatively smart individuals. Such people often feel the need to demonstrate their intellectual superiority to others and various hacks and exploits are a way to do precisely this. That this particular kind of crime has a very low prosecution rate it's all the better; no sense in having one's ego deflated by being caught after all. But senseless and wanton destruction hardly speaks well of one's intellect and thus it needs to be pursued in the name of something, and should that something be incredibly nebulous, all the better! This allows a member to participate in these attacks and thus feel clever when they succeed all while justifying the damage they do as part of a fight for the greater good. This is largely why the explanations offered rarely make sense; it isn't designed to justify their actions to the public but rather themselves.

Now, as I said, I'm quite sure that there are people who participate because they believe in the cause but as far as I can tell the movement seems to be largely driven by that fundamental need to satisfy one's ego.