The Big Picture: Dumping Irony

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ShadowHamster

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Mar 17, 2008
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You know, someone told me transformers were silly after the second movie came out. I forgave the first movie A LOT and convinced myself I enjoyed it, but I didn't, and honestly transformers did a lot for me growing up. I don't get angry at a lot, but some things do anger me, and Mr. Bay has turned me off transformers by missing a big point, a point that can not be summed up with "Come on, it's for kids! Technically, this is a family film man!" which is what my friend was telling me to defend the Transformers 2. That, and how could I NOT like it "Ironically", apparently the way I obviously loved the toys I still collected.

I've always unabashedly loved the transformers. I outgrew other things like G.I.Joe, He-Man, and believe it or not, Rainbow Brite, but NOT Transformers! They were just my thing, rather than just be an action figure where I HAD to play with them beating each other up in awesome epic stories I made up, I could just appreciate not only that they turned into something else, but HOW. I loved how they came together to be something else entirely.

As I grew up, I grew into more complex things that did the same, like Models of cars, and Gundam Models too. These hobbies often cost more, and once you were finished, you were finished and just had a thing to display. They still didn't sum up what made transformers awesome. I still collect them, and I still love them JUST FOR THAT.

But then there was the writing, which while it may not have been GOOD, did things for me that nothing else could have because of WHEN I watched it. It introduced me to concepts such as the villain who dreams of being the bigger villain, who is weaker but an opportunist. Heroes that were so big they couldn't fall, but then they do! Tragedy was introduced to my young mind through transformers, and this is something that can probably only be appreciated by kids who grew up at the same time as me. That being said, I think everyone has some "transformers" as well, and when someone opens up and shows me something they love like that, that is what I listen for. How did this "silly little thing" change someones perspective for good. I have NEVER loved transformers ironically, and I have NEVER feared that someone might make me feel bad for it. Rather, I'd love for them to try, because they aren't winning that one.

That being said, this is why I hate this "Irony" trend. I originally hated it for that god awful song from an artist I otherwise don't hate(but it's a really really really bad song!), but it has since grown to this. Because pretty much any generation that wasn't raised in the 70s(yes I'll include 80s AND 90s kids in this one) is supposed to be desensitized, sarcastic, ironic, and aloof, then we don't care when people drag that which is precious to us through the mud, and when we put up any complaint, we get "relax, it's for kids!".

Well you know what, SO WAS THE ORIGINAL! And that is why I LOVED IT! This new shit isn't that old stuff, and I DON'T LOVE IT! I FUCKING HATE IT!
 

Aitamen

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Dec 6, 2011
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Yeah, The guilty pleasure thing doesn't make any sense to me, and the subversion of that is, at it's heart, what geekdom *is*. While other groups define themselves by what their peers like, we define our peers by what we like, which, to me, makes a helluva lot more sense.
 

InvisibleMan

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Mar 26, 2009
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Yeah, you know why we liked all that bad stuff from the 80s? Because we were 10 years old (give or take five to ten more years)!! We simply didn't know better... But the people who created all that stuff were a lot older and did know better and did not care.

I see a lot more love and dedication to the entertainment products done today by that generation that grew up in the 80s, even when based on something that really stunk even back then!
 

Coreless

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Aug 19, 2011
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TripleDaddy said:
Challenge Accepted.

Chuck Norris movie that I like: Lone Wolf McQuade
YES, F**K YES...Thank you sir you took the words right out of my mouth. Sorry Bob but just because you think Chuck is terrible and no one should like him isn't going to stop me from enjoying the awesomeness that is Chuck Norris movies. I am going to keep on loving Chuck, Seagal, Stallone, Arnold, Lundgren, Rutger and all the other countless ridiculous 80s action stars and if you dont like it then you can eat my.... (yea I wont finish that line)

 

Gatx

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Jul 7, 2011
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This reminds me of how when I was little and I brought up a thing that was unpopular when talking to my friends and they would say "Ew, you actually WATCH that?" to which the go to response was "Just to see how dumb it was!"

MB202 said:
I never understood the use of irony... Like how the Hell can you tell if something's being ironic instead of just playing it all straight? I never could tell. Nor can I tell when someone's being sarcastic with me... sometimes... That makes me hate irony, or when people try to use irony and fail because nobody realized it was supposed to be ironic. Hell, what does irony even TRULY mean, anyway...
Whether or not its intentionally ironic or not is irrelevant in this case, this video was about enjoying something ironically. It's how percieve it that makes your enjoyment of it ironic or genuine.
 

ungothicdove

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Nov 30, 2007
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BigTuk said:
And here I thought I was the only one that remembered Hawk the Slayer.

Yeah Irony is cool but the reason for the defence is because strangely enough is because of the previous generation. They're still around and still holding the keys to the stuff we want to rise in to. Heck My parents still ask when I'm going to 'grow out of video games'.

But it's changing, I mean look at the Brony movement, (but not for long). These things had a big part in our collective childhood and we're not about to let them go. If we did we really wood be the cynical slacker generation we were predicted to be.
"I punched a bloke in the face once for saying Hawk the Slayer was rubbish."

I watched Hawk the Slayer based on Bilbo Bagshot's recommendation. I liked it in an unironic way and I usually don't care for 80's low budget fare.
 

Vale

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May 1, 2013
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Huh.
"Crime" is such an interesting thing.
Over here, it's unlawful to refer to the extreme right as "neonazis", because they hold a bunch of power in parliament and are popular.
And it is not illegal to pirate whatever music, films, or software you want from the internet.
You also get to drink at the age of 18.
People should keep in mind that laws are completely arbitrary.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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This is what I tell people who enjoy 'Twilight', as long as you know a good portion of it is proberly not good for you then why the fuck do you care what others have to say? Its like enjoying sweets, you will proberly get diabetes if you eat to many but as long as you know this than people can't argue, its your choice.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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Ukomba said:
Worgen said:
I think chunk norris's popularity is the name, hes got a very recognizable name.

I also think that irony like your talking about might be diminishing. I mean we have a big population of people who are willing to wholeheartedly embrace this.

When pretty much anything that is geared towards girls or children is seen as something that you can only enjoy 'ironically'.
That really did a lot to damage the Irony requirement for liking things. If people can really like mlp, why not Adventure Time? Gravity Falls is awesome, Invader Zim deserved more seasons, I will wear that classic Voltron shirt, ext.

In the same way I think it hurt Irony heavy shows like Family Guy. Not really Robot Chicken since that seems to embrace nostalgia rather than mock it.
I don't think Invader Zim ever wore the 'ironic' badge, I think its shear freaking weirdness/randomness/gross factor made it enjoyable for older fans, in the same way as 'Ren & Stimpy'. However, those other shows are a real slap in the face of the ironic argument, they're just legit good (although I have never seen Voltron so I can't really argue on its behalf).
 

Farthing

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Jan 28, 2012
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I've actually never heard someone say they appreciate something ironically. I've heard people say they like the unpredictability of a terrible media construct, or that they enjoy something on the basis of nostalgia while acknowledging that other people may find it objectively bad. These positions are quite healthy to take as they can lead to a deeper discussion of what the person actually enjoys about a show and why, or why a person might find a particular construct unpredictable and what that says about the creators of the show in relation to the person.

More often the result is an agreement to disagree in the form of "That's bad and you should feel bad", but it leaves the conversational options open.
 

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
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I find the best practice is to love irony, but not to love things ironically. Though, I suppose it's possible to love those who love things ironically. It might become a scenario that leads to actual, delicious, hilarious irony at their expense.
 

Ukomba

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Oct 14, 2010
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PunkRex said:
Ukomba said:
That really did a lot to damage the Irony requirement for liking things. If people can really like mlp, why not Adventure Time? Gravity Falls is awesome, Invader Zim deserved more seasons, I will wear that classic Voltron shirt, ext.

In the same way I think it hurt Irony heavy shows like Family Guy. Not really Robot Chicken since that seems to embrace nostalgia rather than mock it.
I don't think Invader Zim ever wore the 'ironic' badge, I think its shear freaking weirdness/randomness/gross factor made it enjoyable for older fans, in the same way as 'Ren & Stimpy'. However, those other shows are a real slap in the face of the ironic argument, they're just legit good (although I have never seen Voltron so I can't really argue on its behalf).
Not what I meant. I just mean it's no longer seen as strange to say you like a Nickelodeon cartoon. You can like Invader Zim because it funny and the animation is great. Where before it seemed more like, Invader Zim can be liked because it's a perversely dark kids show. You no longer have to be emo or goth to like it. You don't have to be a Girl to like MLP, you don't have to be a kid to like any cartoon you like.

That's another reason I think it hurts shows like Family Guy and other 'Adult' cartoons that were on the 'safe to like' list.

Older Voltron is pretty good in an old Anime style. The Newest Voltron isn't terrible. The New Thundercats is really good too. So is the new Ninja Turtles.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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Mar 13, 2012
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Everyone has gotten way past the irony excuse about the things they like. Teenagers, for example, state that they like "nerdy" things because they want to fit in with others or because they really do. Nobody says they enjoy things "ironically". They either say they like it or they don't. Most of this stuff is crap anyways, but like what you like. (That's a good phrase.)
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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I knew Chuck Norris was in a bunch of terrible B movies, but holy shit I had no idea he had his own animated series. ...and I kinda liked it that way.
 

Darth_Payn

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Aug 5, 2009
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YES!!! Thank you for this video, Bob, and I couldn't agree more! I just got back from Fanime in San Jose, CA this past weekend, and it is an irony-free zone. Everybody there likes what they like and show no shame about it. If you spent as much time and money on your costume as they did, of course that shows how big a fan you are! I always associated liking something "ironically" with meaning you really hate it, and there's no room for haters in Fanime. When you're there, you're there to watch videos, attend panels, shop for artbooks, figurines, DVDs, what-have-you, play games, and you damn well have fun. Bob, I think you'd love it there.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Mr. Q said:
Damn straight.

OT: I don't get the "ironic" thing anyway. While laid up with worse than normal back problems I've been watching a lot of Power Rangers. And despite knowing they're not good shows, fuck it. They're fun. I enjoy rubber suit monsters and teenagers with attitudes fighting them. They're even better when the shows embrace the cheese, in fact. I don't think this is ironic; I am sincerely enjoying these shows, and somewhat because they're bad, but more because there's something earnestly endearing about them to me.

Just like what you like, people. Enjoying something "ironically" has always sounded so ridiculously douchey and transparent.
 

Bbleds

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Sep 6, 2011
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This was kind of the episode I have been wanting for a while, but was not as direct as I want it to be. I really would like to see Bob's perspective about enjoying and participating in things associated with the "nerdy" or "geeky" stigma, and why there exists such a stigma in the first place. My little personal anecdote was just last night I was talking to my friend about how we should buy some Magic decks and have some fun that I wasn't allowed to have as a kid due to growing up in a home with religious parents who heard that they were satanic. He thought that was an awesome idea but he was embarrassed to be see buying them. I know that comics, Magic, anime, and anything related used to be mainly associated with strange antisocial people who do nothing but what they are obsessed with and that they tend to be physically unfit, unattractive, and lonely. While I am sure people like that exist that is hardly the truth as a whole; furthermore comic characters are now some of the most popular and well known characters thanks mainly to the movies. So I would like to see a well thought out theory why it seems the many people that loved the Avengers movie would be embarrassed to walk into their local comic shop to get an Avengers book.
 

Don Reba

Bishop and Councilor of War
Jun 2, 2009
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I can only assume that Movie Bob is no longer with us. Poor, poor Bob. You had to play with fire.