The Big Picture: Batman Revisited, Part 4

[MonkeyPunch]

I have to disagree on the casting. I think the actor choices were pretty good.
Arny as Freeze and Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy were great choices. It's just the execution that was terrible.
I also really dislike the overall plastic-y look of everything and the studio sets are among the worst I have ever seen.

 

[Falseprophet]

Also, Batman was originally a far darker protagonist in the Golden Age.

For like 8 months when he was a thinly-veiled rip-off of The Shadow, before they decided they wanted a piece of that sweet Superman readership and gave him a kid sidekick?

In the SILVER AGE he was campy like in the show

The comics were way campier than the show. At least in the show there wasn't any time travel, alien invasions, or people being transformed into talking monkeys.

but going to his roots he was supposed to be a bit more gritty and grim than the average superhero much like the Dark Knight Returns

The Dark Knight Returns was not about bringing Batman back to his "roots". It was a deconstruction of the character and his millieu, and intended to be a contrast to and satire of the iconic presentation of Batman, not a template. DKR is kind of impenetrable to someone who's never picked up a Batman comic. Without some previous understanding of the Batman character and the DC universe, DKR is just Dirty Harry in a funny costume.

I still don't get why so many people want Batman to be such a dark, serious character when his central concept will always be ridiculous: he's a billionaire who dresses up like a bat so he can punch a clown.

 

[jkvoller]

The one reason I hat Batman and Robin is because it ruined Bane. It turned him from an intelligent super criminal who could outwit Batman and broke his back into a lumbering overweight bodyguard. Even worse, people now think that's how he truly is and I just hope that TDKR changes all that

 

[Dygen Entreri]

It's kind of funny how much people seem to like this movie. Above me I'm seeing that there are more comments saying they liked the movie then not. Sometimes I think that everyone hating this thing is more a result of it not being cool to like it.

As for myself, I've always loved Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. They are stupid funny, and have enough action to keep me entertained. And unlike a lot of people I know, I don't seem to have a severe alergic reaction to bad puns.

And seriously, if I were a guy who could only survive in sub-zero tempatures, required a special suit just to live around normal people, and was crazy enough to go on a crime spee using a freeze ray as my main weapon.... HELL YEAH I'd be using stupid puns to make the most of the ice theme!

 

[Falseprophet]

Never knew the movie was considered bad, because of gay undertones...
I just thought it was bad, because it sucks.

A lot of younger males will use the term "gay" as an epithet for anything that doesn't fit their particular definition of "badass" or "manly" without really intending homophobia. So a guy in a tight black PVC bat costume can get into extended bear-hugs with sweaty thugs and that's okay, but add some neon lights and nipples on the suit and all of a sudden it's "gay".

And honestly, I undertstand why a Batman movie should not be gay in any way.
Having Batman turn gay, or making him seem gay in any way brings with it horrible implications about his relationship with all the robins...

There is no more of a link between homosexuality and child molestation than there is between heterosexuality and child molestation.

 

[therandombear]

As stated in comments above: I loved Batman and Robin. Mr.Freeze was the best part with all his ice puns, I love puns.

 

[UnSub]

I still don't get why so many people want Batman to be such a dark, serious character when his central concept will always be ridiculous: he's a billionaire who dresses up like a bat so he can punch a clown.

To be fair, he's an equal opportunity puncher of all people with mental illnesses, not just clowns.

 

[disappointed]

Tim Burton's Batman was cool. Adam West's Batman was cool. The Schumacher films were neither one thing nor the other. Dark and camp is not a thing. George Clooney is way too self aware to be camp and too cheery to be dark. The movie clunks along from one ugly scene to the next. So-bad-it's-good camp classics need to be easy to watch. This was not.

Am I the only one who thought Arnie as Mr. Freeze was the best thing in the film?

 

[anian]

I watched B&R when I was about 13-14yo. Before that I watched the Burton movies on the tv. I thought they were scary and I didn't even get half the story, but I thought they were cool as hell. Mind you before that I haven't even read Batman comics, I only watched the West series (which I was really into, but was a lot younger then and even that I took for a serious action show).
I kind of liked Batman Forever when I first saw it, but even then I remember thinking it lost it's edge.

The whole gay "vibe". I honestly never even noticed and I think it's one of those things that you don't notice but then somebody talks about and then you can sort of see it, but I still don't really see it.
Gay or not, nipples are freaking stupid, it's just bad design with no point to it whatsoever.

And now that I even get all the puns, maybe it's just that I'm not American or something, but this movie is still not "stupid funny". On the other hand I never thought Flash Gordon was that kind of movie either, sure it's camp and some things are silly but there's so much ideas and imagination behind it, while in B%R they almost went for "let's make it so kids like it", while I'm pretty sure that wasn't the whole point of Flash Gordon.

 

[Lyvric]

When I was a kid I enjoyed this movie because I always got a kick out of mr. freeze. Arnold made a great one and the puns were hilarious.

I liked robin growing up. I also figured because batman barely talked to ladies or rarely had a girl to rescue, that robin was kind of a lonely-guy-comnpanion-even-if-not-going-outish friend. Even as a little girl not understanding culture or gay referances totally, I thought that was a refreshing change of perspective on a hero.

 

[Lyvric]

Goodness, I'm glad superman didn't look that way! He looks like a messed up x-man villian!

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I knew it.

 

[K84]

Hmm, so B&R was fun, campy, had awesome Ahnuld Ice Puns and Uma Thurman....
AND gave us MovieBob to enjoy?

Liked the movie, loving it now.

 

[MorganL4]

well, let's also be honest: nipples on the Batsuit are stupid. Also, Batman was originally a far darker protagonist in the Golden Age. In the SILVER AGE he was campy like in the show and in the Schumacher movies but going to his roots he was supposed to be a bit more gritty and grim than the average superhero much like the Dark Knight Returns (not its sequel though) or the Nolan movies. Albeit Bob Kane was pretty much a hack whose worst ideas were edited by Bill Finger and Batman did STUPIDLY use a gun in the beginning, but that's how things are. Heck, in the Silver Age Batman was pretty close to being canceled

Anyway, B&R will always be a stupid movie.

While I will agree that bat nipples are stupid......

I do believe that your use of the term "originally" is misplaced. Case and point May 1939's Detective Comics #27

Also, if you read about Bob Kane's original concept for Batman, he was wearing red tights....

Bill Finger, did however convince Kane that a darker look would be best, but overall the original batman was still fairly campy.

Also, I was a little kid when Batman and Robin came out, and despite the fact that even I could recognize the camp, I still enjoyed the film.... Though I can see why adults at the time would not enjoy it....

 

[DustyDrB]

Having Batman turn gay, or making him seem gay in any way brings with it horrible implications about his relationship with all the robins...

I'm pretty sure gay men can be around boys without molesting them.

 

[grigjd3]

Oh I see what you did there... Wait, what?

 

[Trishbot]

Dammit, Bob, you went there.

As a bisexual woman that can put her hand down anyone's pants and be happy with what I find, I have no problem with Joel Schumacher being "gay", but to imply that "gay sensibilities" are directly tied to stupid movie decisions, gaudy color schemes, awful movie puns, badly miscast actors, juvenile and puerile camp and overacting, ridiculous rubber nipples, toy-driven movie design, and all-round bad movie making is, well, a bit offensive.

The problems with the film are there whether the director was gay or not. The fact that he happened to be gay is completely and entirely inconsequential to the quality of the film (and that quality is BAAAAD). If some stupid-ass teenager decides to say "the film is gay", you really need to know that teenagers don't mean half the crap they say literally. C'mon, Bob, I was there too, and the film is totally "gay" in the teenage meaning that it is "lame".

And I'll also disagree with you on another thing. Batman & Robin IS "so bad it's good". Seriously. Where have you been for the last decade and a half? It is often featured alongside Street Fighter: The Movie and The Room as hilarious riff-track terrible movies. People love to mock the film. It is completely and utterly a "so bad it's good" film and has been for over a decade.

And that's the problem. See, Bob, as much hate as Batman & Robin gets, it was not a box office failure by any means. It was a success, albeit not one as big as Batman Forever, and it's merchandising made more than the entire films budget by two-fold. Batman & Robin, by the numbers, was never a failure. However, the backlash against the film, the dislike, the scorn, and even the shame of the actors involved (George Clooney has stated he will refund the money of anyone who saw the film if they approach him on the street), coupled with the critical success of the dark and gritty Batman: Animated Series, made Warner Bros. look awful by comparison.

... And that reminds me...

... Where the hell is your "Batman Revisited" of "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm", which many folks would saw is actually the best theatrical Batman movie ever made? You can't do a revisited over the Batman movies and not mention the highly acclaimed animated movie. You just can't.

 

[campofclay]

Why did B&R suck so bad when I walked out on it in the theaters? To me, it was the promise of a blockbuster "Batman Part 4". I wasn't a fan-boy, just a part-time lover of all things nerd; I didn't read every story that came out. In fact, I didn't see any save the TV commercial which promised a continuation of the series. I endured the campiness until the fight scenes started breaking out around the fake plastic 'ice'. Once I saw the telephone booth 'ice crystals' (which were glued) shake... I got up and walked out.

Honestly, I never saw anything 'gay' about it until you mentioned it. Sure I had more than a mild discomfort at the 'bulletproof nipples', but just thought it in poor taste. I have nothing against the LGBT community and hold them close to my heart as my neighbors, friends and family. However when people ask 'what was so bad about it' and bring up homosexuality, it misses the point completely. People paid good money to watch a professionally made movie and were shocked at the lack of content and PISS-poor production value.

I remember telling a friend that if they wanted to give me over $100 million dollars to make something of equal or greater quality, I would be hard-pressed to say no.

 

[ProtoChimp]

And this is the side of Bob that reminds me he's worth listening too, unlike his opinion on nearly every FPS... Okay, I apologise, that was a cheap shot. But I agree, pretty much completely with this video.

 

[Shameless]

This is strange, I never thought of homosexuality while watching Batman & Robin.

Anyway, yeah the bat-nipples were the least of the movie's problems. Nobody is gonna say "Yeah B&R is fantastic" if you removed them.