The Big Picture: In Defense of Nostalgia

Recommended Videos

ZombieGenesis

New member
Apr 15, 2009
1,909
0
0
You know what? Even as someone who owns leather furniture, has shelves of bound books and wears his slippers in front of the fireplace... I agree where Bobby is going with this. It's harmless to enjoy the aesthetics and perhaps even SOME ideals of the past, but only when you're willing to open your mind to cultural changes and the effects that these old house principles could have on actual -people- in the today times.

Of course we all know that, because Bob just said it.
I'm sure there will be some people who cry out against the viewpoint, but honestly, I don't think these are the sorts of people who frequent new-media outlets about the expanding influence of developing artistic and creative outlets.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,863
15
43
cymonsgames said:
I am getting tired of the gay marriage thing being dredged up over and over again whenever someone wants to show how liberal they are. I agree that the majority of people who oppose gay marriage generally do so for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't make it right. If you're right for the wrong reasons, you're still right.

But I'm not willing to even discuss why they might be right with people who are so bent on being "forward thinking" that they can't consider that maybe, just maybe, the ignorant, scared, slavering masses might be right about this one.
if you can give me a good reason why gay marrage shouldnt be allowed then sure

but generally they CANT
 

Doclector

New member
Aug 22, 2009
5,010
0
0
This is actually very relevant to a predicament I had just today. After giving my bank enough proof of ID to essentially sum up my entire life, I was told I couldn't get a student bank account. Why? My credit rating was too low.

Hang on, I thought, I've never borrowed ANY money. Not from a bank, and in fact, very few times from anyone else. I don't like the idea of owing other people. Yet my credit rating is low because I stuck with a "junior" account with no overdraft, because, hell, I'd rather starve than owe the bank at an extortionate interest rate. Now, if I want a student account, I have to sign up for a credit card, and use it to pay for everything, and pay it off at the end of every month, in order to get a decent credit rating.

When I spoke to my mum about it, she said I should accept this absurd system. But why? It's the way things have always been, but on what planet is it right that I, someone who has never completely ran out of money in my account, has never even asked for a loan, has never wanted to borrow in the first place, am now ranked alongside people who never pay off anything.

Morale of the story, just because a system is old, does not mean it works like it should.
 

Parnage

New member
Apr 13, 2010
107
0
0
I was going to post some long write up on how the theory of the US Constitution has been used in several places how it's based on older documents like the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights, how that while it's the second oldest constitution still in use that you can draw it's influences as far back as Polybius but then I realized.

Even if I did. It wouldn't matter because I'd just be called an uneducated "American" despite the fact I live in the United States and America can imply pretty much anywhere from Canada to Chile.

It's not on my end to educate you. It's your own problem if some of the biggest reasons for me being "insane" and "wrong" is because I am "wrong" and "insane."
 

The Random One

New member
May 29, 2008
3,310
0
0
I'm sorry, Bob, but you're wrong. You're so, so wrong.

I mean, I get it. You're this kind of no stops pulled ultra-liberal. I get it. I'm kind of one myself. The problem is that you can't seem to understand that one can be of a conservative mindset without being completely dumb. Amazing, no? But it is the truth.

That wrong underlying assumption nullifies your entire point, since you got the whole thing backwards. You appear to be under the assumption that mankind is on a steady march towards Great Liberal Illumination, with a forgotten bygone Dark Era in which people believed that gays were an abomination that should be sacrificed to Helios the Sun-God and a bright future in which mankind is enlightened enough for Australia to allow an R18+ games rating. That, sadly, is not the case.

See, the thing is... for instance, there's an expression in French that translates vaguely to 'to dress like an Englishwoman', which means something like to be dressed sluttily. That expression came to be because of the Hundred Year War, during which England had far less cultural interchange with Europe, the heart of the world at the time. One of the results is that they didn't follow the changing the cultural sensibilities of the time and when the war ended they were still stick in the cultural outlook of roughly a hundred years prior. Do you imagine what it meant for them? I mean, imagine it had happened during the last century. England would be full of gentleman who would be popping their monocles at our bikin and porn technologies. Surely something like that happened at the time, right?

Nope. During those hundred years, culture had become more conservative. (Or it had in Europe, which in turn made everyone in the world who was or wanted to be civilized act accordingly). So when the war ended and cultural interchange resumed, the English were acting way more liberally than their continental counterparts. For instance, what they accepted to be formal clothing was much more revealing, which gave Englishwomen a reputation of being sleazy. Hence, to dress like an Englishwoman.

Of course, that's just stuff from the old days, and history is boring and full of stupid people who are dead anyway. Right? Except that there are many countries that are more conservative now than they were a hundred years ago. This happens more in the Middle East nowadays; there are many old people who remember the good old days when people didn't have to wear a shirt out at all times and you could go make out with a girl. Would you say those people are nostalgic? Would you say they are stupidly following a dead era that was not as great as they remember anyway?

The truth is that conservatives are not looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The past was better - for them, because back then being conservative was the more accepted ideology, and policies defending things they still believe in were taken for granted. Conversely, it would have been worse for us - as people had to fight tooth or nail for things we think are right. But the pendulum swings. We're still in the middle of a paradigm shift, but given that social change seems to have been sped up as of late, maybe by the time we're raising our children it will be us who remember the old times when people didn't judge you for being a minority. Nostalgia certainly plays a role, but you're doing it wrong: they don't let nostalgia dictate their policies, they have policies that did much better in the past, which makes nostalgia a strong force for them.

I am not American so I am not affected by your silly dual-party belief systems; my words therefore are true. Hear hear!

It doesn't matter what you are defending, there are smart people and dumb people on your side and on the opposite side. The best way to tell them apart is usually to see if they are capable of understanding people who don't agree with them. If you can't - well, at least the other side has those as well.
 

nobodysoldier25

New member
Sep 24, 2008
25
0
0
The Random One said:
I'm sorry, Bob, but you're wrong. You're so, so wrong.

I mean, I get it. You're this kind of no stops pulled ultra-liberal. I get it. I'm kind of one myself. The problem is that you can't seem to understand that one can be of a conservative mindset without being completely dumb. Amazing, no? But it is the truth.

That wrong underlying assumption nullifies your entire point, since you got the whole thing backwards. You appear to be under the assumption that mankind is on a steady march towards Great Liberal Illumination, with a forgotten bygone Dark Era in which people believed that gays were an abomination that should be sacrificed to Helios the Sun-God and a bright future in which mankind is enlightened enough for Australia to allow an R18+ games rating. That, sadly, is not the case.

See, the thing is... for instance, there's an expression in French that translates vaguely to 'to dress like an Englishwoman', which means something like to be dressed sluttily. That expression came to be because of the Hundred Year War, during which England had far less cultural interchange with Europe, the heart of the world at the time. One of the results is that they didn't follow the changing the cultural sensibilities of the time and when the war ended they were still stick in the cultural outlook of roughly a hundred years prior. Do you imagine what it meant for them? I mean, imagine it had happened during the last century. England would be full of gentleman who would be popping their monocles at our bikin and porn technologies. Surely something like that happened at the time, right?

Nope. During those hundred years, culture had become more conservative. (Or it had in Europe, which in turn made everyone in the world who was or wanted to be civilized act accordingly). So when the war ended and cultural interchange resumed, the English were acting way more liberally than their continental counterparts. For instance, what they accepted to be formal clothing was much more revealing, which gave Englishwomen a reputation of being sleazy. Hence, to dress like an Englishwoman.

Of course, that's just stuff from the old days, and history is boring and full of stupid people who are dead anyway. Right? Except that there are many countries that are more conservative now than they were a hundred years ago. This happens more in the Middle East nowadays; there are many old people who remember the good old days when people didn't have to wear a shirt out at all times and you could go make out with a girl. Would you say those people are nostalgic? Would you say they are stupidly following a dead era that was not as great as they remember anyway?

The truth is that conservatives are not looking at the past through rose-colored glasses. The past was better - for them, because back then being conservative was the more accepted ideology, and policies defending things they still believe in were taken for granted. Conversely, it would have been worse for us - as people had to fight tooth or nail for things we think are right. But the pendulum swings. We're still in the middle of a paradigm shift, but given that social change seems to have been sped up as of late, maybe by the time we're raising our children it will be us who remember the old times when people didn't judge you for being a minority. Nostalgia certainly plays a role, but you're doing it wrong: they don't let nostalgia dictate their policies, they have policies that did much better in the past, which makes nostalgia a strong force for them.

I am not American so I am not affected by your silly dual-party belief systems; my words therefore are true. Hear hear!

It doesn't matter what you are defending, there are smart people and dumb people on your side and on the opposite side. The best way to tell them apart is usually to see if they are capable of understanding people who don't agree with them. If you can't - well, at least the other side has those as well.
Why do people keep saying that? He never said that conservatives are idiots. He in no way attacked the intelligence of any group of people. He said that conservatives cling fondly to a time in which things were "better," i.e. nostalgia, and they refuse to accept the fact that times are changing, and, not only that, but they view the change as some kind of country destroying apocalypse and fight against it tooth and nail using nostalgia.

And in truth the past was no better for conservatives than it is now. They have the exact same level of control over our country, and they're still the majority in terms of ideological beliefs.
 

RDubayoo

New member
Sep 11, 2008
170
0
0
Oh, you're right, Bob, about the destructive power of certain political opinions. But you didn't realize that it was you and other folks on the left who are a truly destructive force in this country. The gay marriage thing, for instance? Why is there a pressing need for it? "People can't marry the same gender, it's not faaaiiiiir!" Yeah, and? Marriage wasn't devised simply to allow two people to live together, like they couldn't do that without getting married. It's designed to form the basis for FAMILIES. It has a practical purpose and liberal dumbasses are screwing up the works by trying to weaken the definition of what a marriage is and what it's for. Not only that, but gay marriage will require various religions to change their own beliefs just to suit the whims of the liberal mob. It would be an obvious violation of the first amendment... pity the left doesn't care.

And yet it never occurs to libs like you just how badly you have erred, or why. Instead you beat on anyone who dares to question you by making false accusations of bigotry, and then you stumble on to the next perceived social injustice, leaving a smoking ruin in your wake. Well, Bob, you can count on people like me giving you a piece of their minds whenever you open your mouth on politics. My advice to you is to stick to movies, because you can't do any harm with that.
 

gbemery

New member
Jun 27, 2009
907
0
0
If one aspect of this show was to entice me into looking up how they could make a Battleship movie and then watch the trailer....then mission fucking accomplished!

OT: I liked this episode very much, even though I never have been one to think that nostalgia is "bad" only if you obsess about it all the time and only have something negative to say about anything that changes your little world.
 

thepyrethatburns

New member
Sep 22, 2010
454
0
0
The funny thing about this is that both sides in politics use "nostalgia" on different things, not just the Republicans.

As an example of where the Democrats use "nostalgia" is public education. Republicans have been arguing that the "one size fits all" philosophy of U.S. public education simply doesn't work for everyone and have been arguing for many methods of changing it up to and including vouchers. Democrats, on the other hand, have been obstructing any form of progress whether it is home schooling, classes over the internet, vouchers, or anything that would allow the majority of kids to get away from schools that are either not suited to them or, in a number of cases, are failing them outright. I say a majority because, oddly enough, the ones who fight the hardest to keep everyone else's kids in public school almost always send their kids to private schools.

So, when talking about "nostalgia", Moviebob should probably take a long look at the party he is shilling for because "nostalgia" isn't solely the province of one party.
 

lowkey_jotunn

New member
Feb 23, 2011
223
0
0
Agayek said:
cymonsgames said:
I am getting tired of the gay marriage thing being dredged up over and over again whenever someone wants to show how liberal they are. I agree that the majority of people who oppose gay marriage generally do so for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't make it right. If you're right for the wrong reasons, you're still right.

But I'm not willing to even discuss why they might be right with people who are so bent on being "forward thinking" that they can't consider that maybe, just maybe, the ignorant, scared, slavering masses might be right about this one.
I'm honestly really curious now. Why is it even potentially right to deny someone else the same rights you enjoy?

Honestly, I couldn't care less for gay marriage, but I've never heard an argument against it that was any stronger than "God said so!", and that's simply not a compelling reason. I'd like your take on it, since you clearly disagree.
Just my 2c on the matter: My only issue with gay marriage at the moment is the way is came to pass here in California. For those of you who don't live in Cali, here's basically how it went.

Random Judge: I'm kinda bored, let's do something: Oh I know. Gay marriage is now legal.
California Populace: Wait, what? Shouldn't we, maybe, vote on this? Isn't that the American Way?
Judge: Oh, I suppose you're right. Lets have a vote
[Vote Happens, Gay Marriage loses]
Judge: Fuck your vote. It's legal anyway.

So while I personally have no problem with gay marriage as a concept, I have a BIG problem with the approach we've taken. Also, the judge in question is openly homosexual, so I'm a bit skeptical on his "unbiased opinion" in this matter.


Anyway... the solution is obvious and simple. Civil Unions for everyone. No more marriage as a legal document. Man and woman? Man and man? Woman and Woman? Any pair of legal consenting adults can join into a civil union, and that's the end of the government's involvement. If you want to get Married in the old fashioned style, and live in Holy Matrimony etc ... go see a preacher (or a reverend or a pastor, or whatever you'd like.) In my mind, marriage should be like a baptism, bar mitzvah or a bris. Nothing the government is involved in, and simply a decision made between you and your faith of choice.
 

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
0
0
Calbeck said:
Given that Bob has a habit of "veering into politics" regardless of the actual subject of any given episode...nah, it wasn't a ploy with any suspense at all. It was kind of like saying "the following bowl of cereal may contain milk".

But given the specific warning, it was no surprise when Bob decided to shift from pop-culture nostalgia into an off-the-wall claim that being supportive of such specific things as the United States Constitution is "nostalgic". I'm sure he's aware the thing has an amendment process so it CAN be changed...but if he's not satisfied with that, one has to wonder how he would go about "refreshing" it without simply ignoring the parts of the law he doesn't like --- you know, like the Montana Freemen did.

I suppose it's sufficient to point out the obvious and leave it there: Bob doesn't like a given segment of American political views and thinks anyone who holds them is somehow holding America back. Which is pretty much the exact same view held by the extremists on the other side of that particular coin, the types who scream that President Obama is a "socialist".

Folks like Bob, and their opposite numbers, are a big reason why it's so difficult in this country to actually have a, say, dialogue on the issues, rather than a Pick-Your-Rant-Fest.
Hate to say it, but you're right Cal. This was actually the first "Big Picture" vid I was going to watch. Halfway through, I got so disgusted I quit. I felt it had devolved into yet another lets-spew-bile-on-conservatives rant. It's irritating how the extremists on both sides make genuine discussion impossible. On the right we have narrow-minded cretins whose politics come dangerously close to homophobia, religious bigotry and racism. While on the left, we have a bunch of self-righteous, morally and ethically lazy dolts who think they're personal philosophy is better because it's so inoffensive to anyone, but that's because their philosophy is to allow any sort of behavior, no matter how foul, short of murder (and even then that's debatable if you can question if the victim is really a person).

I admit I don't like compromising a lot. It makes me feel like I'm getting weak or betraying the things I try to stand up for. But in this case, at least being a bit more open to discussion would go a long way for the political system.

lowkey_jotunn said:
Just my 2c on the matter: My only issue with gay marriage at the moment is the way is came to pass here in California. For those of you who don't live in Cali, here's basically how it went.

Random Judge: I'm kinda bored, let's do something: Oh I know. Gay marriage is now legal.
California Populace: Wait, what? Shouldn't we, maybe, vote on this? Isn't that the American Way?
Judge: Oh, I suppose you're right. Lets have a vote
[Vote Happens, Gay Marriage loses]
Judge: Fuck your vote. It's legal anyway.

So while I personally have no problem with gay marriage as a concept, I have a BIG problem with the approach we've taken. Also, the judge in question is openly homosexual, so I'm a bit skeptical on his "unbiased opinion" in this matter.


Anyway... the solution is obvious and simple. Civil Unions for everyone. No more marriage as a legal document. Man and woman? Man and man? Woman and Woman? Any pair of legal consenting adults can join into a civil union, and that's the end of the government's involvement. If you want to get Married in the old fashioned style, and live in Holy Matrimony etc ... go see a preacher (or a reverend or a pastor, or whatever you'd like.) In my mind, marriage should be like a baptism, bar mitzvah or a bris. Nothing the government is involved in, and simply a decision made between you and your faith of choice.
The way I see it, gay marriage should be allowed two ways: 1) if a given religious institute or individual church or what have you condones it. 2) If it's presided over by a properly authorized justice of the peace, i.e. a civil union. Let's be honest, this whole thing stems from the...mixed feelings about homosexuality from religion. It's no skin off the government's nose if two guys or two girls want to get hitched, aside from concern about voter backlash. So if a church or government body is willing to allow it, fine. BUT, I don't think anyone should have the right to FORCE a religious official or government officer to perform a marriage ceremony. None of this "marry us or we'll take you to court over it," crap. For a priest, rabbi, or what have you, it's a violation of his/her rights. For a judge or justice of the peace, it undermines their authority.
 

lowkey_jotunn

New member
Feb 23, 2011
223
0
0
Mike Fang said:
Calbeck said:
Given that Bob has a habit of "veering into politics" regardless of the actual subject of any given episode...nah, it wasn't a ploy with any suspense at all. It was kind of like saying "the following bowl of cereal may contain milk".

But given the specific warning, it was no surprise when Bob decided to shift from pop-culture nostalgia into an off-the-wall claim that being supportive of such specific things as the United States Constitution is "nostalgic". I'm sure he's aware the thing has an amendment process so it CAN be changed...but if he's not satisfied with that, one has to wonder how he would go about "refreshing" it without simply ignoring the parts of the law he doesn't like --- you know, like the Montana Freemen did.

I suppose it's sufficient to point out the obvious and leave it there: Bob doesn't like a given segment of American political views and thinks anyone who holds them is somehow holding America back. Which is pretty much the exact same view held by the extremists on the other side of that particular coin, the types who scream that President Obama is a "socialist".

Folks like Bob, and their opposite numbers, are a big reason why it's so difficult in this country to actually have a, say, dialogue on the issues, rather than a Pick-Your-Rant-Fest.
Hate to say it, but you're right Cal. This was actually the first "Big Picture" vid I was going to watch. Halfway through, I got so disgusted I quit. I felt it had devolved into yet another lets-spew-bile-on-conservatives rant. It's irritating how the extremists on both sides make genuine discussion impossible. On the right we have narrow-minded cretins whose politics come dangerously close to homophobia, religious bigotry and racism. While on the left, we have a bunch of self-righteous, morally and ethically lazy dolts who think they're personal philosophy is better because it's so inoffensive to anyone, but that's because their philosophy is to allow any sort of behavior, no matter how foul, short of murder (and even then that's debatable if you can question if the victim is really a person).

I admit I don't like compromising a lot. It makes me feel like I'm getting weak or betraying the things I try to stand up for. But in this case, at least being a bit more open to discussion would go a long way for the political system.

lowkey_jotunn said:
Just my 2c on the matter: My only issue with gay marriage at the moment is the way is came to pass here in California. For those of you who don't live in Cali, here's basically how it went.

Random Judge: I'm kinda bored, let's do something: Oh I know. Gay marriage is now legal.
California Populace: Wait, what? Shouldn't we, maybe, vote on this? Isn't that the American Way?
Judge: Oh, I suppose you're right. Lets have a vote
[Vote Happens, Gay Marriage loses]
Judge: Fuck your vote. It's legal anyway.

So while I personally have no problem with gay marriage as a concept, I have a BIG problem with the approach we've taken. Also, the judge in question is openly homosexual, so I'm a bit skeptical on his "unbiased opinion" in this matter.


Anyway... the solution is obvious and simple. Civil Unions for everyone. No more marriage as a legal document. Man and woman? Man and man? Woman and Woman? Any pair of legal consenting adults can join into a civil union, and that's the end of the government's involvement. If you want to get Married in the old fashioned style, and live in Holy Matrimony etc ... go see a preacher (or a reverend or a pastor, or whatever you'd like.) In my mind, marriage should be like a baptism, bar mitzvah or a bris. Nothing the government is involved in, and simply a decision made between you and your faith of choice.

The way I see it, gay marriage should be allowed two ways: 1) if a given religious institute or individual church or what have you condones it. 2) If it's presided over by a properly authorized justice of the peace, i.e. a civil union. Let's be honest, this whole thing stems from the...mixed feelings about homosexuality from religion. It's no skin off the government's nose if two guys or two girls want to get hitched, aside from concern about voter backlash. So if a church or government body is willing to allow it, fine. BUT, I don't think anyone should have the right to FORCE a religious official or government officer to perform a marriage ceremony. None of this "marry us or we'll take you to court over it," crap. For a priest, rabbi, or what have you, it's a violation of his/her rights. For a judge or justice of the peace, it undermines their authority.
My major problem is "given religious institute or what have you." I'd much rather keep religion out of the equation completely, because it's too easily manipulated. See: Scientology. Do you really want that group to have the final say in who gets married and who doesn't?

And really, I see no reason for Marriage (as it relates to the church) having any bearing on two adults filing joint taxes or sharing in the health benefits one of them enjoys from their work. If you want to "love and cherish, till death do you part," I support that 100%. Without any sarcasm I hope it works out wonderfully for you. Talk to your local spiritual leader and they'll get you all squared away. But if you want to have hospital visitation rights, shared taxes, insurance beneficiaries or pick up each others kids from day care ... talk to Uncle Sam, he'll handle that half of the equation.
 

Mike Fang

New member
Mar 20, 2008
458
0
0
lowkey_jotunn said:
My major problem is "given religious institute or what have you." I'd much rather keep religion out of the equation completely, because it's too easily manipulated. See: Scientology. Do you really want that group to have the final say in who gets married and who doesn't?

And really, I see no reason for Marriage (as it relates to the church) having any bearing on two adults filing joint taxes or sharing in the health benefits one of them enjoys from their work. If you want to "love and cherish, till death do you part," I support that 100%. Without any sarcasm I hope it works out wonderfully for you. Talk to your local spiritual leader and they'll get you all squared away. But if you want to have hospital visitation rights, shared taxes, insurance beneficiaries or pick up each others kids from day care ... talk to Uncle Sam, he'll handle that half of the equation.
I guess maybe it does open the door to the questionable groups that call themselves a religion when really their beliefs are questionable in how seriously they can be taken (see Scientology) or are flat-out designed to be nothing more than insulting mockeries of religion (see Pastafarians and Invisible Pink Unicorn...ians, or whatever the hell they call themselves.) But the fact is religion is where marriage first originated and you're just not going to be able to take it out of the equation and make marriage a government-only institute. So, while I don't like the idea of Scientologists and people who can keep a straight face when they lie to you about believing a giant flying pasta monster is the supreme being having the authority to sanction a union between two people, I guess if we're to maintain freedom of religion, we've gotta take the bad with the good.

Also, I'm finding your stance on this confusing. You say you want to keep religion out of this completely...then you say people should talk to their spiritual leaders if they want a marriage that concentrates on the sacred vows part. That sounds....contradictory.
 

ReiverCorrupter

New member
Jun 4, 2010
629
0
0
Gizen said:
ReiverCorrupter said:
The marriage institution in America is a product of Christianity, plain and simple. We don't have arranged marriages like in current India and most of the world for most of history. Nor do we recognize polygamous marriage. "Marriage" is not a secular institution, in virtually ever circumstance it is accompanied by religion. It doesn't matter if it spans multiple religions, that doesn't make it secular.
No, marriage in the US is not a product of Christianity, as you acknolwedge yourself that there are multiple religions who utilize it. Not to mention, it's not as if Atheists never get married. Also, you know, seperation of church and state and all that.
Umm... Those other religions haven't really even had the slightest effect on the way the government in the US recognizes marriage. Frankly, I'm fine not only with gay marriage but with polygamy as well. Hell, I'm so in to minding my own business that I'd be fine with bestiality if it weren't for the fact that animals are incapable of giving consent. But, as an American cultural institution, marriage is Judeo-Christian.

Gizen said:
No, it IS the benefits most people care about, because some of those benefits, like hospital visitation rights, are pretty damned important.
If it were just the benefits that people were concerned about then there wouldn't be a huge debate. If they were talking about including the same benefits in civil union licenses then the debate would be about whether these people deserve the benefits. But that isn't what the debate is about. The right considers it an issue of the 'sanctity of marriage', not the 'sanctity of government benefits for heterosexual couples', the left sees it as an issue about the separation of church and state. You're just plain wrong if you say it's just about the benefits.

Gay couples don't just want tax exemption, they want mainstream society to acknowledge their lifestyle as legitimate. But that is a matter of cultural values, not civil rights. Mainstream society doesn't have to recognize them if it doesn't want to, but I agree that it should give them the same rights and benefits as other couples.

Gizen said:
I agree, the government shouldn't have a say in Church doctrine. Which means if the Church agrees to perform a gay marriage ceremony (because again, not every church out there opposes it), then the government shouldn't be able to stop them. Likewise, the church shouldn't have a say in government or law, which means that marriages which take place in a court instead of a church should be fair game for homosexuals as well.
I agree, but the law isn't a matter of defining cultural institutions, it's a matter of providing a safe society with the maximum amount of liberty for its citizens. The only thing of practical import are the benefits, and those can be given to gay couples without going through the rigamaroll of trying to define marriage. Once again, if the government just changed marriage licenses to a type of civil union license, then I don't think there would be a debate. The controversy arises over the term 'marriage'.

Gizen said:
If people would mind their own business, then there'd be no reason gay to reject gay marriage.
True. And if the government didn't have marriage licenses there wouldn't be anything to reject in the first place.
 

Groundchuck

New member
Apr 16, 2011
40
0
0
Normally I am at odds with what you say, not that what you say is wrong, just seem to me that you use your videos to alienate the people that alienated you (well more so in the Escape to the Movies) but waht you said was well thought out and nicely put so... touche.
 

rddj623

"Breathe Deep, Seek Peace"
Sep 28, 2009
644
0
0
The problem I have with this one is it's a one sided look at political nostalgia. Both sides have extremists who take an unfathomably focused look at the past as a means of moving forward.

I do respect your opinion though Bob, I just wish you'd have populated both sides of the political fence with it's "yahoo's" rather then painting a one sided picture.