The Big Picture: Continuity Wars

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Baldr

The Noble
Jan 6, 2010
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Ok as an EU fan, when they first started working on the EU back in the early 90s, most of us took it as a symbol that they(Lucas) may never get to Episode 7 and beyond. The fact that a bunch of writer agreed to taking sections of the future story and working off already EU established work made it nice to read. A long drawn out story that hardly contradicts although sometime creating crazy and ridiculous scenarios.

It not that we(all) thought the movies would follow the EU, it that the new movies now throws a lot of the good stories out the window is kind of sad.
 

Boba Frag

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Dec 11, 2009
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I just have one damn question, Bob....

Could you tell me where the image from 1:08 is from? Because I would read the hell out of that book.

Awesome video as always, dude. While I love the DC characters more than the Marvel ones... I can't help but look over at Marvel and regard that continuity with some jealousy.

DC are a little afraid of their history, I think.
 

saintdane05

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Aug 2, 2011
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Look, just adapt Vector Prime, and I'll call Star Wars VII the best thing ever. Okay, Abrahms?

Here is the current official stance on canon, in order of importance

G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).[1]

T-canon,[2] or Television Canon[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.[4][5] It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee[6].

C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be;[7] they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.

S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.

N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon.
D is Detours Canon, used for material hailing from Star Wars Detours.[8]
 

grumpymooselion

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May 5, 2011
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Is it bad I had a big stupid grin on my face whenever he went off on a Mario tangent?

Soviet Heavy said:
I always enjoy how people are so quick to disregard the EU, but I often find that they always add an addendum to say "except KOTOR".
Probably because a lot of people liked the KotOR series at one time. I'm a big fan of KotOR II, and to a lesser extent KotOR I myself. On the subject of retroactive continuity though . . . Star Wars: The Old Republic pretty much destroyed KotOR and KotOR II, retconning nearly everything in sight, twisting and destroying a series I'd loved prior. A sign of just how far Bioware has fallen, in regard to KotOR and a sign that Obsidian being put in charge of KotOR II, rather than Bioware, was a very good thing.

Just too bad about Bioware and SWTOR. I'll just pretend SWTOR never happened.
 

Bujiraso

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Feb 12, 2011
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Bob.
Don't stop talking, you're reviving my love of Mario which has been cold, rotten, and dead since the 64 days.
 

Cpt. Slow

Great news everybody!
Dec 9, 2012
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People are more interested in the Mario talk than in the Star Wars blabber. But my theory is that we would see many, many, many more of these episodes about this subject. And even more so when 2015 draws closer. So maybe it's even safe to say that we will be seeing a monthly 'hurrr, the new Star Wars sage better be good' item? Or is Bob going to skip the pretence and just fill every Big Picture episode with his ranting against the new films? well, we will see.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sep 20, 2009
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MovieBob said:
Continuity Wars

MovieBob shows us the consequences of the new Star Wars movie.

Watch Video
Bob, I'm thinking at this point, another 'Mario' Ep is in order, cause that little Mario tangent you went on, solid gold :D
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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Yeah, the Mario Universe is not one you really want to think too much about otherwise your head will explode.
 

Arqus_Zed

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Aug 12, 2009
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bastardofmelbourne said:
Soviet Heavy said:
Thing is, I don't give a shit about Mario continuity. I came in with the promise of hearing about Star Wars, and left with nothing useful being said and a two minute tangent on why fucking Shy-Guys are interdimensional beings.
Arqus_Zed said:
Cute.

He spends about one third of the entire episode talking about it. In great detail. With information that seems disturbingly well thought about. Questioning various theories in rapid succession. He probably wanted to let it come of as a joke, but if you're not too dense, it's quite obvious he's really being quite serious.

It's like that Moviebob episode where he pretends to have seen a private screening of a new high budget Super Mario movie. The episode was basically: "If I had half a billion dollars, this is the Mario movie I would make." Yeah, it was disguised as an April fools episode, but he just wanted to get all his "super cool ideas" to the masses.
I'm going to address both of you at once, because the response is the same.

Lighten up! He was taking a crack at the fact that nerds tend to obsess over ultimately frivolous entertainment endeavours (the message of the video, if you were listening) by going humourously overboard on his analysis of the Mario continuity - a series of games that don't really have a continuity, being entirely frivolous entertainment endeavours. The fact that I have to explain the joke to you kind of destroys its humour, but really, it was very obvious he was joking, and the fact that you two both seem to think he had a serious beef with the Mario continuity frankly amazes me.

He's basically saying "Continuity bugs me as much as it does you, but it's actually way more fun if we just sit tight and enjoy it." And you guys are just going "Rah rah, not enough Star Wars, too much Mario, I'm a very serious person who is inexplicably grumpy about the videos produced by a film critic I clearly don't like very much to start with."
Alright. So. It's like 23:55 where I am right now... And I got to get up early tomorrow... And I just don't care anymore.
So I'm gonna try to make this quick before this just ends up drowning in my quote message box.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of Star Wars, I haven't been interested in Mario since Super Mario All-Stars and I didn't have any problem with whatever he said about continuity. He's probably right. I wouldn't know, I don't tend to obsess about stuff, as far as I know I'm not following anything with a long, established continuity. It just bothers me that Bob is so obsessed with Mario/Nintendo. And I know it's not supposed to be none of my business, but he does it all the fucking time, even when there's no reason to. In Moviebob, in The Big Picture, in the Game Overthinker (at least, he used to, I wouldn't know since I haven't watched that show in ages, if it's still around).

And no, I don't think Moviebob has a serious beef with Mario continuity. In fact, I believe Bob is incapable to have anything against Mario in general. This does not mean I don't like him as a critic, he actually has some good episodes. It's just that he has a higher chance of messing up his episodes than some of the other critics I follow, probably because their shtick doesn't consist out of constantly acting as if you're looking at things objectively, but then getting completely biased when one particular franchise/developer/producer comes up.

You can reply on this message if you want to have the last word, but I probably won't reply back. It's a silly thing that has already gone on too long. Like I said, I don't tend to obsess over things.
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Dec 11, 2012
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grumpymooselion said:
Probably because a lot of people liked the KotOR series at one time. I'm a big fan of KotOR II, and to a lesser extent KotOR I myself. On the subject of retroactive continuity though . . . Star Wars: The Old Republic pretty much destroyed KotOR and KotOR II, retconning nearly everything in sight, twisting and destroying a series I'd loved prior. A sign of just how far Bioware has fallen, in regard to KotOR and a sign that Obsidian being put in charge of KotOR II, rather than Bioware, was a very good thing.

Just too bad about Bioware and SWTOR. I'll just pretend SWTOR never happened.
For God's sake, it wasn't that bad.

All they really did was

kill off the Exile, who was created by Obsidian and not Bioware, and then have Revan get killed by the Empire in what was really quite a well-executed flashpoint.

It's not like they took away the lightsabers or anything.

Arqus_Zed said:
You can reply on this message if you want to have the last word, but I probably won't reply back. It's a silly thing that has already gone on too long. Like I said, I don't tend to obsess over things.
You didn't even have to give the reply you did, so I'm really curious as to why you bothered. It was a joke. You didn't get it. Say 'I don't get it' and move on. No need to give me a point-by-point breakdown of your opinion of Moviebob's videos.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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Mar 13, 2012
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I get the point to not take the EU too seriously, but I still firmly believe that some elements HAVE to take place. There must be some of the very large events that take place, such as the invasion of Courscant. Being a big X-Wing fan, I think it would be cool as balls if Disney made a loose movie version of the Rogue Squadron series. However, I can fan something like that aside as long as they stick to the big events.

The Empire did not end because the Emperor was killed. Thus the movies should pick up with the gazillions of characters that make up the Rebellion (or New Republic, whatever the hell its called afterwards) that are at their disposal. It will still make a metric ton of money even if it doesn't have the aged cast from 30 some years ago.
 

Elf Defiler Korgan

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Apr 15, 2009
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Good points Bob,

I think on star wars, it is important to stop caring. To just be over it, not care about continuity or what Lucas did terribly after the first three great films and what Disney will now do now as it bashes the golden goose against the wall of its castle, trying desperately to get more gold. The time has come to no longer care; because we are being sold back what was already good in times past, and there will be more re-packaging. If something comes out, and it is good, by all means buy the ticket, consume related goods, have fun. We should all know now that it is important to not care too much, because there is going to be a lot of change and additions, and if we care, we lose to this inadvertent trolling.