The Big Picture: Hollywood History 101: Part 3

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scott91575

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hermes200 said:
Hungry Donner said:
I'm curious to see if the gaming industry goes through this same phase in the next 5-10 years.
I was thinking the same thing. After all, we are about to get to an age were adults making games have experience them for most of their life (although I guess the bar for entry is higher for games than for movies)

I find this series of episodes quite fascinating. Not that I didn't know some of this stuff, but its really good to see it in such an orderly fashion.
I'm not sure I agree with entry in gaming as being higher than movies. With so many different gaming outlets (consoles, computers, handhelds, phones, etc.) a person can create an interesting game with little resources. There are a handful of movies that did that, but even then it took tens of thousands of dollars in most cases (heck, even hundreds of thousands of dollars is considered low budget for movies). Then it would take years for them to be distributed. For games, there are indie develops that can make a game with little capital and manpower. Sure, you won't find the next great fps multiplayer come out of an indie developer, but you have already seen highly rated games like Limbo, Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, World of Goo, etc. made on shoe string budgets. Distributors, especially digital ones, are much easier to find to sell one of these games than getting movie theaters to show a movie.

Sure, there are outlets to show movies over the web and DVD's. Yet those tend to be really low budget and very poor quality compared to indie games. In fact, some independent games are much better than the majority of major studio games. Yes, that happens with movies too, but every single year you can find a really good low budget video game. I can't really say the same for movies, at least ones that are readily available to people like they are with video games and done with a similar budget (tens of thousands of dollars).
 

scott91575

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SpiderJerusalem said:
Urh said:
It was my understanding that Lucas' dream was in fact to do a remake of Flash Gordon, but he couldn't because Dino de Laurentiis had already got his hands on the film rights. Also, after having read some of the early drafts of Star Wars, I can actually understand why Lucas' colleagues had some misgivings as to whether or not the film would work. Heck, Fox were having so much trouble getting Star Wars in cinemas that they initially had to resort to block booking (which had been illegal for nearly 30 years) to get it on screens. When you add to that the budget blowouts (a rather large chunk of change was spent on SFX shots that Lucas ended up discarding), and it's kind of a wonder that Star Wars was the big hit that it turned out to be.
This is true and is one of the numerous things left out or skewed to match Bob's view of this "big picture".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this is wikipedia lite at best and I'm constantly stunned why this is being lauded as anything but lazy moneymaking. Seriously, it's not informative, new or in any way a BIG Picture of anything except Bob's hideously askew view of the big evil Hollywood. I'm consistently surprised Escapist continues to fund this stuff.
I don't really see anything that he is saying as really skewed to this point. I am not really sure what you are expecting here. You say it's wiki lite, and then state it's skewed. So is it a new viewpoint you hate or regurgitation of something old?

He is just throwing out movie history here, and much of what he has talked about has been discussed before and agreed upon in many circles. Yet is history class just wiki lite? What do you expect, some new information in something like this? I doubt Bob is privy to information that has not already been published. Do you expect Bob to be throwing out bombshells in something he is calling movie history 101? It's seems from the title he is putting out there what should be expected...A basic history of movie making done in his allotted time. I am sure there are plenty of people who come here not aware of this stuff, and it may pique their interest to look into it more.

It's no real secret movie sales have stagnated and even declined in the past decade. I am not sure what you want. Would you like someone to tell you everything is great with movies? I don't even think Hollywood thinks that, and consumers are becoming more jaded with movies. As Bob has shown, this has happened before.

Bob's displeasure with much of Hollywood is being mirrored by the consumer, and as we have seen in the past Hollywood is slow to react when it's run by large conglomerates.
 

scott91575

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TheRocketeer said:
MovieBob, you've often pointed out how a great movie- like Star Wars- occasionally starts new trends, popularizes a school of thought, or reshapes the industry around them. Sometimes this is primarily what made the movie great, even more so than the film itself.

But what are some films that did the opposite, features that weren't just bad films by their own merits, but had far-reaching negative effects on cinema as an art and an industry, or society at large?

What film bears the most deplorable legacy in movie history?
Anything involving Michael Bay.
 

Nomanslander

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2nd Golden Age of cinema that it was! Since the 90s when I became a teen and got fed up of the Tom Cruise Mission Impossibles and Michael Bay Armageddons , I started discovering these masterpieces like Taxi Driver, Network, and Dog's Day Afternoon.

Now 20 years later I can still honestly say nothing comes close...NOTHING!
 

Urh

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scott91575 said:
TheRocketeer said:
MovieBob, you've often pointed out how a great movie- like Star Wars- occasionally starts new trends, popularizes a school of thought, or reshapes the industry around them. Sometimes this is primarily what made the movie great, even more so than the film itself.

But what are some films that did the opposite, features that weren't just bad films by their own merits, but had far-reaching negative effects on cinema as an art and an industry, or society at large?

What film bears the most deplorable legacy in movie history?
Anything involving Michael Bay.
Hey, don't forget Uwe Boll.
 

Arcanist

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hermes200 said:
[(although I guess the bar for entry is higher for games than for movies)
Not necessarily. For somebody with an idea and some programming know-how, the indie scene has never been easier to get into. Services like Steam have made it almost absurdly easy to get a game out on the market.

The triple-A industry, on the other hand, will face some serious problems going forward. Competition with casual games for mainstream markets and indie games for more hardcore audiences will really force them to pick one to survive - they can't afford to pander to both of us at the same time for much longer.
 

MB202

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Wait, making a sequel was thought to be distasteful? HA, who'd of thought?!
 

scott91575

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SpiderJerusalem said:
scott91575 said:
SpiderJerusalem said:
Urh said:
It was my understanding that Lucas' dream was in fact to do a remake of Flash Gordon, but he couldn't because Dino de Laurentiis had already got his hands on the film rights. Also, after having read some of the early drafts of Star Wars, I can actually understand why Lucas' colleagues had some misgivings as to whether or not the film would work. Heck, Fox were having so much trouble getting Star Wars in cinemas that they initially had to resort to block booking (which had been illegal for nearly 30 years) to get it on screens. When you add to that the budget blowouts (a rather large chunk of change was spent on SFX shots that Lucas ended up discarding), and it's kind of a wonder that Star Wars was the big hit that it turned out to be.
This is true and is one of the numerous things left out or skewed to match Bob's view of this "big picture".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this is wikipedia lite at best and I'm constantly stunned why this is being lauded as anything but lazy moneymaking. Seriously, it's not informative, new or in any way a BIG Picture of anything except Bob's hideously askew view of the big evil Hollywood. I'm consistently surprised Escapist continues to fund this stuff.
I don't really see anything that he is saying as really skewed to this point. I am not really sure what you are expecting here. You say it's wiki lite, and then state it's skewed. So is it a new viewpoint you hate or regurgitation of something old?

He is just throwing out movie history here, and much of what he has talked about has been discussed before and agreed upon in many circles. Yet is history class just wiki lite? What do you expect, some new information in something like this? I doubt Bob is privy to information that has not already been published. Do you expect Bob to be throwing out bombshells in something he is calling movie history 101? It's seems from the title he is putting out there what should be expected...A basic history of movie making done in his allotted time. I am sure there are plenty of people who come here not aware of this stuff, and it may pique their interest to look into it more.

It's no real secret movie sales have stagnated and even declined in the past decade. I am not sure what you want. Would you like someone to tell you everything is great with movies? I don't even think Hollywood thinks that, and consumers are becoming more jaded with movies. As Bob has shown, this has happened before.

Bob's displeasure with much of Hollywood is being mirrored by the consumer, and as we have seen in the past Hollywood is slow to react when it's run by large conglomerates.
This part, like the previous before it, is filled with the kind egregious film school idolizing of the late 60's, early 70's filmmaking, painting the studios like an excessively corrupt empire, dropping information on numerous places to what led to the ultimate recessions in film, what brought it back up, and consistently drawing an image of saintly directors arriving from geek-fed neighborhoods to save cinema.

I'm guessing that this is going to continue to the "oh the 90's sucked and the studios are wrong, blahdiblahblahblahihatemichaelbay" shtick that Bob keeps pushing.

And movie sales haven't stagnated, that's another illusion that people are trying to pull. They've pretty much kept a consistent rise over the years, facing the same crisis' that the other economies have as well. The writers strike didn't help either, but from that there came numerous great films that wouldn't have come at another time.

I worded the Wikipedia-lite thing wrong, I'm sorry, I meant to point out that it's info that can be gotten with a glance from that site, then twisted and turned into a badly misinformed point and presented like Bob wants to view himself; as a resident expert, while all he's doing is the Glenn Beck type of reportage fit for maybe Harry Knowles, but is way below the standard of The Escapist.
yeah, no stagnation or decline there....

http://www.the-numbers.com/market/

Oh wait, there is, and it started in 2002. If I seem to recall there was not an economic downturn until 2008. If you are going to call someone out for skewing info, you probably shouldn't do it yourself. The only thing that has changed in the movie industry is they charge more (often by implementing gimmicks, one of Bob's big points). They are not winning people over with the current formula, and in fact losing people.

Honestly, have you not read a single movie sales article in the last 5 years? Movie makers have inflated prices, and then state revenue is up. Yet for actual ticket sales, they are approaching mid 90's levels (and the current population is 20% higher, which means the percentage decline is even greater). That practice (driven by major corporations and share holders) along with the product they are throwing out there is driving people away from the movie theater. They can only milk the die hards in order to boost revenues so much. It's a failing business model used to satiate share holders in order to save their own ass, but in the long run it's a failing model.
 

CleverCover

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So for a golden age of movies to be made, or of anything for that matter, the genre has to be on death's door and willing for anything to bring it back?

Hmmm....
 

Raso719

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The really ugly stuff is my favorite. I've really enjoyed this little series of yours and can't wait to see what dirt you cover in the next installment.
 

Alcamonic

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Thanks a lot Bob. I really enjoy your work with The Big Picture and Escape to the movies.
Makes my day when I get some new nerdy material <3. Patiently awaiting your next work!
 

UbarElite

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Hmmm...this scenario is sounding really familiar...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2821-Ludus-Florentis

Could be a lot of good to look forward to.
 

mikev7.0

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SpiderJerusalem said:
Urh said:
It was my understanding that Lucas' dream was in fact to do a remake of Flash Gordon, but he couldn't because Dino de Laurentiis had already got his hands on the film rights. Also, after having read some of the early drafts of Star Wars, I can actually understand why Lucas' colleagues had some misgivings as to whether or not the film would work. Heck, Fox were having so much trouble getting Star Wars in cinemas that they initially had to resort to block booking (which had been illegal for nearly 30 years) to get it on screens. When you add to that the budget blowouts (a rather large chunk of change was spent on SFX shots that Lucas ended up discarding), and it's kind of a wonder that Star Wars was the big hit that it turned out to be.
This is true and is one of the numerous things left out or skewed to match Bob's view of this "big picture".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this is wikipedia lite at best and I'm constantly stunned why this is being lauded as anything but lazy moneymaking. Seriously, it's not informative, new or in any way a BIG Picture of anything except Bob's hideously askew view of the big evil Hollywood. I'm consistently surprised Escapist continues to fund this stuff.
That's okay there's some of us that are surprised to find information of this quality outside of Extra Credits on the Escapist period. I for one feel fortunate to have it here. If not for this and the aforementioned Extra Credits, I wouldn't be here, period.

An' if this "write your own ad" captcha stuff keeps up those two shows, even though great infotainment, may not be enough to keep me bothering.

OT: Of course, as always, great show Moviebob.
 

RJ Dalton

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MovieBob said:
So, this is fascinating and insightful. What you said about the movie studios, how their inflexibility leading to the collapse of the early studio system allowed new blood to rise and try things that had never been done before; do you think it possible that what is happening with the studios pretty much doing the same thing now could possibly lead to that happening again?