The Big Picture: Magneto Was Right
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I probably wouldn't join either team. just live on my own, hone my skills and help out where I can.
The most common reason boys get bullied is really quite simple; sexism.
Whereas women fought for and won the right to freedom from constrictive gender expectations, men are still very much trapped in "the man box", or the rules to being a man. (note that I'm not saying feminism has been "won", only that now a woman won't be criticized for say, wearing pants, taking a job as doctor, or anything else considered to be traditionally "male").
When you ask someone what positive attributes make a man "a man", they'll give you examples like "caring for their family, working hard, understanding the needs of others, being kind" etc. You'll realize that these are things we usually attribute to being a good person, and apply just as easily to women as men.
When you ask someone to truthfully tell you what defines "masculinity", they'll tell you something along the lines of "aggressiveness, dominance, competition, strength, power, heterosexuality" etc. Essentially, all fairly negative and violent attributes. The main thing to keep in mind is that masculinity is most importantly defined by being not femininity and not homosexuality.
By this definition, masculinity is something that must constantly be reaffirmed and put on display for others, whether it's proven by playing sports, fighting, having sex with numerous women, drinking, or pointing out and criticizing feminine qualities in others. Bullying, particularly the physical kind, is a display of dominance and therefore masculinity. The bully is reaffirming his dominance and masculinity, usually by picking a male victim who fails to meet a certain "manly" criteria.
What's most interesting about sexism against men is that it's enforced most strongly by other men. Rarely (though not "never") will a woman criticize a man for breaking gender roles, but if a man steps outside the masculine criteria, you can bet his circle of male friends will step in immediately to call him a "queer, pussy, fag or homo" (note that the most common terms men use to insult each other are based either in femaleness or homosexuality).
Anyway, the bottom line is that even though women have freed themselves from constrictive gender identities, "masculinity" is still considered highly more valuable than "femininity". That's why the little girl who likes robots and hates dresses is applauded, but the little boy who has an Easy Bake oven and doesn't like roughhousing with other boys makes his parents worry and is bullied on the playground.
People often overlook men's issues because males are given so much privilege in our society that it's assumed they have no issues to begin with. However, the way in which we define "masculinity" in our culture not only severely restricts men, but also encourages negative attitudes towards anything that is not included in the definition, like homosexuality and femininity.
Disclaimer: My message is not that being a man or being "manly" is evil. It is also not my opinion that everyone who gets bullied is inherently "unmanly". My intention is to make people think about how they define masculinity, and how they treat people who don't conform to that definition.
Whereas women fought for and won the right to freedom from constrictive gender expectations, men are still very much trapped in "the man box", or the rules to being a man. (note that I'm not saying feminism has been "won", only that now a woman won't be criticized for say, wearing pants, taking a job as doctor, or anything else considered to be traditionally "male").
When you ask someone what positive attributes make a man "a man", they'll give you examples like "caring for their family, working hard, understanding the needs of others, being kind" etc. You'll realize that these are things we usually attribute to being a good person, and apply just as easily to women as men.
When you ask someone to truthfully tell you what defines "masculinity", they'll tell you something along the lines of "aggressiveness, dominance, competition, strength, power, heterosexuality" etc. Essentially, all fairly negative and violent attributes. The main thing to keep in mind is that masculinity is most importantly defined by being not femininity and not homosexuality.
By this definition, masculinity is something that must constantly be reaffirmed and put on display for others, whether it's proven by playing sports, fighting, having sex with numerous women, drinking, or pointing out and criticizing feminine qualities in others. Bullying, particularly the physical kind, is a display of dominance and therefore masculinity. The bully is reaffirming his dominance and masculinity, usually by picking a male victim who fails to meet a certain "manly" criteria.
What's most interesting about sexism against men is that it's enforced most strongly by other men. Rarely (though not "never") will a woman criticize a man for breaking gender roles, but if a man steps outside the masculine criteria, you can bet his circle of male friends will step in immediately to call him a "queer, pussy, fag or homo" (note that the most common terms men use to insult each other are based either in femaleness or homosexuality).
Anyway, the bottom line is that even though women have freed themselves from constrictive gender identities, "masculinity" is still considered highly more valuable than "femininity". That's why the little girl who likes robots and hates dresses is applauded, but the little boy who has an Easy Bake oven and doesn't like roughhousing with other boys makes his parents worry and is bullied on the playground.
People often overlook men's issues because males are given so much privilege in our society that it's assumed they have no issues to begin with. However, the way in which we define "masculinity" in our culture not only severely restricts men, but also encourages negative attitudes towards anything that is not included in the definition, like homosexuality and femininity.
Disclaimer: My message is not that being a man or being "manly" is evil. It is also not my opinion that everyone who gets bullied is inherently "unmanly". My intention is to make people think about how they define masculinity, and how they treat people who don't conform to that definition.
370999 is right about geeks being just as prone to bullying as other groups. A lot of my college friends are big movie buffs, which is fun because it means I get to watch classics and talk all that English class type talk about movies, but it creates an environment of almost militant snobbery. My girlfriend, who is friends with most of my friends, says she's afraid to share her opinion about some movies because she knows the others would rip into her about it. I've even been called out for saying I think the first Transformers movie is not completely garbage but just mostly garbage.370999 said:
First of all: Pete White is the "assistant".
Anyway, I'd be on either the X-Men's side or no-one's side and be trying to unite the two groups.
Or I'd go from place to place, school to school, etc. and teach people why it's wrong & stupid to mistreat mutants.
Anyway, I'd be on either the X-Men's side or no-one's side and be trying to unite the two groups.
Or I'd go from place to place, school to school, etc. and teach people why it's wrong & stupid to mistreat mutants.
It is due to differences that certain people are often abused. But conflict due to differences is an age old story, people have been fighting over conflicting religions, countries and cultures for as long as history has been recorded.
But as grand as large issues like that may be, it even applies on a smaller scale.
I'm not abused physically, or even very rarely, much like you, I also managed to become one of the more physically prominent members of my class. But before I became as tall as I am now, I put up with a lot of grief simply because I was the quiet kid who would rather sit in the corner of the room drawing, than to go outside and play football with all of the "normal" kids.
We're drawn to the things that stand out, you see this all of the time in stage plays, if there is a group of 3 people to the left side of the stage and 1 person standing alone to the right, the audience's eyes will be drawn to the man standing alone rather than to the group.
With that in mind, plus a young, possibly insecure, child who feels as though he needs to assert his dominance in the room, it seems fairly simple who he will target for his special brand of hazing.
I don't think that "different" is interchangeable with "superior", but I think those in the "different" category are more likely to develop independently from the group and explore different ideas and talents.
But as grand as large issues like that may be, it even applies on a smaller scale.
I'm not abused physically, or even very rarely, much like you, I also managed to become one of the more physically prominent members of my class. But before I became as tall as I am now, I put up with a lot of grief simply because I was the quiet kid who would rather sit in the corner of the room drawing, than to go outside and play football with all of the "normal" kids.
We're drawn to the things that stand out, you see this all of the time in stage plays, if there is a group of 3 people to the left side of the stage and 1 person standing alone to the right, the audience's eyes will be drawn to the man standing alone rather than to the group.
With that in mind, plus a young, possibly insecure, child who feels as though he needs to assert his dominance in the room, it seems fairly simple who he will target for his special brand of hazing.
I don't think that "different" is interchangeable with "superior", but I think those in the "different" category are more likely to develop independently from the group and explore different ideas and talents.
I honestly don't know what side I would be on. I'd empathize with both groups to an extent but I don't know if I could agree with either method. Being a psycho a la the brotherhood is too extreme but the x-men seem to roll over and take it sometimes from those who hate them. Seems like it's either 'kill or rule them all' or 'let's all hold hands' and the latter isn't really realistic. There are always going to be people who hate people who are different, human nature, and trying to prevent or stop that just isn't plausible.
I think I'm going to go with the Deadpool side as well. Either that or team 'I don't really give a shit.' If I absolutely had to choose and I was going to be either killed, locked in a cell or something else of the sort for my powers I'd be with Magneto.
I think I'm going to go with the Deadpool side as well. Either that or team 'I don't really give a shit.' If I absolutely had to choose and I was going to be either killed, locked in a cell or something else of the sort for my powers I'd be with Magneto.
I've been picked on off and on throughout my years in school. Honestly, I don't even think about it anymore because I view it as irrelevant.
But that logic isn't really fun or what this conversation is about. As for me and the team of Mutants I would probably end up on, it's a tough call. I honestly like Magneto better than most any X-Men character. But I prefer the ideals of the X-Men over Magneto's. I'll just say this. So long as Beast and Gambit were still around on the X-Men, I'd probably join them. Otherwise, I'm all on the other side. Easily.
But that logic isn't really fun or what this conversation is about. As for me and the team of Mutants I would probably end up on, it's a tough call. I honestly like Magneto better than most any X-Men character. But I prefer the ideals of the X-Men over Magneto's. I'll just say this. So long as Beast and Gambit were still around on the X-Men, I'd probably join them. Otherwise, I'm all on the other side. Easily.
If I may, I'd like to provide my own view on why geeks and intellectuals are oscracized (I can never spell that damn word right):
We ask questions. Intellectuals are the way they are because they ask questions about why things work. They learn why they work, and then they most likely call bullshit on how the whole system works. Sometimes it could be something insignificant, but the society that abhors any inkling of chaos or disorder will actively persecute those who start asking questions. Look at Gallilao: the Catholic church didn't persecute him because he proved that the world revolved around the sun, it was because if he could call them out on something that small, he could call them out for just about anything.
Nerds and intellectuals are in the same camp: we ask questions and challenge the established order. We think, and since nature abhors a vacuum, society abhors anybody who challenges the establishment. Thus we're demonized as being social deviants or "elitist" and those who are considered of "average" intelligence are applauded as being "true" americans/citizens/insert positive lable here.
Authority and order will always be at odds with those who think and ask questions: intellectuals and geeks by extension. I was raised to think and to call out those who abuse their powers. But you know what, I'd rather live in a world where we're oschricized for being "different" and asking questions. If it wasn't difficult, it would'nt be worth it.
Besides, just because you're smart doesn't mean you're not an asshole. I can personally attest that it's all to easy to use intelligence to look down on people.
We ask questions. Intellectuals are the way they are because they ask questions about why things work. They learn why they work, and then they most likely call bullshit on how the whole system works. Sometimes it could be something insignificant, but the society that abhors any inkling of chaos or disorder will actively persecute those who start asking questions. Look at Gallilao: the Catholic church didn't persecute him because he proved that the world revolved around the sun, it was because if he could call them out on something that small, he could call them out for just about anything.
Nerds and intellectuals are in the same camp: we ask questions and challenge the established order. We think, and since nature abhors a vacuum, society abhors anybody who challenges the establishment. Thus we're demonized as being social deviants or "elitist" and those who are considered of "average" intelligence are applauded as being "true" americans/citizens/insert positive lable here.
Authority and order will always be at odds with those who think and ask questions: intellectuals and geeks by extension. I was raised to think and to call out those who abuse their powers. But you know what, I'd rather live in a world where we're oschricized for being "different" and asking questions. If it wasn't difficult, it would'nt be worth it.
Besides, just because you're smart doesn't mean you're not an asshole. I can personally attest that it's all to easy to use intelligence to look down on people.
I imagine I'd be on the F*** OFF OR I'LL BLOW UP YOUR HEAD team.
Also, it's always been my understanding that bullying was the result of an inborn desire for a stratified social structure. Just like dogs.
I can't say I've really tested the theory in any credible way, but treating bullies as though they were predators worked really well for me in high school. Someone threatened me? I threatened them back, bigger. It didn't make them like me, but it got them to f*** off.
Because a predator tends to avoid prey which has the potential to injure it, even if they are reasonably certain they'd win the fight.
Also, it's always been my understanding that bullying was the result of an inborn desire for a stratified social structure. Just like dogs.
I can't say I've really tested the theory in any credible way, but treating bullies as though they were predators worked really well for me in high school. Someone threatened me? I threatened them back, bigger. It didn't make them like me, but it got them to f*** off.
Because a predator tends to avoid prey which has the potential to injure it, even if they are reasonably certain they'd win the fight.
I too spent a good number of my younger years being picked on and abused by my peers. Hell, I had to switch Jr. High Schools because it got so bad. But even after all that, my life goals are still more in the realm of Professor X than Magneto.
You see, right now I'm studying to become a High School Counselor. First and foremost, as said counselor, my office would provide a bastion for the ostracized and abused to shelter in from the slings and arrows of their oppressors. But, and this is the more important aspect really, I would also use my position and innate grasp of human psychology to unravel the minds of the bullies too, helping them to realize what they are and the effect they have. Only by showing them the light helping them to change their ways can we hope to create a better school environment for every student.
And I know the job will never be done, and the toil will be endless and often unrewarding, but if I can get even one bully to change their ways, save even one victim from taking their own life, then all my work and time will have been justified.
You see, right now I'm studying to become a High School Counselor. First and foremost, as said counselor, my office would provide a bastion for the ostracized and abused to shelter in from the slings and arrows of their oppressors. But, and this is the more important aspect really, I would also use my position and innate grasp of human psychology to unravel the minds of the bullies too, helping them to realize what they are and the effect they have. Only by showing them the light helping them to change their ways can we hope to create a better school environment for every student.
And I know the job will never be done, and the toil will be endless and often unrewarding, but if I can get even one bully to change their ways, save even one victim from taking their own life, then all my work and time will have been justified.
You have a point, though I'd hardly say that's the only reason. And with the social and political rise of the non-masculine man I'm not sure this attitude will remain forever.MasochisticMuse said:
I never really experienced this in school. My school had a gifted program starting at kindergarten, so every one I grew up with was essantially a nerd. Middle school was the same, we were smart we hung out with each other, not becuase we didnt like any one else but these were the poeople we have known from the age of 6 and who we had classes with.
I really didnt have the problem with highschool, you meet more intullectually driven people who you make friends with and thats that. But I can see why some people have the an anti nerd/intullectual reaction. When ever me and my friends had elective classes (sculpture, band, psycology etc) we were rather surpised with the stuff other people stuggled with.
Did any one else have a gifted/honors program in there schools? I think that maybe having every one kept in the same classes may be what cuased this whole nerd bullying issue. Im not saying that Im pro intullectual segregation, but I do think being segregated let me escape this whole issue.
Edit/addition
By the way I still be with the brother hood of evil. If you start demonizing you open up a social contract for retailiation, also not very smart to insult some one who can lift a city with a mear taught.
I really didnt have the problem with highschool, you meet more intullectually driven people who you make friends with and thats that. But I can see why some people have the an anti nerd/intullectual reaction. When ever me and my friends had elective classes (sculpture, band, psycology etc) we were rather surpised with the stuff other people stuggled with.
Did any one else have a gifted/honors program in there schools? I think that maybe having every one kept in the same classes may be what cuased this whole nerd bullying issue. Im not saying that Im pro intullectual segregation, but I do think being segregated let me escape this whole issue.
Edit/addition
By the way I still be with the brother hood of evil. If you start demonizing you open up a social contract for retailiation, also not very smart to insult some one who can lift a city with a mear taught.
You're right, it's not the only reason (if it were, then there wouldn't be such a thing as female bullies), but it sure is a big one. You have only to hang out with the average group of teenage boys and count how many times the insults I mentioned before (pussy/fag/queer etc) are thrown around to see how big it is.Fangobra said:
But you're also right that it's declining. Homophobia, for example, has gone a hundred fold in the last few decades, though of course it's not gone yet. I'd say it's all for the better.
Nerds aren't better than anyone, they jsut think they are.
and good job downplaying someone else's talents an accomplishments just because you deemed then inferior to what you consider important. Yeah all Jordon does is bounce a ball. There are no other people on the field trying to stop him or steal it. It doesn't take constant exercise and practice and actual effort to be able to bounce that ball or anything. It's so unimportant and worthless that anyone can do it.
Y'know it's people like you that give nerds and geeks a bad name. You're so smug and egotistical that you think that anyone who doesn't have a encyclopedic knowledge of unix or the inner workings of the mushroom kingdom is somehow beneath you and that no one else's efforts matter
Do you know why Michal Jordon is considered a hero. It's not because of what he does it's beacuse unlike some prissy little geek who cries when things don't go his way he had the determination to prove his worth. He worked hard to accomplish his goals and to show the world that he and anyone else can achieve their goals by working at. And that's more than Bill Gates or you ever did.
Get over yourself and quit acting like an entitled little brat.
and good job downplaying someone else's talents an accomplishments just because you deemed then inferior to what you consider important. Yeah all Jordon does is bounce a ball. There are no other people on the field trying to stop him or steal it. It doesn't take constant exercise and practice and actual effort to be able to bounce that ball or anything. It's so unimportant and worthless that anyone can do it.
Y'know it's people like you that give nerds and geeks a bad name. You're so smug and egotistical that you think that anyone who doesn't have a encyclopedic knowledge of unix or the inner workings of the mushroom kingdom is somehow beneath you and that no one else's efforts matter
Do you know why Michal Jordon is considered a hero. It's not because of what he does it's beacuse unlike some prissy little geek who cries when things don't go his way he had the determination to prove his worth. He worked hard to accomplish his goals and to show the world that he and anyone else can achieve their goals by working at. And that's more than Bill Gates or you ever did.
Get over yourself and quit acting like an entitled little brat.