The Big Picture: Gender Games
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Recommended Videos
At least more serious games can do it right.
See Demon's Souls: All Unisex Armor sets look basically the same on Male and Female, apart from the obvious exception to the breast plate and crotch. Even the Female only sets are actually practical.
However!
See World of Warcraft: Many Plate Mail legs on a male Blood Elf, look like actual pants... The same Plate Mail legs on a female only go half way up the leg, have a gap, and leave a plate mail G-String..
See Demon's Souls: All Unisex Armor sets look basically the same on Male and Female, apart from the obvious exception to the breast plate and crotch. Even the Female only sets are actually practical.
However!
See World of Warcraft: Many Plate Mail legs on a male Blood Elf, look like actual pants... The same Plate Mail legs on a female only go half way up the leg, have a gap, and leave a plate mail G-String..
Some more examples.
Last night I checked out the demo for Rochard on PSN. On the menu screen there it was. Some fat miner in a gruff but comicly loveable pose, and a female in coveralls in a model position. I dont know if I will ever be able to unsee these now that I am aware of it.
A while ago I was playing Enslaved. There is a character animation when Monkey lifts the girl (cante recall her name) but you lift her onto a platform or whatever and she starts up and strikes this rediculous pose. Thrusts her hip way out, hand on hip, back arced, head slightly tilted. I didnt notice it till my wife walked by say it and said "What the hell?" Thats the only reason I remember it was she was pissed at it. It makes sense now. In the middle of dangerous fire fights this girl still finds time to stop everything and pose for the camera.
Last night I checked out the demo for Rochard on PSN. On the menu screen there it was. Some fat miner in a gruff but comicly loveable pose, and a female in coveralls in a model position. I dont know if I will ever be able to unsee these now that I am aware of it.
A while ago I was playing Enslaved. There is a character animation when Monkey lifts the girl (cante recall her name) but you lift her onto a platform or whatever and she starts up and strikes this rediculous pose. Thrusts her hip way out, hand on hip, back arced, head slightly tilted. I didnt notice it till my wife walked by say it and said "What the hell?" Thats the only reason I remember it was she was pissed at it. It makes sense now. In the middle of dangerous fire fights this girl still finds time to stop everything and pose for the camera.
Gentlemen:
Here's an idea.
Next time you see a video game female posed in a particularly sexualised way, try imitating that pose yourself. Stick your arse out, arch your back, twist, bend over, whatever.
See how effing uncomfortable, impractical and absurd you feel. Do you feel embarassed or stupid, going into those poses that are solely there for sexual titillation? That is how uncomfortable, impractical and absurd most women feel in those poses. That is how little those games think of us. That is what they tell us we are worth.
If there is ever a time you want to say "but video games are supposed to be fun", ask yourself, "fun for whom, exactly?"
If you want to enjoy sexist shite, enjoy sexist shite, but don't pretend it's not sexist shite and don't tell anyone who is bothered by it that their feelings aren't valid.
Here's an idea.
Next time you see a video game female posed in a particularly sexualised way, try imitating that pose yourself. Stick your arse out, arch your back, twist, bend over, whatever.
See how effing uncomfortable, impractical and absurd you feel. Do you feel embarassed or stupid, going into those poses that are solely there for sexual titillation? That is how uncomfortable, impractical and absurd most women feel in those poses. That is how little those games think of us. That is what they tell us we are worth.
If there is ever a time you want to say "but video games are supposed to be fun", ask yourself, "fun for whom, exactly?"
If you want to enjoy sexist shite, enjoy sexist shite, but don't pretend it's not sexist shite and don't tell anyone who is bothered by it that their feelings aren't valid.
I'm guessing you've never seen this one before, people:
Or this one:
http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files/costumes/19/46841/tumblr_lmkvand64e1qa1zvj.gif
Or her:
http://www.total-manga.com/images/Artwork/FR-11-4816-B/cg-artwork-de-lightning.jpg
Or her:
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/universe3zx/images/e/e9/X23001_cov.jpg
I can keep going. There are plenty of women in games or media who are not the "Look at this sexy pose!" X-23 looks like she's going to rip out and eat your kidney's. Lightning looks like a woman who is strong and calculated enough to deal with problems thrown at her. Atlas is a soldier and doesn't use her sex to define herself, but rather her strength.
The Boss.... I shouldn't have to explain that. She is about the definition of a strong woman who is sure as hell not a sex object. The women in games are there, it's just that the bigger the chest is the more people tend to notice it. Bob, I get your point. And you're right to a length. However, I will be the first man who will say that I am sick of men being treated the same way that when are and exposed and exploited for their bodies.
It's not true some may say? I respond with this:
Or this one:
http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files/costumes/19/46841/tumblr_lmkvand64e1qa1zvj.gif
Or her:
http://www.total-manga.com/images/Artwork/FR-11-4816-B/cg-artwork-de-lightning.jpg
Or her:
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/universe3zx/images/e/e9/X23001_cov.jpg
I can keep going. There are plenty of women in games or media who are not the "Look at this sexy pose!" X-23 looks like she's going to rip out and eat your kidney's. Lightning looks like a woman who is strong and calculated enough to deal with problems thrown at her. Atlas is a soldier and doesn't use her sex to define herself, but rather her strength.
The Boss.... I shouldn't have to explain that. She is about the definition of a strong woman who is sure as hell not a sex object. The women in games are there, it's just that the bigger the chest is the more people tend to notice it. Bob, I get your point. And you're right to a length. However, I will be the first man who will say that I am sick of men being treated the same way that when are and exposed and exploited for their bodies.
It's not true some may say? I respond with this:
It kind of seems like another double standards episode.
Cheesecake art is bad horrible and men should be neutered if their flights of fancy should take a sexual turn. Beefcake art, oh that's okay. A female video game character takes a sexy pose and oh that's so horrible and sexist, but a male video game character can have the open shirt, perfect muscle tone, that hansom face, perfect hair and posed in some way that men think women find sexy and no problem.
Put a leather boy hat on some video game characters, crank up "It's Raining Men", and then tell me it's only the girls that have a sexual take on them.
Plus who's the biggest offender? Fighting games. Yet in fighting games the female characters are the quick, light, and nimble characters. Some of the poses that didn't say something to Bob kind of say okay this character is the one to play if I'm looking for speed and mobility. There was a time when saying cat like grace, speed, and agility wasn't an insult.
Just kind of seems to attack cheesecake as making all games and gamers bad is to kind of ignore how far women have come in gaming. Back when I first starting gaming women were only in the game to be rescued by the male character or at best you might have one token female character in a fighting game. Now female characters can be the main character and it's just not a token female character in fighting games. Yes there is still far to go but it's been much much worse and things are improving even if sometimes slowly.
Cheesecake art is bad horrible and men should be neutered if their flights of fancy should take a sexual turn. Beefcake art, oh that's okay. A female video game character takes a sexy pose and oh that's so horrible and sexist, but a male video game character can have the open shirt, perfect muscle tone, that hansom face, perfect hair and posed in some way that men think women find sexy and no problem.
Put a leather boy hat on some video game characters, crank up "It's Raining Men", and then tell me it's only the girls that have a sexual take on them.
Plus who's the biggest offender? Fighting games. Yet in fighting games the female characters are the quick, light, and nimble characters. Some of the poses that didn't say something to Bob kind of say okay this character is the one to play if I'm looking for speed and mobility. There was a time when saying cat like grace, speed, and agility wasn't an insult.
Just kind of seems to attack cheesecake as making all games and gamers bad is to kind of ignore how far women have come in gaming. Back when I first starting gaming women were only in the game to be rescued by the male character or at best you might have one token female character in a fighting game. Now female characters can be the main character and it's just not a token female character in fighting games. Yes there is still far to go but it's been much much worse and things are improving even if sometimes slowly.
The problem I have with the episode is, you can agree with pretty much everything Bob says (which I do), but I do not agree this is actually a problem. Yes it is an indication of both society and the state of the industry, but therefore not something one should rally against. Neither is it the fault of male teenagers that they like games and women both and enjoy them in their games in a specific way. None of this is demeaning to women in any way, if a women takes it as such, she basically gives the character designer more credit then they should have.
I think this is basically what is going on, a woman complains and the boys basically just hear they want to change their fun. And let's be clear, that is exactly what is implied. Therefore how can anyone be surprised that said boys (who are not even adults) tend to 'not agree'.
Tbh it sometimes pisses me off as well, especially since a feminist can pick out much more obvious problems in today's world. Sexualization of women, is not very different from commercials with sex in them or women's magazines talking almost exclusively about sex. I don't see the feminist angle, women are not reduced in their equal rights in any way. Men are also usually portrayed in a very specific way, just because it is not sexual doesn't mean it is different.
I think this is basically what is going on, a woman complains and the boys basically just hear they want to change their fun. And let's be clear, that is exactly what is implied. Therefore how can anyone be surprised that said boys (who are not even adults) tend to 'not agree'.
Tbh it sometimes pisses me off as well, especially since a feminist can pick out much more obvious problems in today's world. Sexualization of women, is not very different from commercials with sex in them or women's magazines talking almost exclusively about sex. I don't see the feminist angle, women are not reduced in their equal rights in any way. Men are also usually portrayed in a very specific way, just because it is not sexual doesn't mean it is different.
i remember back in the stone age enjoying tomb raider 2 but totally not understanding the controversy.
it was a handful of polygons with low res textures you had to steer away from spike pits and equally shit looking tigers.
when I tried to play the new ones by crystal dynamics tho the jiggle physics extravaganza and all the pointless stretching she kept doing made me feel really uncomfortable, i didn?t feel it was women who were being discriminated against, it felt more like men were being cynically exploited for their desire to see something approximating an attractive woman bouncing all over the place getting wet every five minutes while the camera is staring right up laras arse.
Exactly where are you supposed to look if someone comes in and starts talking to you?, if you don?t pause shes gonna start doing that stretching bullshit again.
it has to be close to being caught playing guitar hero alone in embarrassment factor.
on the other hand tho who wants to play a third person game staring at the back of mr/mrs average for hours and hours of gameplay, on our modern electronic sparkle rendering boxes don?t we WANT to see something exceptional or even physically impossible? I'd hate game characters to become as dull and realistic as the grey/brown dystopias they have to wander about in, just to please any bunch of moral crusaders.
I want moderation, middle ground where gaming acknowledges the existence of bras for stopping the fairer sexes tits getting in the way and where all the men arent depicted as roided up thugs with veins popping out of their armour plated neanderthal brows.
it was a handful of polygons with low res textures you had to steer away from spike pits and equally shit looking tigers.
when I tried to play the new ones by crystal dynamics tho the jiggle physics extravaganza and all the pointless stretching she kept doing made me feel really uncomfortable, i didn?t feel it was women who were being discriminated against, it felt more like men were being cynically exploited for their desire to see something approximating an attractive woman bouncing all over the place getting wet every five minutes while the camera is staring right up laras arse.
Exactly where are you supposed to look if someone comes in and starts talking to you?, if you don?t pause shes gonna start doing that stretching bullshit again.
it has to be close to being caught playing guitar hero alone in embarrassment factor.
on the other hand tho who wants to play a third person game staring at the back of mr/mrs average for hours and hours of gameplay, on our modern electronic sparkle rendering boxes don?t we WANT to see something exceptional or even physically impossible? I'd hate game characters to become as dull and realistic as the grey/brown dystopias they have to wander about in, just to please any bunch of moral crusaders.
I want moderation, middle ground where gaming acknowledges the existence of bras for stopping the fairer sexes tits getting in the way and where all the men arent depicted as roided up thugs with veins popping out of their armour plated neanderthal brows.
Bob: "We assume most of our audience are heterosexual teenage boys"
But isn't most of their audience actually heterosexual teenage boys?
But isn't most of their audience actually heterosexual teenage boys?
'If this is your attempt at being edgy and reaching out the huge female comic audience out here then I look forward to when this crap collapses around you so someone who gets it can take your place. We're looking for good stories and great heroes. This just isn't it.' - Michele Lee
Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. In fact I wish that would happen. The problem with comics industry is that all the movers and shakers of the industry are joyless comic nerds. You need some people who are detached but still respect the medium.
Wait, DC just gave a response. 'Read the rating and fuck off' Good job, DC.
Also can they please stop making Superman a prick? They still write him as uptight, jerk off 50's dad.
Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. In fact I wish that would happen. The problem with comics industry is that all the movers and shakers of the industry are joyless comic nerds. You need some people who are detached but still respect the medium.
Wait, DC just gave a response. 'Read the rating and fuck off' Good job, DC.
Also can they please stop making Superman a prick? They still write him as uptight, jerk off 50's dad.
You know, we've been hearing a lot over time about some basic problems with attitudes and perceptions of things in the gaming community from Movie Bob, Jim Sterling, Yahtzee, Daniel(Extra Credit; what happened to that series?), and many others elsewhere. However, all the verbiage and pontification, at least to me, seems to all come down to one singular message to which the game community and the game industry is just so highly resistant: GROW THE F--- UP, AND GET OVER YOURSELVES! Of course, I could extend this to the techie community as well, and there is a significant overlap of individuals between both these communities.
I think we'd sooner see a rebirth of ultra popular JRPGs, action/adventure hack/slash games and the fall of brown military shooters before we see this shift in the portrayal of women in games.
Why do I say that? Because neither will happen in the US. Ever. The industry only cares about designing a game and selling it to "everyone". The days of smaller demographics getting attention are waning and will soon be gone. This means that it will exist solely to further pander to the 12 to 40-something year old shooter fan while further ostracizing fans of in any other demographics based on the notion that mostly everyone will play a game that's alright assuming it's the only game readily avilable and that anyone who won't play it is small enough of a number that they could die for all the publisher cares.
So, basically, what I'm saying is because gaming has become such a large, money grabbing industry that embraces mediocrity over verity there's no financial reason for them to give a damn and so they won't. Nothing will change because it's cheaper not to care.
CAPITALISM HO!
Why do I say that? Because neither will happen in the US. Ever. The industry only cares about designing a game and selling it to "everyone". The days of smaller demographics getting attention are waning and will soon be gone. This means that it will exist solely to further pander to the 12 to 40-something year old shooter fan while further ostracizing fans of in any other demographics based on the notion that mostly everyone will play a game that's alright assuming it's the only game readily avilable and that anyone who won't play it is small enough of a number that they could die for all the publisher cares.
So, basically, what I'm saying is because gaming has become such a large, money grabbing industry that embraces mediocrity over verity there's no financial reason for them to give a damn and so they won't. Nothing will change because it's cheaper not to care.
CAPITALISM HO!
Why are the Mars and Venus symbols upside down in this video?
To be fair Venus is only about 120 degrees of instead of the full 180 degrees off that the Mars symbol is, but they're still backwards in every single shot.
To be fair Venus is only about 120 degrees of instead of the full 180 degrees off that the Mars symbol is, but they're still backwards in every single shot.