The Big Picture: A Disturbance In The Force

[Grospoliner]

Bland corporate mediocrity... You realize that pretty much describes comic books to a T now?

 

[Darth_Payn]

Bob... just promise us you're not going to troll this film for the next two years, like you did with Amazing Spider-Man. That kind of behaviour kind of hurts your credibility as a critic.

It is worth remembering that Abrams isn't actually writing Episode VII, he's just on board to direct. Michael Arendt, the guy who wrote Little Miss Sunshine and Toy Story 3, is in charge of the script. Which has got me feeling optimistic about the project (what can I say? i like those movies). Sure, Abrams will have some input, but it's Arendt holding the pen at the end of the day.

Plus, we have absolutely no concrete word on how long Abrams will be involved in either of the franchises; we don't know if he'll be directing Star Trek 3 (or should that be 13 now?), all Paramount have said is that he'll definitely have a producing credit and that's it, like he did with Mission: Impossible 4 (a film which was, through-and-through, Brad Bird's). We don't even know if Abrams has signed on for Episode VIII.

Let's at least wait until Star Trek Into Darkness before we throw this guy under the bus, shall we?

That's the most sensible thing I've read on this whole comment thread. It's just Too Soon To tell.

captcha: Keep More Money
I'll do by not watching many of January's "hits".
Wasn't the purpose of captchas to block adbots? Now the adbots ARE the captchas. This time it was TurboTax.

 

[nondescript]

I want to maintain cautious optimism, but you argue it well, Bob. I tip my hat to you, sir.

 

[Howling Din]

Mr. Moviebobs feelings are clear. Star Wars is walking the tightrope, it can't go back, and its chances of crossing to the other side are slim and slender. He cries out in fear, helpless and powerless. Anybody with attachment with Star wars should feel the same. Then they should just stop tolerating it; the massive rolling snowball of crap that has flattened all peoples, which they're about to bring to bear on Star Wars.
Should we, the retarded mob of sheep just let them do it?

 

[Do4600]

I have trouble seeing how the original Star Wars had any vision.

It was certainly fun, but the biggest achievements I saw were purely aesthetic: the special effects, the dirty sci-fi look. When you look at the actual content of the original Star Wars movies, there is no grand message or unifying idea- there's just a fun way to spend the time in a dark room while eating popcorn.

There's a bit more than that, the story is at least compelling, the character's are strong and well acted, the dialogue is rather well written and there are some powerful moments in it.

That's what vision means, telling a good story.

Pulp Fiction certainly didn't have a grand message or unifying idea, but it's a story told well and that's really what matters.

I feel as Bob does about this. Maybe I shouldn't, but I feel that Star Trek and Star Wars should strive to be as separate in aim as possible. What I think this will do is homogenize both franchises until it's difficult to tell which is which. Director's styles are unique, they are like fingerprints, they can change, but only over long periods of time and most never do.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

I saw New Hope when I was about 12 or 13. After Revenge of the Sith came out. And you know what? I was so damn bored. Every time I watch it, I ask myself "what the fuck do people like about this movie?" It's an incredibly standard "hero's journey," it's a predictable story, it's got bad acting and bad dialogue, bad editing (one shot is used multiple times), and I never felt like the Empire was a threat. When the stormtroopers can't hit jackshit and the little farm boy is dropping dudes left and right, I feel no suspense. It felt empty to me. As did Abrams' Star Trek, so they're a perfect match!


Empire is excellent, though.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

Is it me or did his actual accent come through there more than usual? must really be upset with this...

 

[MrSundayToSunday]

I share these fears.

 

[Nieroshai]

Ah yes, the part in Top Gun where that one guy I can't remember goes back in time because he accidentally nuked Vietnam... and the last Vietnamese miner swears revenge and blows up New Jersey.

Like it or not, the Star Trek reboot had a lot more subtlety and strength than pretty much anyone gives credit for. I could give a play-by-play of nods to original continuity, the oddly well-played Shatnerness of the lead actor, the way the movie plays with putting the cast of TOS in a TNG (or DS9)-type scenario, the way Kirk gets fleshed out in the alternate timeline where he doesn't have a father to look up to, the shit Spock went through on Vulcan, etc. But Abrams was above all making a TOS Trek movie. An above-average Trek movie at that. 1, 3, and 5 were nowhere near as good as this, and 2 pulled together almost entirely on the charisma of Ricardo Montalban. The rest were okay. It's because as a cinematic piece of entertainment, Star Trek can never be more than okay. It's part of what makes Trek Trek. There's always too much baggage from the series itself, too much focus on garbage technobabble that even infuriates fans. Star Trek is good, it just can't make a good movie. And yet, there were inexplicably 3 good movies! Why? Because the bad movies weren't bad, they just played too much like an episode of the show! And here's where Abrams delivers: he doesn't have or need the show as background, but if you pay attention, the movie is subtly steeped in lore and personality, undiluted Trek with the 60's-ness stripped away.

Also, let's talk about Avengers. And Disney by connection, and Lucas by connection. The Avengers was not given the Whedon treatment, if you will; it didn't become a campy mess that forgot what it was about halfway through. Why? Because Disney and Marvel HAD HIM BY THE BALLS and WOULD NOT LET HIM SCREW UP THEIR FRANCHISE. Disney will do exactly the same here, and Lucas has been included as a consultant, need we forget. He gave away his baby, but he still has visitation rights and isn't going to let its new parents turn it into a monster (prequel rant flame shield up). I repeat: J. J. Abrams isn't the only hand in this! Lucas is still on as a consultant, and Disney has too much stake in this to let anyone screw this up. They hired one of the best to write this thing, Michael Arndt.

You said in the beginning that you hoped you would be proven wrong. I say now it is very likely.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

Well, just because you thought the new film was great doesn't mean that Bob's whole argument has been debunked, and that his fears aren't even well founded.

Secondly, the less Lucas involvement the better as we all know the biggest screw up to happen to Star Wars was George Lucas. And my main hope is the fact that Lawrence Kasdan is on the writing team, he wrote Empire Strikes Back and managed to stave off a lot of Lucas' ideas for it and it became the best Star Wars for it, so hopefully he can make Abrams do things we didn't expect of him, and at least make him hold back on the awful, awful lens flare.

 

[Urh]

That last movie showed me that we most likely won't get proper Star Trek movies or television again.

It definitely didn't feel like Abrams was shooting for quality with that last movie. It felt like a name grab cash in. Star Trek fans would come for the name, and they decided to go with young and inexperienced actors to draw in more of the young crowd.

One also has to consider that Abrams was teamed up with Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci, the writers responsible for the first of the Michael Bay Transformers movies. Even if he wanted to shoot for quality (or even attempt to remain true to Rodenberry's vision), he was hobbled from the get-go by having hack writers who seem to have no fucking clue what Star Trek is about. It pains me to say this, but I'm almost willing to forgive Rick Berman for the damage he did to the Trek franchise if it means we can get it out of the hands of such philistines.

At least Episode VII has a writer who has cranked out at least one damn good script (Toy Story 3). While I'm not sure that's enough to create a new hope for Star Wars, it's all we've got at the moment.

 

[Markunator]

If you want to talk about movies with Ambition or getting to know a director, then The Avengers isn't really it either, and yet every nerd on the planet praises the hell out of that movie despite that the last half does exactly what a Michael Bay transformers movie does... just a really long battle where tons of stuff blows up and where tons of giant robots and other things destroy and nearly level a city. The only reason that Joss Wheddon escape criticism for that seems to be "Because he's a fellow nerd," where as if it were Michael Bay (and believe me I really hate Michael Bay) he'd be ripped to shreds.

Actually, it's because The Avengers is a movie where you actually give a shit about the characters, and you can tell them apart - not because Joss Whedon is a fellow nerd. Just to clarify things.

 

[Markunator]

If you want to talk about movies with Ambition or getting to know a director, then The Avengers isn't really it either, and yet every nerd on the planet praises the hell out of that movie despite that the last half does exactly what a Michael Bay transformers movie does... just a really long battle where tons of stuff blows up and where tons of giant robots and other things destroy and nearly level a city. The only reason that Joss Wheddon escape criticism for that seems to be "Because he's a fellow nerd," where as if it were Michael Bay (and believe me I really hate Michael Bay) he'd be ripped to shreds.

Actually, it's because The Avengers is a movie where you actually give a shit about the characters, and you can tell them apart - not because Joss Whedon is a fellow nerd. Just to clarify things.

 

[daibakuha]

Did it ever occur to you that he could just talk in his natural boston accent for the whole clip instead of bouncing in and out of his standardized accent instead of just being lazy?

You act like bouncing in and out is two different things. I live in New England, it's much more in and out, like it is here.

For bob bouncing in and out is pretty much just laziness and bad editing.

He has just had this problem a lot more lately, for the longest time he was purely speaking in a standardized accent so we know for a fact that he can choose one or the other to speak in. But now he is just bouncing back and forth, so yeah, lazy.

And for the record, I don't really care where you live, as it means less than nothing to me.

It's a point of reference and no, I still don't buy it. Most people here speak with a standard american accent and some of the time the regional one breaks out. It has nothing to do with laziness.

The fact of the matter is, you will just find any reason to shit on anything he does. Over some imagined slight that you feel he has against you. Honestly just shut up about it, we know you can hear his accent, no, it doesn't make you smarter or mentally superior for pointing it out.

 

[daibakuha]

If you want to talk about movies with Ambition or getting to know a director, then The Avengers isn't really it either, and yet every nerd on the planet praises the hell out of that movie despite that the last half does exactly what a Michael Bay transformers movie does... just a really long battle where tons of stuff blows up and where tons of giant robots and other things destroy and nearly level a city. The only reason that Joss Wheddon escape criticism for that seems to be "Because he's a fellow nerd," where as if it were Michael Bay (and believe me I really hate Michael Bay) he'd be ripped to shreds.

Actually, it's because The Avengers is a movie where you actually give a shit about the characters, and you can tell them apart - not because Joss Whedon is a fellow nerd. Just to clarify things.

I agree, you have to do some serious mental gymnastics to pull that comparison off. It's both incredibly generous to Bay and disingenuous to Whedon to even compare the two. It's almost like we didn't even watch the same movie.