The Big Picture: In Defense of Nostalgia

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Avatar Roku

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CM156 said:
Jay Fakename said:
CM156 said:
Varya said:
CM156 said:
Agayek said:
Honestly, I couldn't care less for gay marriage, but I've never heard an argument against it that was any stronger than "God said so!", and that's simply not a compelling reason. I'd like your take on it, since you clearly disagree.
Actually, I've heard a secular argument:

Money. If we allow more people to get married, that means more people will get devorced, which takes up the courts time and money. And that also means that if they file together, they pay less in taxes. So we are left with a net loss.

Which means we either cut spending, raise taxes, or both.

The former is not popular with those on the left, and the second is not popular to the right.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with it. It just is fully non-God based.
Well, regardless if you agree or not, it's a bloody lousy argument. Yes, it'd cost money, but if you are gonna exclude people from marriage because of the cost of the divorce, you should A)work do de-legalize marriage as a whole, or B)make sure the people that are getting the divorce are paying for their costs, or C) base the discrimination on marriage rights on people more likely to divorce.
You can't say "Ok, we can have SOME marriages, but we can't afford more than X so these groups are not allowed to"
That is not an argument against gay marriage, that is an argument against marriage.
You're missing the point of the argument, dear reader

You, I assume, favor gay marriage

Allrighty then, how do you pay for it?
I think that's a bit of a weird argument. Are you saying some people shouldn't have basic rights because they have the same chance as Straight Couples to get divorced?

"Sorry, but we were here first and we don't need anyone else getting divorced right now."

In all honesty I would trust gay people to stay together more than straights: They already committed to an "alternate" lifestyle. Most "Middle Americans" treat the institution of marriage with so little respect that they deserve it less!

My parents have married in the double digits, combined. That includes getting divorced. Wouldn't it be more fair to put a Marriage cap on so every Cletus, Bob and Bob Jr. can't keep costing us money?

Also, wouldn't having more family units benefit our economy? When you marry, that's a lot of money being pumped back into the economy. (Cakes, invitation, etc.)
You're missing the point, just slightly

You can get rid of this argument by presenting a way to make up for the shortfall in tax collection it would cause. That's all you have to do.
Look, I see what you're saying, but considering that some people are arbitrarily being denied civil rights, shouldn't we just look at this and say "Ok, we can take this hit, this is important"?

Don't misunderstand me, money and budget balancing and such are important, but you can't be paralytically afraid of giving up ANY money, especially when something important comes up.
 

Littaly

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Economic stagnation leaving young adults trapped between teens and true independent adulthood sucks. Take it from one of said man-children :(

As for the topic of the episode, I don't know. It doesn't bother me in general, but from time to time a case shows up that is a little annoying. Particularly when there isn't only nostalgia, when whatever it is that they're trying to sell have little to nothing else to get excited about.
 

Sperium 3000

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Monoochrom said:
2D is a perspective, CoD is by definition a FPS, it play in the First-Person perspective. So, Mario went from jumping in a 2D World to jumping in a 3D World. Wooooooooooooooooooow.

I actually don't enjoy the Zombie thing. But if were talking Enemies, well, I guess Mario has Bowser......and uh....Bowser....but there was that one time....nope, Bowser. But he can put on a Racoon Suit! Hooray! Settings. Well, Mario has had ''Space'' and the Mushroom Kingdom. In CoD thus far we've had:

Russia
France
USA
Middle East
Middle of the Ocean
Space
Germany
And so forth.

But you know what? That doesn't matter, because it's just a setting, just like with the plump plumber. In both cases we are still doing the same thing. In one case shooting and exploding things, in the other jumping and hitting them.

Mario is ofcourse arguably more diverse, pretty much because he is Nintendos top whore which has a Game in which he does nearly anything imaginable. But I'm talking a actual Mario Game, what precisely do they constantly bring to the table that is new? And while we're at it, how about new in any meaningful way?

And now you're talking about colors? Do you have problems with your Eyes or something? There is plenty of color in a given Shooter. The difference between that in Mario? Well, for one CoD plays in the real world, or atleast one that resembles it very closely. Mario plays in a fantasy world in which they can do whatever they want. It's a entirely different approach to the visual style. That is, by the way a Strawman.

I can name a rather large list of things that black ops did different in comparison to modern warfare 2. Can you do the same with galaxy and galaxy 2?
Yeeaaaah... How old are you? Because when Mario 64 first came out, it was a big fucking deal, like the monkey finding the monolith, the ability to walk around goombas instead of jumping on/over them was quite mind-blowing in the 90s. CoD is an FPS, a war FPS mind you, just like a thousand others that came before it and are yet to come. And those enemies you list? All it boils down are more soldiers for you to shoot up, except that they look different and use different weapons that are ultimately the same "pick up and murder a ton of dudes" deal.

And about Mario enemies: Bowser, Wario (in Super Mario Land 2), Tatanga, Donkey Kong (In the first Donkey Kong and Mario Vs. Donkey Kong series), Count Bleck and Dimention (Two from the same game, yeah), the Shadow Queen, Smithy, Warg, The Fake Millenium Star, Dark Star, Cackletta and Fawful, the Shroobs, and so on. And this is only the Big Bads and final bosses in general, this is not counting all the different mid-bosses, level bosses, unrelated and one-shot villains. I'm sorry, but no matter how much you try, you won't prove that Call Of Duty is more original or innovative or variated or whatever than Mario. It just doesn't fly.
 

OtherSideofSky

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Just because bigger problems exist doesn't mean people shouldn't talk about the smaller ones. I reject your argument that we can't discuss problems in geek culture just because bigger issues exist in the larger cultural landscape.

My issue with the crazy nostalgia crowd (all of them, harmful AND harmless) is that they refuse to see any problems with the things they feel nostalgia for. It's fine if you want to see the Tanooki Suit (a cultural reference that I'm sure none of you got as kids anyway) again or don't want too sweeping a change in the Legend of Zelda's art style, the problem is when you start running around proclaiming that Mario Brothers 3 or Ocarina of Time are flawless gems whose design can never be surpassed (yes, there really are people who exactly this. I'm not just exaggerating for the sake of an argument).

Also, please stop using the EA Sports games as an example, you obviously don't play them. Sure, they always LOOK pretty much the same, but that's because they're a simulation of a thing that actually exists and they're recreating what it looks like. They have some bad years where not much changes, but new iterations usually make improvements to the engine which are very noticeable to people who actually play them. They aren't just roster updates or things that could be DLC. Also, most people who buy those games skip years. You just love to hate on them because most nerds hate sports.
 

Lieju

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Talking as a someone who has interest in history, it pisses me off SO MUCH when people have this warped view of good olden times.

And BTW, it's not just the right-wing nutters who are under delusion that there was once a time of innocence when gays didn't exist, men were men and women women and formed "proper" god-fearing families and everything was perfect.

Left-wing, enviromentalists and liberals have their share of these kinds of people as well, people who think that when people lived "naturally" everything was perfect and the nature was in balance and such BS.

Usually having idiotic impressions of hunter-gatherers tribal tradition and such...
Or that modern medicine has been more trouble than help.
 

Strain42

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For some reason I was expecting him to maybe talk about the new Winnie the Pooh movie which was a wonderful trip down nostalgia lane, and it was amazing for anyone wondering.

I didn't even like Winnie the Pooh that much as a kid, but the way that movie made me laugh and smile, I'd swear I was six years old again.
 

trooper6

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Great episode, Bob. As I was watching it, at first I was irritated. I thought, "This whole episode is going to be a defense of remakes? I'm not even sure I'd call that nostalgia...you should be talking about the idealization of the past in ways the marginalizes and oppresses actual people! I mean...this whole "let's go back to the 50s" thing is great if you are a straight white man who is not poor and who lives in a major metropolitan area...and even if you were, you were probably suffering from PTSD from WW2 and not able to deal with it other than drinking heavily..."

And then you talked about just that.

You are awesome.
 

CM156_v1legacy

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TheBear17 said:
im sure the people whom defended slavery made a similar argument. Although the scope of the problem is different that argument was wrong then and is wrong now.
You're trying to link the truth of a claim to others who may have said it in a less reputible issue. Hyperbole much?

But if we are to engage in this, need I remind you that Hitler ate sugar? [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar]
Avatar Roku said:
CM156 said:
Jay Fakename said:
CM156 said:
Varya said:
CM156 said:
Agayek said:
Honestly, I couldn't care less for gay marriage, but I've never heard an argument against it that was any stronger than "God said so!", and that's simply not a compelling reason. I'd like your take on it, since you clearly disagree.
Actually, I've heard a secular argument:

Money. If we allow more people to get married, that means more people will get devorced, which takes up the courts time and money. And that also means that if they file together, they pay less in taxes. So we are left with a net loss.

Which means we either cut spending, raise taxes, or both.

The former is not popular with those on the left, and the second is not popular to the right.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with it. It just is fully non-God based.
Well, regardless if you agree or not, it's a bloody lousy argument. Yes, it'd cost money, but if you are gonna exclude people from marriage because of the cost of the divorce, you should A)work do de-legalize marriage as a whole, or B)make sure the people that are getting the divorce are paying for their costs, or C) base the discrimination on marriage rights on people more likely to divorce.
You can't say "Ok, we can have SOME marriages, but we can't afford more than X so these groups are not allowed to"
That is not an argument against gay marriage, that is an argument against marriage.
You're missing the point of the argument, dear reader

You, I assume, favor gay marriage

Allrighty then, how do you pay for it?
I think that's a bit of a weird argument. Are you saying some people shouldn't have basic rights because they have the same chance as Straight Couples to get divorced?

"Sorry, but we were here first and we don't need anyone else getting divorced right now."

In all honesty I would trust gay people to stay together more than straights: They already committed to an "alternate" lifestyle. Most "Middle Americans" treat the institution of marriage with so little respect that they deserve it less!

My parents have married in the double digits, combined. That includes getting divorced. Wouldn't it be more fair to put a Marriage cap on so every Cletus, Bob and Bob Jr. can't keep costing us money?

Also, wouldn't having more family units benefit our economy? When you marry, that's a lot of money being pumped back into the economy. (Cakes, invitation, etc.)
You're missing the point, just slightly

You can get rid of this argument by presenting a way to make up for the shortfall in tax collection it would cause. That's all you have to do.
Look, I see what you're saying, but considering that some people are arbitrarily being denied civil rights, shouldn't we just look at this and say "Ok, we can take this hit, this is important"?

Don't misunderstand me, money and budget balancing and such are important, but you can't be paralytically afraid of giving up ANY money, especially when something important comes up.
I can see where you are coming from as well.

But the thing is: when a political proposes any plan, one of the first questions is "How do we pay for it?"

I'm merrly asking for the same to be applied to this issue.

And again, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SHOW ME A WAY IT WILL BE PAID FOR. That's it
 

Johnson McGee

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Personally I don't really get why people tend to look back on their childhood ages as great. I really didn't enjoy my childhood since in Moviebob's words: "the 90's sucked."
 

mcnally86

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I think Bob started strong but then he got political again. The shows tend to get unenjoyable for me after that. He tends to pick something and hammer it until I get bored and disgusted.
 

Lieju

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CM156 said:
Agayek said:
Honestly, I couldn't care less for gay marriage, but I've never heard an argument against it that was any stronger than "God said so!", and that's simply not a compelling reason. I'd like your take on it, since you clearly disagree.
Actually, I've heard a secular argument:

Money. If we allow more people to get married, that means more people will get devorced, which takes up the courts time and money. And that also means that if they file together, they pay less in taxes. So we are left with a net loss.

Which means we either cut spending, raise taxes, or both.

The former is not popular with those on the left, and the second is not popular to the right.

Again, I don't necessarily agree with it. It just is fully non-God based.
That's sort of an argument against MARRIAGE, not GAY-marriage.
Since it's about how the institution itself is bad, at least in a way that get's the goverment involved.

I agree that there are legitimate arguments against marriage as such, especially of goverment's involvement, though.
But as for why you should allow hetero-sexual couples to do so, but no gays, that argument doesn't hold.
 

Xman490

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There are also some things from the 90s included in the nostalgia scene. I bought both Super Mario Galaxy games not because of innovation, but because my childhood experience with Super Mario 64 has led me to enjoy exploring those 3D worlds (NOT galaxies, they're too small). Unfortunately for Nintendo and their 3DS and WiiU perhaps sticking to the old formula of "here's a new tool in this old environment", I have tired of that. I may soon tire of the "sandbox" games, user-generated content, and shooters by Valve.
 

crudus

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Sweet! A big picture episode that actually looks at the big picture. I like it. Not that I don't like the other episodes; I just like the ones that make me think more so.

Agent Larkin said:
And if my history class taught me anything its that people died of starvation from the potato's failing. And then getting stuffed on boats to countries that didn't want them.
If English class has taught me anything, its that people survived that <a href=http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html>by eating babies[footnote]You smart kids out there will notice if I actually think that, then I learned nothing in English class[/footnote].
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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Ne1butme said:
NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Can't help but notice the two areas he calls a "problem" are both Republican ideas. Someone's showing their democrat side. Wonder how long till Xan and that one nut who complains about how left wing the Escapist and the internet are get here. I smell poorly enforced boycott!

But in seriousness, perspective would be good, but nobody is ever capable of true perspective. Our own experiences shape our perception of the world.
They aren't exclusively republican ideas, but simply conservative ideas. Conservatism isn't the exclusive property of the Republican party (no matter what the talking heads say).

Conservatism, by definition, is the desire to conserve the status quo, perhaps to the point of regressing to an earlier status quo. This feeds into the nostalgia idea. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea, but we do tend to look at the past with rose coloured glasses on certain issues. The modern trend of Reagan worship is a good example.
Conservative only really gained ground up when the fires of Liberalism started to spread. Apparently some guys with money were not too happy about them not being able to treat workers like crap like they were so used to doing, so they used all their money to convince the lower class who had a lot more votes than they did in terms of numbers. That Liberals was trying to make their life worse by -Undermining tradition- and stuff like that.

So really, in the big picture I see Conservatism as starting out as something undeniably evil and later on took a less harmfull stance by making itself more neutral-ish. But its still mainly the coorporate elite folks who support conservatism and in countries where theese folks cannot pay politicians to do what they want (Aka, such a country as my own) Conservatives have very little. Perhaps even no power at all. Because conserving a time of Xenophobia and Diehard Capitalism. Is just not worth it.

(( Then again all this should probably be in the Religion and Politics board))
 

Varya

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Nov 23, 2009
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cymonsgames said:
Sorry, I don't watch FOX news, I'm from Sweden, here, Fox news wouldn't be allowed. I don't believe news can be truly objective, but I do feel a bit proud that our laws are decent enough to stop blatant propaganda masquerading as news.
In fact, I was refraining from calling you all sorts of names, while still trying to get my point across.. Gay marriage is a very important question to me.
(To make things clear, I am not gay, I have friends that are, but I'm not ranting "on their behalf", they are excellent ranters themselves, and more importantly already have the right to marry. This is important for me because it's a moral question, not for personal reasons)
It's important because any couple should have the same rights as any other couple. Anything other is discrimination.
Don't try and be superior with your "I have a reason, but I'm to important to step down and give these stupid mortals them" If it's a tax-cut question, any couple should have the same rights. If you think that since gays can't get children (with each other) that's somehow important, the same laws should of course be applied to childless marriages yes?
Otherwise, it's just discrimination. That what it get's down to. A relationship that is not valued as "good" as another.
If it's somehow about money, it's still good ol' fashioned discrimination to exclude the gays.
 

Aurini

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Varya said:
Maybe if you looked at a country that actually applied Left-wing politics for about 50 years, like, oh say Sweden, you'd see that we are a country with high equality, very few cases of corrupt politicians and our liberal views on the nuclear family means most people don't give a fuck if you have two daddies, and that people don't feel peer-pressure to stay in an abusive relationship.
I'm not saying we have a perfect country, but it seems to me that in the US you take the view that if the current government don't make peace on earth within it's first year, every little thing that goes wrong, from earthquakes to individual deaths, are blamed on the President. This goes for both parties btw. Maybe if you actually had some form of law that required politicians to back up their claims, so that they couldn't get away with making statistics up their asses or deny proven science, you'd have some facts based on actual, unbiased studies. Problem is of course that a studies performed by educated people is considered bias by 50% of the population that thinks that actually being educated makes you bias to "the science religion" and that proof are easily disputed with "common sense"

I wen't on a bit of a rant there but your comment really rubbed me the wrong way.
Here's the thing; the socialist Nordic countries work *despite* socialism, not because of it. With small, culturally homogeneaic peoples, there's a strong pressure not to abuse the system. Furthermore, it's easy to find the bureaucrat who makes the decisions, and explain to them why a new postal box (or whatever) would be a smart decision.

It's the same reason socialism works in families, and in the army, but not in larger life.

In the US socialism is used as a tool to turn groups against eachother; robbing from Peter to pay Paul, convincing people to identify with their victim group, and demand concessions from society at large, regardless of the harm this does to society, or to themselves.

Also, I never blamed this on the President; granted, he's an incompetent buffoon, but having Ron Paul in that office wouldn't change things (though it might 'discredit' Libertarinism after he failed to make any changes). Politicians aren't the problem - they're present to give you the illusion of control over a civil service, eductional system, and MSM propaganda machine which are deeply entrenched and unreachable.

Consider this: the most insanely right-wing pundit of the present era (Rush Limbaugh, or whomever you want to choose) would - in 1950 - have been considered a moderate, at the very least, or more likely a left-leaning hippie.

The devil was the first whig, and he's been winning for 500 years; things are getting worse, and the nuclear family is dissolving, the economy is turning to serfdom, and ugliness is called beauty. We're in Rome's bread and circus days - just look at modern art such as Piss Christ for the evidence of that. Women have become whores and the modern men are pathetic.

H.L. Menken saw where this was going a century back; liberals are the poison, and conservatives aren't the answer. I'll stand by him on that bit of Reactionary ground.