The Big Picture: A Nerd By Any Other Name

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PhiMed

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Nov 26, 2008
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Movie Bob: Why aren't hardcore sport nuts ever really called "sports nerds".

They are. All the time. You just don't engage in the circles that call them that.

You're essentially making the argument that someone who focused onthe vehicular Voltron deserves the same deference of someone focused on lion Voltron. The reason people don't care isn't because one is more silly. It's because one is more popular.
 

Timbydude

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Jul 15, 2009
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You made some awesome points. There's definitely a dichotomy that tends to go completely unexplained.
 

Wolcik

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Jul 18, 2009
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There's a new "N word" and it's not race based XD
People are called Nerds no matter how they interact with their favorite medium - whenever they making games/graphic novels, or just fans of them. You could call a sport fanatic a nerd, but you would do that to an actual famous player.
 

aaronmcc

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Loved it Bob. Never thought about it that way at all until you talked about it. Although I would say it's more acceptable to be a nerd these days. I'm a pretty unapologetic nerd with a 15year comic book collection that might collapse my apartment floor any day now but I'm good socially and people like to shoot the shit about comic book heroes these days. It's great fun telling them all the potential stuff that could happen in Iron Man 3 for example.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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I laughed so hard at the 'cosplay' bit I had to rewind the video to hear what you said afterwards.

And football nerds and fanboys can't come together for a very simple reason.

You ever tried to get a Star Trek TNG fan in a room with a Star Trek DS9 fan?

Nerds hate nerds of other nerdoms almost as much as they hate regular people who aren't in the nerdom at all, and the same is true of all boundaries of nerdom. If you are a sports nerd, you hate everyone who isn't into your particular nerdom.

Everyone who supports their team in a more casual way is just that.

Seriously, you said there were parallels and there are. Casual sports fans are like casual gamers are to hardcore gamers. Hardcore sports fans don't like people who are casual team fans. The amount of hatedom that gets spewed at people who only started supporting say Manchester United or Chelsea after they started winning consistently by real fans is just the same as hardcore Half-Life fans who spew hatred at Halo because it's popular. (British football, I don't know any American teams)

They are us, but WE ARE THEM!
 

Koganesaga

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Feb 11, 2010
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Fantastic points and all true. However the reason's for the hatred between the two can vary. For example SFR said it's because sports fans think themselves more apart of the team than they really are. Personally, aside from jocks usually getting all of the attractive women (assholes) it's also that they seem to have a sense of superiority about them. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a humble jock? I'm willing to bet few and far between if at all. I know it's a generalization, but why do they exist in the first place? Because of the most part that's how they are.

Back to my point, they usually flaunt about and are just to arrogant. They think they're the hottest shit because they can list statistics or know all the players on a team. Aside from other people that feel the same way, anyone else can sit back and notice that they're almost insane. Of course what irks me the most is the stupid sports games they play. Congratulations, you just spent 50+ dollars on something you can go outside, and do for free. It seems like such a waste of time and money, especially when the free version can build their endurance, speed, and what-not they would need to potentially play for the team they root for. Some people claim that nerds can do the same thing outside with LARP (live action role playing), but here's the difference; you can throw a football like in the game, but you can't breath fire on a corrupted tree person like in the game.

All in all, there may come a day when the two culture can become one (which kinda has happened in Korea) but until the social differences are settle, it is a far ways away.
 

WaderiAAA

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Aug 11, 2009
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The reason why sport fans and sci-fi/comic/videogame fans aren't in the same category?

I'd have to say intellect. Though I personally have one foot in each group (going to a school of sports scienfe and also liking videogames, mangas etc), the difference is the good old brain vs brawn thing. We idolize athletes because they are the best that they can be in terms of physique, while what we love about our world-saving heroes is their bravery and intellect.

While I know it is far more nuanced than that, I think that is basically what divides the two groups.

Another way to look at it, is that sport fans praise actual people while the characters nerd looks up to are fictional. I suspect that is why some respect sports fans more than nerds.
 

Lieju

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Jan 4, 2009
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There are a lot of non-hardcore sports-fans, so the extremes get cover from them. people don't want to point out they are weird, because they like to watch occasional the sports-match as well, and have some team they support or root for.

And while the same goes for stuff like comic-books, the non-obsessive fans are not as much out there. People don't all go to the pub together to watch the latest trailer for the new videogame, and turn it into a social occasion, where even those that aren't that interested in the subject participate for the social side of it.

I'm diagnosed with aspergers, and while my dad officially isn't, he either has it as well, or at least several qualities of it.
We both have the interest for memorizing data and debating trivia, but have different main points of interest; for him, it's sports, he works in the sports journalism, has impressive knowledge of it, and while he isn't social enough to cosplay as Maradona to matches, he collects sports-memorabilia.
For me, it's natural sciences, scifi, fantasy, anime and manga, and in general the nerd stuff, and I collect things related to that.
 

Piction Froject

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Nov 11, 2010
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Best video of his I've seen yet on the Escapist. The parallels he made were quite good and the furry part made me laugh so hard.
 

Jacob Haggarty

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Sep 1, 2010
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Yeah, things is though, sports fans will always be more "socially accepted" because they are outside, fitter (in most cases) and importantly, socialising. You CANNOT say that things like games are sociable, ESPECIALLY mmo's, because they encourage players to remain at home, playing and leveling etc. Companies like blizzard rely on the adictiveness of their games to keep money rolling in, and it works and theres nothing wrong with that. However, although you may argue that you meet new people online, ironically it's at the expense of REAL-LIFE interactions. Paradoxically, you are growing less social, the more you socialise.

Sports on the other hand promotes physical fittness (and therefore MENTAL fitness) and team playing. Again, mmo's do team playing, but its simply not the same, because you arent THERE. Your playing in a team, while remaining quite alone.

This isnt a dig at games, or people who play them. Its just laying out the facts (or what i would consider to be facts) from an outsider point of view. I am neither an avid sports fan or a die hard nerd. I am just your average joe, i like a bit of both.

Besides, physical exercise hasn't been proven to have any negative physical side effects, and conversely has a lot of research to show that sports have a very profound impact on mental health (along with healthy eating and sleep, two things that aren't really part of nerd idea).
Gaming, although there are very few actual links, carry the stigma of being BAD for you, mostly the idea that it affects mental health. Which isnt ENTIRELY unaccurate, because some mmo's do actually become addictive, like cigarettes become addictive.

Thats just my idea anyway. I say again, i dont belong to either category (and i resent being labbeled anyway) and i simply call them like i see them.
 

RTR

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Mar 22, 2008
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You nailed it, Bob. Also, you make a fine Mario.
I don't know why but I seriously ROFLd with the Twi-hards/Yankees analogy.
 

The Philistine

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Jan 15, 2010
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Social differences aside, the reason sports fans and other nerds wouldn't come together because they have nothing to really talk about. At least a Star Wars fan and Star Trek fan would have something vaguely in common to talk about. Being neither, I find myself just as bored listening to either of those types of nerds go on about their favorite genre as I do a sports fan prattling on about their favorite or most hated team.

When people don't have much to talk about or a reason to come together to talk about something, and have both parties genuinely interested, they're going to remain separate social circles.
 

mykalwane

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Oct 18, 2008
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Great job, though I would like to take note that Dr. Seuss did not come up with the word. Rather the word use to be used at freakshows. The word geek would be used as freak. The reason why most people were called a geek threw the mainstream was because those outside the norm were called a geek. Where this barrier was put up to separate the geeks, much like in comics. Though the reason why it became ingrained in people's mind was because of Dr. Seuss. Since I don't think the word was widely used outside of freakshows till after WW2, which was about the time Dr. Seuss became real popular I believe. I may be wrong on this, but the main reason I bring this up is I remember there being this black and white movie with a freak of a creature that was being called a geek. I believe the line in the movie was "Come see the geek". So I may have memories mixed with facts and be wrong here.

skylog said:
Wouldn't Spider-Man be more analogous to the Mets rather than the Cubs?
No because the Cubs it is a deal of they tend to be loved for the same reasons as Spiderman. When they are doing well thing never work as they should. It is the main reason why the Mets last win in the World Series was 1986, while the Cubs have never as far as I know. It is why the Cubs have the nickname of the "Lovable Losers" much like with Spiderman. The feeling of the loser fighting a losing battle, that every single win has this feel of victory against the odds. Something that Spiderman does, it is also why Spiderman is a voyalist fantasy for many nerds. Since at most geeks are at best the lovable losers.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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You don't need to overcomplicate things. Simply put Nerds are people who don't fit in with the societal norms. It doesn't even have to involve fandom, although that can go along with it. If don't fit in, your a nerd.

Similarities between fantasy fandom, and sports fandom can be made, but by and largely come down to intellect. Not everyone can get their heads around a lot of science fiction and fantasy concepts, and even if they can none of it is real. On the other hand "Man that can jump really high" is something anyone can understand, and an accomplishment that can be appreciated in of itself. Thus anyone can get behind something that is real, verifyable, and involves an activity that they could participate in themselves with an actual, tangible result even if they are not as successful at it.

Everyone can pretty much understand the fundemental idea of kicking a ball into a certain area where other guys try and stop you. Everyone can understand the same thing with putting a ball through a hoop. It's very simple, and very tangible. Not everyone can understand or appreciate say a paper and pencil RPG where all the action happens in your imagination and people can spend hours talking about fantastic concepts, without producing anything tangible, and somehow be entertained.

You'll notice that over the years a lot of things that WERE Nerd domain have been increasingly dumbed down an simplified which is why the mainstream have managed to get involved in these games. A point being made frequently that for the original group of fans these dumbed down games have basically ruined gaming. It's sort of like where if you ran sporting events "Harrison Bergeron" style where drugs were administered to all of the athletes so nobody would have an unfair advantage. "Man who can jump really high" becomes "Man who can jump like everyone else", kind of ruins the whole thing.

You can see this issue discussed here on "The Escapist" in various forms with a divide between "real gamers" and "casual" gamers which is something I'm not going to rehash here since this post is long enough and I have no idea who is bothering to read it as it is. :)

When it comes to comic books, I think they represent a rather unusual medium. To be honest I think the problem with comics is that due to societal panic reflexs, similar to the current anti-violent video game crusades, they wound up being regulated to the point where it was impossible for them to grow up with the people reading them. They were very simple stories, whih took place in idealized worlds, and could never progress beyond that. Thus it took a rare kind of person to remain interested in them beyond a few years in childhood. Though to be honest comic book fans and collectors were never really scorned *JUST* for that, since everyone read them at some point, and people can understand both nostolgia, and the motivation to collect something. The current success of the comic book-inspired movies is because they are demonstrating to a mainstream that had by and large moved on that comics had broken free of the previous conventions and have been able to grow up (somewhat) while still remaining very simple.

"Star Wars" is also an interesting case because it's not really science fiction, it's "Space Fantasy" whether anyone wants to admit it or not. The entire thing is pretty much a fairy tale set in space (and like many fairy tales in their original forms, was very dark in it's initial conception, but that's another whole discussion). Even the "A long, long, time ago, in a galaxy far, far, away" is meant to invoke the image of the classic childhood tale.

Star Wars pretty much throws flashy, easy-to understand stuff out there, without bothering to explain how any of it works or makes sense. Sure there are nerds who took it to a whole new level and demanded explanations (or created them), but to the typical viewer it's pretty much "ooooh, pretty... look at all the lights and FX. Wow is that a metal bikini?".

Compare this to say reading a Science Fiction novel. First you need to be able to read at a reasonably high level (and literacy has been a problem in the US for decades sadly). Then if you are reading actual science fiction, nothing just happens purely because it's cool. If you read things like Pier's Anthony's "Bio Of A Space Tyrant" series for example, above and beyond all of the gunfights, ship battles, and (frequently kinky) sex, are explanations on how everything works and why things are happening. Why ships are shaped like spheres, how and why battles are fought largely by "Carrier Ships" using AI controlled drones, the motivations and techniques of space piracy, the subculture of migrant labourers in the far future. All of these things are parts of the story, you omit that kind of stuff and your typically left with a bunch of wierd looking space ships and mindless violence and sex with nothing to explain why anything works the way it does. This is by and large why science fiction movies failed on such an epic level before "Star Wars" which pretty much was developed to use the trappings of sci-fi with an intentionally simplistic storyline... and it worked. Today the remake of "Battlestar Galactica" is about as deep as something like this gets for the mainstream, and it's like a kiddy pool compared to serious science fiction.

I think perhaps the best example of the problem can sort of be illustrated in the movie "Battlefield Earth". I won't say that the book on which it's based is wonderful, but it's far from the worst thing out there. When you hear people in the mainstream talking about that movie you hear people talk about how "dumb" it is that a bunch of savages could learn to fly planes using simulators in what seemed to be a ridiculously short period of time, or how a race that had obliterated human civilization inside of 4 minutes could be so totally stomped (even in a smaller scale battle) by refurbished 20th century weapons. Of course if you read the book you'd know that the "uprising" took quite a while to get going, and also the key element was that the aliens were arrogant and managed to win due to having total surprise. Their weapons tech as far a face to face confrontation wasn't any better, they had just developed in some other areas (a point not unique to this story, I've mentioned it in other posts discussiong alien invasions and the like). The bottom line was that the aliens themselves were surprised the same way (as I remember there was an analogy), and never having actually engaged the human military due to it being surprised they had no real respect for the fact that in atmosphere that fighter jet is still going multiple mach speeds (just like your fighters) and your ships are not going to ignore getting hit by a couple of laser guided missles packing explosive warheads. Sure you might have a fancy hand held energy cannon that can put a hole in something, but if you get hit by bullets from an assault rifle your just as dead. Of course watching that movie, you'd never pick up on any of this, and it was all glossed over. If you knew the book somewhat to begin with you could get where it was coming from, but due to it not being spelled out (and under a time limit as a movie) the thing suffered to mainstream audiences. Only with very long series like "Stargate" do you see much discussion of concepts, and that's something that is gradually worked in over YEARS if a series survives at a very basic level.
 

Kristoffer Mattila

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Mar 28, 2010
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In my language, (swe) sport nerds ARE called sport nerds. So is everyone else.

Music nerds
History nerds
You name it

with the exception of maybe cooking nerds. Never heard that one
 

malestrithe

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Aug 18, 2008
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As far as the brain is concerned, there is no difference between having an encyclopedic knowledge of comic books, movies, sports, guns, or NASCAR. That kinds of specialized knowledge gets stored in and accessed by the same parts of the brain.
 

Kaytastrophe

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Jun 7, 2010
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yeah I can kind of see that too. I guess the terms nerd and geek are very convoluted and need to be further examined. However, I do think a divide needs to be made, and the problem with this weeks big picture is that bob is using the idea of geek and nerd synonymously.