The Big Picture: Dumbsday, Part 1 - The Death of Superman

[JimB]

Supergirl was actually Matrix, a shape-shifting alien. She was also working for Luthor (though still a hero) for reasons that escape me.

Lex was pretending to be a good guy, and he was Supergirl's boss and lover.

 

[Hutzpah Chicken]

I swear I actually feel sorry for death in the comic verse , he must be the most depressed entity in either the DC or the marvel cosmos. I mean one someone dies he probably goes. 'Why bother?' he does it anyway and of course they come back to life and Death goes to empty another case of bourbon.

I had those same thoughts as I read Blackest Night.

I never bothered to read the whole Death of Superman arc. When I initially gained interest in American comics all the bad publicity on the internet steered me away. Because of that, I can't say if it was good or bad nor can I say that Superman's death in Infinite Crisis was better written.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

But without out the Death of Superman, we may have never got Shaq as Steel. Wait, I think I may have done that wrong.

No you got it right, its reality that done it wrong...

OT: Well, it was poorly written, beautifully inked though. I liked the idea of Supes really getting his ass handed to him. Not a Clark Kent fan, nor am I a Superman fan. But it was fun reading about his "demise" knowing they'd bring him back. I was an X-Men fan which taught me comics are weird, people never really die. Not even

Spoiler: Really?

Bucky Barnes?!?!?!? I'm still not over him, and that was the longest running Marvel regular who was rightfully killed off and not brought back.

[sub]edit: damn chrome[/sub]

 

[daxterx2005]

I know Superboy and Steel, didn't know there were two others. Rather than wiki-ing it now I'll wait till next week and let Bob tell me about them

 

[JCAll]

I always liked the Death and Funeral of Superman. I think it hit all the right notes, even if Doomsday himself was just a major plot contrivance. Now The Return or Superman and the Reign of the Supermen was kinda crap, but it was the 90s.

 

[Redd the Sock]

I'm kind of forgiving of Doomsday as a plot device. Knightfall would do it worse in the next year getting Batman by the conceit of him not calling for help when overwhelmed. Doomsday was to be established as a character that ONLY Superman could beat, and calling in the Justice League, the New Gods, the Linear Men, Captain Marvel, Dr Fate down to the Titans, Doom Patrol, and the Bat Family would have just lead to more fatalities. It might have meant more if the real League had been a team at the time, but when people say why he didn't use heat vision more, it forgets he did, along with a power ring, (not) Martian Manhunter blasts, and 3 other energy blast users until exhaustion, and all they did was rip his suit.

Not profound, but in a world of hundreds of heroes, kind of necessary, and (only based off the movie version) a bit less preachy about Superman's value.

Short versions: Funeral was too short and kind of botched things with poor focus. Reign was a fun level of bad, and at least gave us Steel, even if my appriciate of him wouldn't come until a few months into his own book.

And don't completely dis the spectator boom. It was bad for the industry, but it was probably the last time creativity, new characters, new IPs, and use of lessor known characters were very openly encouraged. Today you can't get a new IP through Marvel without calling it an Avengers book, and DC in only letting the lessor knowns have titles to keep their "52 books" thing intact.

 

[vallorn]

Hmm, History of Power Rangers from Linkara or this... You know? I'm going to go watch the video from the person who hasn't spent the better part of a week insulting, blaming and screaming at his fanbase on Twitter. I hope The Escapist cut you loose for what you are doing Bob because it's WAY out of line now.

Yeah, really, I gave you a chance after you insulted our intelligence with your E3 coverage video but watching you act exactly like the bullies you once claimed to despise? No thank you.

If anyone is wondering, these are just a few of the tweets from our illustrious Mr Chipman.

Spoiler

<a href=https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/502692856738619392>-Since it's their answer to everything, let's FIND OUT how thick these 4chan/MRA/"true gamer" fucks' skin really is. I bet not so much.
-Y'know what? If this nonsense "scandal" becomes the watershed moment where both devs and ACTUAL journalists plant their and fight back...1/2
-...against these entitled Annie Wilkes-ian INSECTS who've been poisoning the medium and the culture for well over a generation? Good. 2/2

<a href=https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/502939251705937921>-Sigh. Your waifus would be so very, very ashamed of you guys right now...

<a href=https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/502742331414822912>-Heh. Just got told I was trying to hijack gaming, which "isnt mine." Kid, I was gaming when best part of you was running down your pop's leg

<a href=https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/502696166799474688>-Let these brats follow their philosophical forebearers to AM talk radio, or wherever we send evolutionary dead-ends now.

 

[Verlander]

To quote Monty Python, regarding the Civil War event: "Don't. Mention. The war." Good Lord, I hated that. Don't drag The Runaways into this too! I enjoyed their stories well enough without the drunken A-hole Iron Man getting in there messing it up!

Hahaha, agreed. Marvel 101: How to make audiences hate your heroes.

 

[Mr. Clarinet]

Congrats!

Kinda wish there was a mention of All Star Superman. I mean hey that was a cool comic that used Superman's impending demise to do some different things with the character..

 

[Luther Strode]

Jeezz, I remember when I first heard about that show from Bob in one of episodes of EttM. Ehh... Time, i HATE you!

About hero replacements - I liked JP Valley Azrael Batman as much as Batman Beyond. Normal batman is so lame and boring. Superman death was one of my favourite comic book events coz it was few ones of my first comic books.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

I liked Death of Superman. I read the full trade paperback, but the build up was amazing. Doomsday, I thought, worked as a villain. Who can beat Superman? Well, since brains and technology have been worth jack shit, how about a big spiky abomination that can plow through even the toughest defenses like a eviler version of The Juggernaught?

 

[immortalfrieza]

I consider Death of Superman to be my favorite Superman story and one of the few Superman stories to really do him right. For once he's put up against a villain that A. can't be talked down or tricked into defeat and B. can and does beat Superman in a straight fight at his full power. Most other Superman stories have Superman go up against somebody that wouldn't last 5 seconds against him and thus have to have said villain weaken Superman usually with cheap weaknesses done a million times like Kryptonite or the inverse have Superman go up against someone who is so far above his level that he can't possibly win like Mr. Mxyzptlk and have Superman win by outsmarting them or talking them down instead. Putting innocent people in peril to shift the threat is another common thing that's done, which isn't any less lazy because it's just passing the buck and that kinda thing only really works when the Superhero is probably going to be unable to save them in 10 seconds with no effort. Superman is so overpowered he always saves them anyway so that doesn't really give more tension.

The fight against Doomsday in this storyline is one of the few times Superman is up against somebody who is on his level without weakening him and thus can pose a genuine threat the reader can actually buy as being just that, and the writers avoided pulling powers out of nowhere to give to Superman to solve it and had those who could have helped either got their asses kicked or weren't available at the time on top of that. This is something that's sorely lacking in other Superman villains and is the reason why they brought in a new guy instead of putting Superman against one of his own Rouge's Gallery for the hundredth time. Readers would just not buy the idea that these old villains that have been trying to kill Superman forever and failing miserably would pull it off this time.

In short, Superman stories have always had a constant problem with Asspulls, Kryptonite Factors, and making him into an overpowered God Mode Sue (go TVtropes!) Whether one considers the Death of Superman storyline to be good or not, one has to admit the general formula involved is more or less how Superman stories should have always been like.

 

[spoonybard.hahs]

While I won't argue how much 90's comics revolved around speculator boom and stupidity... Wasn't the Death of Superman conceived because Lois and Clark beat the publisher to the wedding? That's what it says in this giant ass hardcover of the entire story I have.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

COMICS... ARE... BORING!

 

[maximara]

Were the comics at least better than the movie "Superman: Doomsday"? I thought that movie was a bit lack-luster, to be honest.

No, if anything the Death story was even more lack-luster then the movie; there is NO connection with Lex Luthor (who was thought to be dead but was really in a cloned body pretending to be his own son....yes it was as wonky as it sounds) or any other of Superman's main foes. As Moviebob says the comics had four would-be Supermen each thought by some to be the "real" deal and as Moviebob says it gets dumber.

The story is fun in a Silver Age kind of way and we got a revisit of sorts in 1998 with Dominus who seemingly split Superman into four eras: Golden Age (Superman: Man of Steel), Silver Age (Adventures of Superman), "Polyester" (Bronze) Age (Superman in Action Comics), and Future (Superman 2999). That was more interesting as it was a nostalgia trip with a twist.

 

[maximara]

I liked Death of Superman. I read the full trade paperback, but the build up was amazing. Doomsday, I thought, worked as a villain. Who can beat Superman? Well, since brains and technology have been worth jack shit, how about a big spiky abomination that can plow through even the toughest defenses like a eviler version of The Juggernaught?

Actually, to anyone familiar with the imaginary tales of the Silver Age the claim "brains and technology have been worth jack shit" is total garbage. Superman vol 1 #149 (November, 1961) case in point: Luthor finally get devious and slowly builds a confidence with Superman to eventually kill him.

In Action_Comics #385-#387 (1970) the Time Trapper does worst then kill Superman-he traps him in the far future and a malfunctioning time bubble has aged Superman 100,000 years. At the end of the story Superman is propelled to the End of Time itself but instead of facing the Time Trapper he relives his life up the point he entered the Time Bubble unable to say or do anything different.

 

[JimB]

I'm going to go watch the video from the person who hasn't spent the better part of a week insulting, blaming and screaming at his fanbase on Twitter.

Not all of his fanbase; just the ones saying things he considers reprehensible. I don't know why anyone would be surprised at his attitude toward what I assume (I cannot access his Twitter as I do not have an account, and am therefore only guessing from context) is people saying horrible things about the Zoey Quinn non-issue, as Mr. Chipman has been perfectly up front about his stance on the matter for some years now.

 

[vallorn]

I'm going to go watch the video from the person who hasn't spent the better part of a week insulting, blaming and screaming at his fanbase on Twitter.

Not all of his fanbase; just the ones saying things he considers reprehensible. I don't know why anyone would be surprised at his attitude toward what I assume (I cannot access his Twitter as I do not have an account, and am therefore only guessing from context) is people saying horrible things about the Zoey Quinn non-issue, as Mr. Chipman has been perfectly up front about his stance on the matter for some years now.

Except most people aren't screaming at Zoe, that 300 page long thread here? They stay away from the personal stuff involved and have just used it as a springboard to look at the close relationships of game journalists and various developers and how some news sites seem to publish things without due research. In fact, Greg Tito actually issued a Mea Culpa in there over being wrong when they reported on the Wizardchan story.

Oh and even /v/ have been civil in this, they used this and gave a charity game jam that Zoe allegedly doxxed $19,000 to promote women game developers and all the profit goes to a charity for colon cancer (this being 4chan they described it as being to 'Chemo Butthurt')

And anyway, the fact that Bob personally finds something reprehensible is no excuse for lashing out in the way he has been on there, He's a figure in the public eye and like any such figure he should be setting an example by being rational and not abusive to people that he disagrees with. After all, it's our clicks, those of his audience, that pay his bills so insulting some of said audience is a surefire way to push people away to places which don't insult them.

 

[JimB]

Except most people aren't screaming at Zoe.

I...didn't say they are, so I'm not sure why you bring that up. Do you think something can only be reprehensible if it's screamed at Ms. Quinn?

Even /v/ have been civil in this.

Uh, okay, but again, not sure what the relevance is here. Did Mr. Chipman specifically accuse /v/ of being uncivil?

The fact that Bob personally finds something reprehensible is no excuse for lashing out in the way he has been on there. He's a figure in the public eye and like any such figure he should be setting an example by being rational and not abusive to people that he disagrees with.

Everyone on Twitter is a public figure, since their Tweets are available for public consumption, so I assume you hold everyone to that same standard.

After all, it's our clicks, those of his audience, that pay his bills so insulting some of said audience is a surefire way to push people away to places which don't insult them.

It would appear Mr. Chipman does not care to have such people included among his clientele.