The Big Picture: Done With Dark

[RJ Dalton]

I totally agree with Bob here. I mean, a gritty reboot of Batman worked because that was the kind of story that set itself for gritty well, but that doesn't mean making everything dark makes them better. Take a look at Episode 3 for example. George Lucas went well out of his way to make it dark, but that's so fucking out of tone with the rest of the series that it stands out as an eyesore (and pointless fights that go on for 45 minutes don't help it's case in the slightest, but I digress).
The gritty reboot of James Bond is an abomination and yet people who praise it, praise it only because it's gritty. That doesn't actually improve the quality of the story. James Bond was never about gritty realism. It's a boys adventure story and Bond didn't start to truly suck until we tried to pretend it was otherwise.
Gritty Realism is a tone and it doesn't always mesh with some material. I, for one, will be glad when the "gritty realism" fad finally dies and we can get back to having characters who don't speak like they've got throats full of gravel all the time and who occasionally enjoy life.

 

[darthotaku]

I think every single My Little Pony thread on this website has conclusively proven that grown men can enjoy "kids" shows and not be weird.

 

[wolfchylde]

Wait... Thor might not be all that 'gritty' and 'dark'?

Sign me the fuck up!

 

[twm1709]

I've always equalled the g&g era of comics as a sign of the early teenage years of the genre, when they're trying to start acting like grownups all of a sudden without really understanding what being a grownup means.
Does this mean we're in our early adulthood now? after all, writers these days seem to be going out of their way to reboot, retcon and resurrect characters out of nostalgia for the "childhood" years (Barry Allen, anyone?) just like many gamers now cling to old TV shows and games from a more innocent time.

 

[Dastardly]

Done With Dark

MovieBob's had just about enough of superheroes for grownups.

Watch Video

I'm inclined to agree with you... though this irrational hatred of Transformers is really starting to show. Seek help, Bob.

What's at issue here is far deeper than just a trend in movies. It's a societal trend as old as society, and it comes in three parts:

1. Playing is for children.
2. Imagination is for children.
3. Adults are not allowed to play or use their imaginations.

We've been down this road before in your comments section, even. Man plays golf on the weekends, and he's perfectly normal. Man plays with action figures on the weekends, and he's a weirdo irrespective of anything else. He could be the world's best dad, husband, employee, employer, Pope, it doesn't matter. He's playing with toys. He's using his imagination. Two strikes and he's out.

That's why all the "gritty reboots" are mostly about "real-ifying" the hero and his/her powers. Explaining the deeper nature of the science of how this or that works, even if it's just a vague "Probably it's a quantum... something... wormhole tachyon. Higgs-boson!" Because if you ask your audience to just go with you on this, they feel treated like kids. Not because they really feel that way personally, but because they feel like others will see them that way if they enjoy it sans explanation.

(Hell, I even feel the need to say, "I don't play with action figures or anything," so as to distance myself from "that guy." Even while I wrestle with why I think he's a weirdo. It's an all-pervading societal norm with no basis in logic or reality.)

How much time does The Incredibles spend explaining where people got their powers? Next to none, unless you count the psycho-ginger kid. It's fun without reason, but it still has deeper themes for those so inclined. It's imagination without apology. Which is good, because imagination isn't some childhood luxury--it's a critical thinking skill that we are tragically losing.

We'd all be better off if adults all played and imagined a little more.

 

[Skyy High]

Anyone else feel like they were watching an episode of Linkara?

Whenever Moviebob starts talking about comics, I can't help but think about Linkara. Very similar in content, though Linkara rages a whole lot more.

"I dont know bob...Batman and Robin didnt take it self serious and it sucked."
The pendulum doth swing.

 

[Cosplay Horatio]

I'm actually very happy that Thor will appeal to children more than adults because that's what we've been missing with all these classic comic book heroes coming to life. Every time I sat with my nieces and nephews while watching Superman, Iron Man, Spiderman, or Batman they just have this look of boredom on their faces till the movies get to the parts they want to see...the superheroes beating up bad guys and/or super villains. Just because it's not gonna have adult issues it's still gonna appeal to us because we've been waiting for Thor to get a theatrical release.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I'm still waiting for a Hewligan's Haircut movie.

 

[RTR]

Nice

I knew the early buzz from Thor was gonna be brought up as soon as I red the video's premise.

 

[Philip Petrunak]

Wait, are you seriously bitching about how all the good comic-book movies have depth to them? WHY? Yea, Iron Man 2 dealt with issues of depression and dying, and The Incredible Hulk dealt with issues of rage. So what? Not only do these themes give the characters depth, they add to the entertainment value by giving us something to think about.

Its not like were ruining these films for kids. Yea, the issues are little complex for children, that's a good thing. It means a kid went to a movie and actually used his brain. Plus, so what if he didn't understand it, forcing kids to think makes them smarter, and because they're having fun they'll want to think about what they see. Who knows, maybe they won't think about it, maybe they'll just enjoy the movie for all the action, they'll still have fun.

Think about pixar's films, they're all clearly aimed at children, but would removing the adult undertones make them better? Would Toy Story 3 be better if it were just about toys coming to life, and didn't metaphorically explore the afterlife? Would Wall-e have been better if it didn't deal with mature themes such as romance, intimacy, and the environment? Would A Bugs Life been better if it didn't deal with themes of totalitarians, revolution and the value of Innovation? Of course not. Removing mature themes from kids movies won't make them better. Making films less entertaining for adults doesn't inherently make them more entertaining for kids.

If you think I'm wrong, just look at difference between the last two Hulk movies.

 

[Skarecrow13]

Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes. One of your best episodes yet.

I remember being a kid and wondering why all the wrestlers were suddenly all wearing black and being bad guys instead of wearing bright colors and just being awesome. Even the good guys were wearing black! Give me 100% more Ultimate Warrior!

Point is, there is nothing wrong with color, and not everything has to be dark. I love a good gritty tale just as much as the next guy, but I like things that are colorful, uplifting and just there to be fun as well. After all, it's entertainment.

 

[Unnamedenemy]

To be honest, anybody who thinks that the movie about the Norse god of GODAMNED THUNDER as a SUPERHERO being geared more towards classic comic silliness has something wrong with them. Hell, add to that the fact that the THOR comic is what introduce Beta Ray Bill, THE most absurd superhero ever, I mean, he's a horse-faced alien with a Thor costume and the powers of the god of thunder (look it up)!
I think the reason Thor (and hopefully any other comic movie -- here's to hoping for an "Infinity Gauntlet" movie!) is lightening up is because marvel at least is realizing that people feel the same way Bob and I do. We don't need everything to be dark and gritty, dammit! Plus, I would point out that this is the first marvel movie that is being released during their new "Heroic Age," which is all about getting back to where comics used to be before the 90s, the Avengers Disassembled, the Civil War, the Secret Invasion, and the Dark Reign, and I am glad for it. I liked all of those things (except the 90s comics, mostly) but one can only handle so much soul-crushing darkness before they crack and can't enjoy the comics any more

 

[LogicNProportion]

Can someone please explain to me how Thor is doing anything different than most of the recent Marvel Comic Book Movies, and why it is getting praise for doing so? (By simply being about the comic.)

Seriously, Iron Man was ALWAYS about two things:

-Cold War Arms Race Metaphors
-Dealing with your inner demons and be responsible

As a young man with the first 300 issues of Iron Man and then some (As in, going back to Tales of Suspense.), trust me, this is my thing. Iron Man is my guy.

The movies were about these things the whole time, with Iron Man 2 adding a sort of 'legacy' theme as well.

While craptacular, the third Spiderman movie held onto the main themes as the last two, which have always been present in the Web Slinger's comics back down to when Aunt May had more winkles than a dehydrated desert-Yoda.

Thor is doing nothing new. I plan on seeing it, but from what I have seen thus far, it looks horribly inferior to the other movies Marvel has put out.

...All in all, meh vid as usual for these segments, Bob.

 

[PhiMed]

Hey Bob, do you know why "our" childhood entertainment subjects were subjected to this while others weren't? No, it's not Seth MacFarlane, and no, it's not Alan Moore.

It's because we're the first generation since the onset of broadcast media to insist that our childhood entertainment subjects persist. Comic books aren't an evolving medium. They're not an emergent medium. They're an obsolete one. People aren't trying to make their kids listen to radio dramas. Why do we insist on attempting to make new generations of children read comic books?

Comic books didn't darken because older generations of readers needed it to be compatible with their adulthood. It didn't die because writers neglected younger readers.

It died because younger readers didn't have any interest. Not because there wasn't anything for them to read, but because there's nothing that could make them read comics. There is absolutely nothing to bring children to that dead medium.

There's an odd nostalgia in our culture that I don't understand, and it's very selective. People didn't try to perpetuate Howdy Doody or the Lone Ranger. They didn't try to bring Little Orphan Annie along to the future. They served their purpose while they held the interest of children of the day, and then they faded into oblivion. Comic books heroes were written for the audiences who lived in the day in which they were written. With the exception of one or two timeless heroes (Batman and MAYBE Superman), the rest will disappear. And that's okay. That's the way things have worked since time began.

I would've held my tongue, but you continue to harp on the subject that these outdated characters need to be marketed to children. That'd be fine, if it was a consistently held viewpoint. If children's characters need to be marketed to children, then why all the love for the recent Red Riding Hood?

 

[tautologico]

I wasn't remotely worried about Thor going down the Transformers route. Surely after Spiderman, Spiderman 2 (not so much Spiderman 3 though), Iron man, Iron man 2, (haven't seen The Incredible Hulk so I can't comment) we know by now that Marvel know how to make good movies. (Let's just pretend the X-Men trilogy never happened, it was their first try)

The spiderman movies are from Sony, the X-Men movies are from Fox. Both studios got their rights from Marvel before there was a Marvel film studio.

And BTW the first X-Men is a good first chapter and character introduction, and the 2nd X-Men is excellent. And I say this as an old-time X-Men fan who read the Phoenix Saga when it was originally published. (Of course, the 3rd movie is a piece of excrement.)

One thing I do want to know as I'm not a comic buff myself even though I like superhero movies...

Is Spiderman going to be in The Averngers movie? I don't think I've ever seen him on any of the original comic book images of them that Bob has shown but seriously, what is Marvel without Spiderman?

No, because the spiderman rights are with Sony still, and they're making another reboot trilogy to keep the rights. So no spidey in the Avengers movie.

 

[Swarmcrow]

Kinda mixed over this episode

First part is good, the Watchmen/Dark Knight returns observation especially good, however I think you kinda use "dark" to define anything that over-complexifiy itself (and if I hear transformer movie being a point of reference, I think I'll scream)

While you can easily see that bay-former and 90's comic are pretty much made with the same mindset, its not really one of grit and "realism" its more juvenile adolescent fantasy of big guns and big boobs. The tranformer movie didn't have any pretension of being dark and gritty or mature. Whatever plot there is just filler, because they probably thought CGI robot as main character would probably get too expansive.

Plus while I know you dislike the 90's when you reference tranformer being simple I can't help but think of Beast Wars, which was a tranformer franchise with a good ammout of sophistication and yet was about robot that tranform in animal

I agree with you

 

[TheEnglishman]

I'm sick of you ragging on the 90's. Especially their comics.... Especially, especially Spawn.

News flash.

The golden age of comics sucks donkey balls. The silver age sucked more of the same.

Completley wrong. As Batman: The Brave and the Bold has shown, shark-repelant and Detective Chimp rock!

 

[Deacon Cole]

I never liked these darker super heroes because despite what some say, they are not more mature. They are a child's idea of what's mature. Reminds me of little boys discussing sex, thinking sex occurred in a girl's anus because they are unaware of the existence of the vagina.