The Big Picture: Correctitude

[MBE]

I thought it was interesting that all the examples of correct Politically Incorrectness are all dead and/or heavy illicit drug users. (Wait, I think Mel Brooks might still be alive.) Does that mean if I do mounds of cocaine and dope and heroin and say offensive things, I will get the Moviebob Politically Incorrect Seal of Approval?

 

[iamdriven]

I agree with some of these statements. Political correctness puts a muzzle on free speech or allows people to say something that may be offensive. However i am tired of being berated or otherwise told that I am a bigot or a jerk for stating a view that runs contrary to someone else's. I am allowed to disagree if I want. Troll if I would like (not intended here). Be politically or just plain incorrect IN YOUR VIEW. The RE5 argument is total BS. The location of the game was some African country. Unless someone from a tribe that was directly referenced in the game has something to say then whats YOUR PROBLEM? So you are offended for offended tribe? People in Africa, for the most part, are black. I am tired of being told by anyone, Chipman, Beck, or anyone else that my world view is wrong or that I am a pig because you disagree with me. I think that the people who think they have the only right way to look at things are the bigots, racist, and censors.

 

[hermes]

Not bad, but I don't remember the resident evil 5 racism scandal being quite like how you portray it. I'm pretty sure the complaints were "whitey killing blacks" and not "misuse of tribal imagery" But hey, I could be wrong.

The scandal in RE5 was indeed about a white man killing black zombies because that was the only thing that was shown in the trailers. The whole misuse of tribal imagery with indigenous zombies with spears and Sheva wearing zebra bikinis came later, when the game was released.
It was a pity, though... The first debate was largely demoted because it was commanded mostly by "why don't you care for our children" conservatives and people that didn't know the game, neither could see past the imagery to realise that zombies in Africa would be mostly black; so the second, most interesting debate was dismissed entirely at that point as reactionary and Capcom was left unharmed for being, at the very least, socially insensible.

 

[370999]

You do understnad the problem with that analogy though? That in those threaters if there was a fire and it wasn't called lots of peope would die.

If.

Anyone who's studied the history of xenophobia and hate speech has seen Wilders' routine a billion times. Obviously he's fallen foul of hate speech laws now because the prosecution finds his claims about the "if" questionable.

And?

And it's up to the court from that point, since if "should we sacrifice the good for the bad" is seriously the best you can do as an objection to the laws in question, there's no reason it shouldn't be.

The fact that you are fine with the government dictating what you can and can't ssay is scary. The objection to the law is simple, it limits people's free speech and has a very ugle assumption behiend it, that of people instantly turning racist the moment they see or hear Wilders so we need these political elites to deal with it.

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

I'm afraid I do feel that when an established character is played by an ethnically incompatible character, it is entirely pandering to the PC division, and not 'hey, we're living in the 21st century'.

I agree. Back when Heimdall was born and was an actual real guy, he was totally blonde and blue-eyed and it's a travesty to...

... oh hang on, Heimdall was a mythical creature... what?

I don't recall talking about 'real guy's in my post - I was talking about fictional characters. And the mythical (fictional) character of Heimdall was indeed portrayed as a white Scandinavian. Perhaps we should make a movie adaptation of his life where he's played by a Japanese woman, eh?

 

[Bobic]

Seemed a little more aggravated than usual this week Bob.
I'm pretty sure changing stories and characters to reflect times that the stories aren't set in or adding races that simply weren't there IS political correctness. But otherwise spot on.

Often though it's to appeal to a wider audience, nothing political about it.

 

[Stevepinto3]

Thank you again. People banging on about "political correctness ruining everything" tend to piss me the hell off.

 

[Twinmill5000]

Silence! I keel you!
^- that sounds funny to me.

You got a point, though. I tend to only be a jerk when people just don't get it, and after long posts trying to explain my points in understandable English that a 4th grader can understand, I will probably call them a fucking retarded bigot.

At which point all my credibility is lost, because where I usually go to do my debates, it's usually about sensitive issues like the mosque, and I'm outnumbered 5 to 2.

That's where it's okay to be politically incorrect, because when they insult my people (the redneck heeiks), I get to insult their people (oversensitive, undereducated pansies who fail to see the whole picture).

Oh and for the record, I've had the mosque debate with an actual intelligent person who brought up more points than "the only people who oppose it are close minded rednecks" before, and said things other than "go stick to your guns," and do you know what? We didn't have any issues about political correctness. The only time the word bigot was thrown around was when we were talking about the debate before.

 

[emeraldrafael]

You can say I'm dumb (and I probably am) but this went over my head and I got lost about a minute in.

So instead, I'll comment on the one thing that didnt scramble my brain. Where is the shield that guy who fights the care bears was holding from? I know I've seen it before.

 

[dex-dex]

Spot on my good sir!
spot
on!

 

[daxterx2005]

I love when people tell me they dislike obama because hes black.
I'm like, "do you even know what hes done so far as president? what laws and bills and stuff hes passed?"
They go "no"

Its complete idiocy.

 

[jabrwock]

To pose some challenging questions, I guess I'd have to ask why updating Huck Finn is a small deal to you, while something like the Thor change gets the green light. I don't have strong feelings either way, but glancing at these two highlights one of the problems with knowing the difference.

I'd say because changing Huck Finn would be altering the author's original intent (satire of prevailing attitudes), whereas the changes to Thor's secondary characters are not.

As an example, Thor's manner of speaking "ye olde english" was written to typecast him with a distinctive "style". That much isn't being altered in the movie (afaik). The skin colour of a minor god is being changed. It would be difficult to argue that this changes the behavior, mannerisms, or character of Haemdall.

Huck Finn's manner of speaking was written to parody period attitudes towards blacks. Changing the language uses completely changes the character's attitudes and world-view.

Put it in another context. Compare making the skin colour of a minor character a different colour, to changing him to be an arabian princess. One is a change of look that doesn't really impact the character at all. The other is a fundamental shift in behavior and mannerisms.

 

[jmarquiso]

The stupid tribal zombies were ridicules, but it was the imagined scenario of white vs. black that people went all apeshit over. It just went to show that we hadn't left any of that sordid business of the past behind us. Had it been Chris Redfield killing zombies in Japan nobody would've made a peep.

Speaking as an Asian-American (or whatever) I would

 

[theevilsanta]

The more I learn about Bob the more I hate him. He paints this topic so broadly, essentially calling out anyone that has made any "hurtful" comment ever. Apparently if you've ever made a non-pc statement ever you are a dick. Sorry. There's a lot more ambiguity to this issue. Sure, some people are dicks, and they have a right to be. But sometimes it's the dicks that are right, and should be listened to, and their dickiness is what makes them so effective.

I guess I'll keep watching, only to better understand the opposition.

 

[conflictofinterests]

So...

Politically incorrect = Objectionable, but with a measure of objective truth?

 

[Baresark]

Haha, I agree mostly. There are cases where the political correctness argument is very valid. I wouldn't go as far as saying PC doesn't exist and your just a loudmouth as being a completely valid arguments. I like how you touched on the Black Heimdall thing. I am a comic book purist, and I would have liked nothing more than a completely faithful translation. I have known for a long time now that things like this will never happen. But, people should be able to disagree with a movie casting, period. I don't care for how all arguments against it are made invalid because of the color of his skin. I am fine with him being in the movie, it's not like it's a major part really. I hate the accusation of racism as a counter to the political correctness argument even more than the the political correctness argument. This has given me much to think about.

I think we all know the difference between political correctness and people just being asses though.

anc[is]Carlos and Jeff are really funny :'(

please don't quote me just to tell me they're not, waste of everyones time

Haha, no worries, Carlos Mencia is HILARIOUS!!!

To pose some challenging questions, I guess I'd have to ask why updating Huck Finn is a small deal to you, while something like the Thor change gets the green light. I don't have strong feelings either way, but glancing at these two highlights one of the problems with knowing the difference.

I'd say because changing Huck Finn would be altering the author's original intent (satire of prevailing attitudes), whereas the changes to Thor's secondary characters are not.

As an example, Thor's manner of speaking "ye olde english" was written to typecast him with a distinctive "style". That much isn't being altered in the movie (afaik). The skin colour of a minor god is being changed. It would be difficult to argue that this changes the behavior, mannerisms, or character of Haemdall.

Huck Finn's manner of speaking was written to parody period attitudes towards blacks. Changing the language uses completely changes the character's attitudes and world-view.

Put it in another context. Compare making the skin colour of a minor character a different colour, to changing him to be an arabian princess. One is a change of look that doesn't really impact the character at all. The other is a fundamental shift in behavior and mannerisms.

The thing about the Huck Finn change, it's not the first time it has been done. It won't be the last one either. Another aspect of this was that Mark Twain himself despised anyone who tried to change his original prose. It's like a big fuck off to him.

The story loses impact with the changes. The most important part of the story is the impact, and the harsh reality of the time it painted. Erasing the word doesn't change the fact that it existed, it still exists, and trivializing the moments where the harsh language is purposefully put in so the reader knows the gravity of the situation and the gravity of the time detracts from the story.

It's not just a small deal, it's nearly completely trivial. This changed edition exists along side the edition with the original text. People have a choice to read the one they want. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together most likely would come to the conclusion that the original one is the best one to read. The ONLY problem I see with black Heimdall is that the movies always seem to have a way of overflowing into the comics. Most comic people are sticklers for continuity, and such a thing completely breaks it. So, to an extent, the fans have a reason to complain if this is going to be the case.