The Big Picture: Correctitude

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PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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What about white, males being ignored on the waiting lists for jobs as Policemen and Firemen. Again this may be the PC Buster brigade you mentioned spouting complete bull but if its true its seems unfair to me. I mean I understand the need for civil services being relatable to their target comunity but it seems to be the complete opposite of equality to deny what is a life long ambition for some who generally just want to help.

I think alot of good was said here but like alot of arguments I thinks theres just as many dick heads on both sides.
 

WiDEEyeDSmILes

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Aug 11, 2010
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Fucken Finally! Yes, thank you! I've had so many arguments with people thinking they were defending some group from the evils of politically incorrectness.

I laughed at the end. I have those boots ^^
 

Redbeard85

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Nov 19, 2010
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1) Some jerks use Anti-Political Correctness as a shield to hide their jerkyness.
2) Political correctness is used all the time as a weapon against people.
3) The only way society is going to get over bigotry is if it isn't the focus of our attention all the time. We need to be able to poke fun at each others expense and laugh about it. If I say "this video game is retarded", jumping on me about it for being insensitive to mentally handicapped people isn't making it better for them.
 

Clonekiller

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Dec 7, 2010
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Father Time said:
Clonekiller said:
Okay soooooo... Political correctness is a good thing? It seems to me that many movies and stories don't get shown or told because they are "not politically correct". You know, the same way that the "old" seasons of Sesame Street (old here meaning made sometime before 2005) come with a warning that says "some content may not be suitable for children". Why? Cause the Cookie Monster is unhealthy and Oscar is discriminated against. (He's a grouch you know.) Ever see the movie called Black Board Jungle or Citizen Kane? Movies like those are avoided or outright banned for being "discriminatory" or too politically incorrect. Heck, it's hard to be honest in a college writing discussion group (or a game / fandom topic) without being clobbered for being "hateful" and "discriminatory".
First of all those movies are not outright banned. Even if every TV station chooses not to air them they still haven't been banned. Second he did say that it can be taken to extremes, he used censorship of Huck Finn as an example (and they were censoring out the word ******) so I'm guessing he's not OK with messing with old movies. Not sure that Sesame Street thing qualifies as political correctness though.
All example nit-picking aside, the point I was trying to make was that Bob sounded very biased in this video. I rather like most everything Movie Bob does, but I have noticed that, when he talks about a "political" issues, he usually only argues one side while only giving passing mention to the problems the other side has. This doesn't jive with what Movie Bob usually does, since most of his movie reviews and other videos tend to be objective and all around fun, regardless of political ideology. However, videos like this give him the appearance to being a one-sided opinion show host, no different from Glenn Beck or Chris Mathews. (Just with the escapist instead of cable). Since I like Movie Bob, I don't want to classify his show like that. That's why I want him to avoid "bias" when ever it pops up, and why I dislike it so.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.
 

metalmanky306

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Dec 30, 2010
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THEJORRRG said:
Oh, yeah, some words are universally offensive, but that is because of the negative connotation they hold. Words like these are easily avoidable, though. If you say the N word (assuming you are not one) it will always be offensive, even if you're joking. What I'm saying is that if you're saying something offensive, even for comedic effect, you shouldn't if you know someone will be upset by it, because if you do, you're just being nasty, BUT, it's more important to not be offended by things people say. You've got to have a sense of humor about everything.
I'll try and sum this up.
You have the right to say what you want, but with that comes the responsibility to use your words respectfully.
How's that?
see, i agree with your point, don't get me wrong. in fact i think you summed that up pretty perfectly. it's the premise i was disagreeing with. i see no reason the N word SHOULD be universally offensive, nor any other word for that matter. otherwise what's the point in their existence? if you're trying to be offensive, you're being offensive. but i think it's your intention, not your words that should rule over that.
 

Technicka

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Jul 7, 2010
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Clonekiller said:
All example nit-picking aside, the point I was trying to make was that Bob sounded very biased in this video. I rather like most everything Movie Bob does, but I have noticed that, when he talks about a "political" issues, he usually only argues one side while only giving passing mention to the problems the other side has. This doesn't jive with what Movie Bob usually does, since most of his movie reviews and other videos tend to be objective and all around fun, regardless of political ideology. However, videos like this give him the appearance to being a one-sided opinion show host, no different from Glenn Beck or Chris Mathews. (Just with the escapist instead of cable). Since I like Movie Bob, I don't want to classify his show like that. That's why I want him to avoid "bias" when ever it pops up, and why I dislike it so.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.
There isn't anything wrong with having an opinion that leans towards one point of view over another. On top of that, Big Picture is his chance to soap box it up, and by their very nature, soap box type rants aren't going to be objective. Bias is only a troublesome thing when the person frames it as fact and/or absolute. Everyone has biases, to say otherwise is a flat out lie. Bob does a great job of owning up to his biases, and trying to see the other side of the argument - which is a lot more than people who are full out anti-PC would do for him.

I noticed that you're invoking the false equivalence that Bob has mentioned he hates. Mathews is not the equal of Beck. One rants and raves about his opinion, but isn't above letting others that don't agree with him make their point, while the other is on a crusade of demonizing the people he disagrees with. Not even the same boat, man.
 

ExtMagicMan

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Feb 4, 2011
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Nice video and good stuff. Got kinda of confusing thought because it jumped around a lot. But from what I gather it sorta goes both ways. When someone tells an offensive joke and someone calls them on it and they reply its a joke and to not be a prude. That's hiding behind PC-iness, right? And when you say garbage man and some guy says "no, its sanitation engineer...", that's also PC-douchery, right? That's what I got from the video anyways...
 

Technicka

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Jul 7, 2010
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Hubert South said:
Also, have you noticed that the people offended by racist/chauvinist/mysoginistic/whatever remarks, and those at the forefront of the PC whitewash campagin are somehow not opressed woman, disempowered minorities, oppressed children, or whatever, but usually white, middle-class, blue-collar people aged 25-40?

What the bloody fuck do they know about racist opression? A ghetto-dwelling, glock-toting, addicted-to-crack, knocked up at 14 wog/******/chino/insert racist remark for mexican/gypsy/bohunk/whatever at least has the rights to call the mainstream out on this, but what the holy balls do the aforementioned ivory tower people have to do with this?

Also, every time I hear a gypsy call another gypsy a gypsy, yet when I call the gypsy, and not roma, I'm racist, I have to laugh at human stupidity. If they call themselves that, it can not be racist, for Wotans sake.


As for Heimdal being black: well, at least its not Baldur who is recolored. (For those uneducated in Norse mythology, Baldurs very description is "the white god".)

Now, making a Beibelbog/Chernobog character with a white and a black actor (actor encompasses actress as a description, you PC pricks), that would actually be good.
You forgot a few other slurs and stereotypes for your "I'm So Damn Edgy" achievement.
 

Wereduck

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Jun 17, 2010
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Yay Bob! I'm truly heartened by all the support here, it's good to see that I'm not the only person who's sick of being potentially strawmanned for socially inclusive or progressive opinions.
What has always bothered me most about the negative use of "PC" is that the speaker is calling their target an insincere poser simply because of their assumption that nobody could be more fair-minded than they are. There are few people I admire more than arrogant reactionary whiners with persecution complexes.

Oh, and regarding Idris Elba in Thor: the Norse gods aren't human, they're gods - there's no reason why they should be the same ethnicity as Vikings when they aren't even the same species.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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This video wasn't that good. I'm all for working against racism and being politically correct in that respect, but PC has evolved beyond that. It has grown into a movement where if something could possibly make someone unhappy, sad, or angry, it will be regulated or will be prohibited. It isn't all about words or phrases anymore, it's all about feelings now.

Example: The poor kids at the school might get sad that they can't have the food that some kids bring to school, well let's make it so that other students can't bring the food that their parents buy for them. Also, we can't have rewards for good work in school because it will make the failures sad because they get nothing, or well we can't remove rewards, so to make it so nobody is sad, we will give rewards to both the successful and the failures.

Bob usually does very well with the subjects he chooses for his videos, but this video doesn't fit with the title of "The Big Picture", because it was just a side area of PC, not the subject as a whole.
 

Flying Dagger

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Apr 14, 2009
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Really well covered if not explicit in all areas, political correctness is to do with terms and not with equality, which could have been explained better.

but otherwise - massive like.
 

Odoylerules360

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Aug 29, 2008
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When I told Bob to get stuffed, this is what I meant:

Therumancer said:
I disagree with almost 100%. I also think you should leave politics of this sort out of your videos.

The problem here is that your disapproval of the "politically correct" arguement is largely that your on the opposite side of the spectrum that uses it, and as such don't like the way it portrays your own personal political biases. Your basically being just as bad, if not worse, as the people you are making a critique of.

Let me get down to one of the biggest parts of why your point of view is a problem. You are portraying bigotry as always being bad. The thing is that nothing can be changed when there is a problem, unless people acknowlege that it exists. Take American black culture for example which is very much anti-societal assimilation, and anti-intellectual at the very least. You make judgements about it, and of course your a bigot, someone who defends this as being okay or "just the way it is" is being politically incorrect. I look at guys like Bill Cosby (who has a PHD in Children's Education) and how he goes on about Black america's attitude of entitlement, and not taking advantage of the oppertunities that have been provided for it. When you have entire major racial subcultures that see education and getting a regular rut-like job as "selling out" you have an issue, and one that needs to be addressed. Of course you start singling out these aspects of black society, defining them, and trying to take action, and your being a bigot. The problem is being a bigot does not mean that you are always wrong. Bill Cosby only gets away with it as much as he has (and he's been criticized heavily for it none the less) because he's Black and the same culture can't go after him politically the way they could a guy from another race who brings up uncomfortable issues.

A better example would be recent situations with immigrants in places like Texas and California. Please not I am not talking about ILLEGAL immigrants which is another issue, but rather people who have become US citizens. We have problems to the point where we have schools banning kids from wearing the American flag, or putting it on a vehicle like a bike that they bring to school, due to fear of violence and retaliation from immigrants, especially during holidays like Cinca De Mayo (I've posted links all over The Escapist, there have been multiple incidents, not one isolated case). Basically a situation where these people have become Americans, but really just want the benefits and otherwise to be Mexicans (or in cases of other incidents around the country, whatever land they came from), these are people getting violent and making threats over the symbol of what is functionally their own country. Yes it is bigoted to single out immigrants for things like this and point out that something needs to be done, and preacing tolerance of such behavior IS political correctness.

Another big issue is things like property rights. In the USA we have tons of laws in place that are used to prevent white people (the majority) from refusing to sell property to minorities, and "whitewash" certain areas so to speak (not that it's anything like the problem it was decades ago when these laws were created). On the other hand we have issue with various minorities like Chinese, Jews, Cubans, and others who refuse to sell property outside of their ethnic group when put on the market. For all intents and purpose your dealing with a major problem of laws with a dual standard, yet there are people who defend this based on the fact that it's minorities and it would be bigoted to single these problems out to be addressed. The very fact that we have "districts" in cities like "China Town", "Little Havana", and similar things represent the problem. A building in Chinatown goes up on the market, and some white guy/company gives the best offer, and they decide to go with a lesser offer because the guys making it are Chinese, that's an issue. Ditto for situations when it's minorities who won't rent apartments or lease space to people who aren't of the appropriate ethnicity.

Finally, I think it's going waaaay off the deepend when it's being argued that taking long-established characters and changing their ethnicity to make it "more diverse" isn't political correctness. That's politically correct boneheadedness at it's absolute worst.

My long standing arguement is that due to the way society has been for a long time there aren't a whole lot of minority characters in things like comics. Of course then again by being "minorities" you don't expect there to be a lot of them in proportion to whites in the US because there are simply a lot more white guys. The problem as it exists is something to be addressed by minorities getting into things like writing and drawing comic books. It's a very competitive business of course, and this entails you having to see genuine interest within minority groups to see it done with hundreds of people dedicating their lives to it and failing for every one that actually succeeds. You need to see a quality product by the same standards, not someone handing off a contract to a black creator beause he's black. Also like anything else they have to deal with appealing to the market as a whole, a black character with a "'tude" that villifies the white majority (even if just through dialogue) like the world is still stuck in the 1930s is of course not going to work for large scale release for example.

To put things into perspective Asians broke into comics in a big way, this happened because of a lot of interest, and massive amounts of persistance. Right now you see both Manga and Western comics in a sort of symbotic relationship and inspiring each other heavily, and a rising number of asian themed super heroes in general. Heck, we've even got The Japanese doing a version of Western super heroes like "The X-men".

The problem is that while it's bigoted, a lot of the minorities that usually get involved in politically correct arguements, are demanding to see instant success and representation in things, without having to put in any real work or effort over the long term. The "get rich or die trying" attitude so to speak.

I'll say flat out bigotry is what society needs more of right now, people who are willing to flat out ignore political correctness and what's nice, focus on problems like a laser, and work to correct them even if it involves being mean. Honestly I think political correctness perpetuates problems and actually does more damage to the people it sets out to protect than it helps them... largely because it tells them that things that aren't okay are just fine.

Oh and Bob (to address you directly again, if you even read the stuff I write) for the record, those of us who take the other side of these arguements are not generally speaking cowards hiding behind the term "politically incorrect". I'm quite up front about what I think even when I use the term, and I generally deal with the crap I get for it. I might be "mean" but I believe it's for the greater good, not out of some sense of superiority, or the sake of meaness for the sake of meaness. To be entirely honest my "problem" is that I think a lot of the groups that I criticize can do a lot better, they can meet the same standards set by the majority, humans are humans. People who think that these groups need to be protected ultimatly have attitudes that come down to those people somehow being unable to do better, which is why the protection is nessicary. On most levels that's actually far more bigoted than I am, and an even worse kind of sugar-coated racism than what the politically correct hope to decry.

Also as far as "Resident Evil 5" goes, the game was fairly accurate, and I see no real reason why a third world hellhole shouldn't be portrayed as a third world hellhole simply to be nice. If people don't like how that imagery is, then strive to change it. It also comes down to the counter-issue of "why is everything set in the USA". Set a game in the third world trying to protect helpless people from bio-terrorism, and oops all of a sudden it's racist because those people are portrayed as victims who need the help.

Also, I for one can't see why the holy heck Sheeva walking around in sexed up tribal garb or a "Jill Of The Jungle" outfit is supposed to be racist or polically incorrect. It's no differant than white guys dressing up like sexed up vikings or Romans (TOGA PARTY!!!). Granted it's impractical for the setting, but that's the way a lot of alternate costumes are (which is why they are alternate costumes), we have games where the protaganist can do things like run around dressed in a chicken suit in an otherwise fairly serious game as an "unlockable". My attitude about "Resident Evi 5" is that it was just the PC crowd trying to grab a headline, and that's not likely to change. The *only* thing that made it differant from what legions of other games has done is the setting. Set the game in eastern Europe and give the female character a sexy jester costume, or a dominatrix outfit and nobody is going to bat an eye.
I really think The Escapist would be a much classier website without Bob.
 

Timbydude

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Jul 15, 2009
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I hate to say it, but...no. You're pretty much completely wrong. Creating a society where people hold back negative commentary for fear of being labeled a bigot is just plain scary. Honestly, if people want to say something offensive, then by all means we should let them. People just need to learn how to grow up.

Also, your Resident Evil commentary pretty much invalidated the content of the entire video.
 

Technicka

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Jul 7, 2010
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Timbydude said:
I hate to say it, but...no. You're pretty much completely wrong. Creating a society where people hold back negative commentary for fear of being labeled a bigot is just plain scary. Honestly, if people want to say something offensive, then by all means we should let them. People just need to learn how to grow up.

Also, your Resident Evil commentary pretty much invalidated the content of the entire video.
And this right here is wonderful proof of how people use the "un-PC argument" as a shield against disagreements. At no point did Bob say that people weren't allowed to disagree, or have different opinions. Bob was arguing against the people who behave like /b/-tards, and when called out on it, retort with a "Stop being so PC, maaaan. You're stomping on my freedoms!" There is a middle ground between doormat and aspiring Klan member. Hell, your own post does more to show this than anything else: you're disagreeing with Bob (and any who agree with him) and not once did you use a slur.


As for the RE5 thing, it did no such thing. I'm going to go on ahead and assume that a lot of the people that are going, "What's the big deal with RE5?" are, in fact, not black. As such, many of you aren't familiar with the 'Spear Chucker' trope that is often used to insult blacks. It was (and in some places, still is) a common theory of whites that blacks deserved little, to no, respect because they were little more than savages that hurled spears.
 

Normandyfoxtrot

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Feb 17, 2011
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Bob says it himself if you want to be a jerk fine, be a jerk, accept it, but don't hide behind a false label either own up to your conventions or consider that maybe their just not that important to you.