Callate said:
(Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, don't let this become another 700-plus post argument about the geek-girl thing...)
I wish I had your optimism.
shadowmagus said:
Bob, have you ever considered that maybe this whole "fake geek girl" thing isn't directed at the women but the concept of what they are doing? Consider the fact that you have an entire subculture of people who for decades have been the butt of jokes, torment, and ridicule so much that we they made revenge movies for us, and now that said subculture is in the mainstream, they are not allowed to have some resentment towards people who are only getting into the scene to be "mainstream" and "with the times". You have said in your videos that you would side with Magneto if given super human abilities because of how you have been treated through life, yet you're ok with people coming and and simply pretending to like things? What if it was guys? My issue with it is that you're essentially white-knighting because these are women who are being "attacked". If it was guys, no one would turn a damn head.
Setting aside the question of why it's
not guys who get consistently attacked like this, who does this geek gatekeeping actually benefit? What is the endgoal here? And why can none of the people whining about fake geek girls give me a coherent answer as to that?
Suicidejim said:
I feel somewhat irritated by the accusations that the people opposed to 'fake geek girls' are insecure, misogynistic men who resent women entering their culture, when the vast majority of complaints I have heard about such girls have come from female friends of mine.
So, Tony Harris and Ryan Perez are female friends of yours, are they? And so are all the people whining on the Escapist comment threads whenever someone dares bring the subject up?
Ickabod said:
While it's fine, in fact great if someone wants to get involved in a topic (in this case geek culture) and learn about it, that's awesome. However in any culture when you just walk in acting like you know it all, it turns off the people that actually are a part of that culture, and the person "posing" in that culture is obviously faking it.
It's ok to not be knowledgeable about something, someone wanting to learn what makes you tick is a great thing, but you can't just walk in and pretend to be an expert on the subject matter.
The other problem with fake geek girls is that they bring down the overall image of genuine geek girls because everyone starts to assume that any girl involved in geek culture is just pretending to fit into it. The stereotype is that there aren't any women interested in geek things (which is untrue), but pretty girls pretending to be into it, just discredit those who really are. Which is true for any topic, hell women interested in sports for that matter would be a great example too.
First off, I don't believe for one moment that the numbers of people doing this are high enough to make kvetching about it even remotely worth anyone's time. Secondly, if someone thinks "any girl involved in geek culture is just pretending" because of a handful of poseurs, that's a pretty good sign they just don't want women in their subculture at all.
acosn said:
We don't care if someone wants to be a member of a fandom. We do care when it's a completely disingenuous attempt that completely misrepresents the underlying conditions that makes one a "nerd" or a "geek" and tries to pass off all the shit you ever put up with as a member of said group as either having never happened, or being somehow quaint. So in a very mild sense, that faux nerd is more or less one of the four horsemen for the entire subculture.
At the core of this you have a subculture that doesn't want this popularity creep from mainstream culture that is, at it's core, meant to make money, and little else. You have women who are basically humiliating themselves, whether they know it or not, in the name of this money- I'm going to doubt they see most of the profits anyways- because nerds became a marketable demographic.
Again, assuming that this is even remotely widespread enough to be a problem (and that banning booth babes won't cure it, which is even more ridiculous since they're pretty much the only ones who ever get paid to be there), do you also have a problem with the way women are portrayed in the games themselves? Because that lines up way closer with what you're claiming that booth babes do.
emeraldrafael said:
but then there are... those people, that seem to think the "FGG"s will bring the other "FGG"s (Fake Geek Guys) from the jock sector of the world and they'll overrun the nerdism, immediately make everything about sports and macho men and everything that I guess geeks/nerds hate. and thats usually about as far as I get into the conversation before walking away muttering about sterilization being legal in certain case by case situations.
Because CoD and Gears haven't already brought the FGGuys in...
summerof2010 said:
Anyway, I'm sure there's a lot of good discussion going on here about the "geek girl" phenomenon, but I don't have time to read through it, so I'm just going to throw in my two cents. Gamers and comic/fantasy enthusiasts have traditionally had a hard time melding into society. By establishing a general culture and being able to come together via the internet, conventions, etc., they (or, we, rather) are better able to maintain a sense of self worth, dignity, and validation. The fake nerd is offensive because people like that are merely adopting the superficial trappings of the culture and declaring themselves a part of it. It's comparable to the "gated community gangster" white boys that assume the trappings of rap culture and do the same. The conflate the image with the history of struggling to find self-identity, personal insecurity, and courage to finally accept oneself that is inherent in the actual culture. While I agree that it's nothing to get too butthurt about, it's certainly offensive and irritating, not to mention laughable. But honestly I only know of the phenomenon through memes and some personal acquaintances, and I haven't heard much of the rest of the internet actually talk about it, so my impression may be more unique than most. Either way, the "fake nerd girl" isn't totally harmless.
Leaving aside the question of why so many of the people complaining about "fake geek girls" seem to have so much more of a problem with the women than with the alleged "fake geek men," and also leaving aside the question of whether this issue is widespread or pervasive enough to actually be harmful (which, spoiler alert, it is not), why shouldn't we be trying to bring them IN to our culture? Wouldn't that filter out these alleged poseurs just as well as blindly attacking every newcomer on presumption that they're faking it?
A_Libertarian said:
Bob, I have to say this is the first time I've disagreed with you strongly (re: the "Fake Geek Girl" thing).
I don't think that the reaction has anything to do with "keeping girls out" of geek culture - rather, it's more of a self-protective reaction. I think geeks/nerds of a certain generation are so used to being mocked openly (in school, on TV, movies, etc), that we are far more suspicious than we should be of girls finally realizing that our nerdy interests are fun. The push-back (if there really is any), is more against being pandered to and insulted by what seems like faked interest by the fairer sex and corporate America.
Remember in high school when you would fantasize about sweeping Ms. Beautiful off of her feet, and even your own head would betray you and remember that she wouldn't like what you consider fun? That mild subconscious shame you could feel even when you were enjoying yourself playing AD&D or a video game? Ok, maybe that's just me, but there are millions who felt the same, I know. Now the hot girl on TV has a ridiculous grin on her face and is flailing at a game pad like an epileptic chimp, and I'm insulted. And feeling that insult in the media fuels a resentment that can be misplaced on females who actually enjoy nerd-hobbies because we can't know if, deep inside, they're just another corporate drone hawking something or if we suddenly ARE as cool as everyone else.
It's not pretty in an old-school nerd's head. We took the lumps, and now maybe popular culture really is coming around at last... But there are still plenty of water-headed fakes out there, waiting to mock what they can't understand, or just trying to fit in with the crowd. More power to the ladies who actually enjoy an evening of Star Trek, but I'll not be buying them a Captain Janeway uniform until they prove they're for real.
Of course a libertarian would be complaining about other people exercising their freedom to do and like what they want...
So, tell me, if you admit that this resentment is "misplaced" on females who actually enjoy nerd hobbies, why should people not be given the benefit of the doubt until they "prove" themselves to your arbitrary satisfaction? Why should attacking false positives be more important than rescuing false negatives?
90sgamer said:
Damn Bob, you sure are going on a moral crusade about sexism lately and no straw is out of your reach. It's entirely possible that a 15 year old girl is expected to lack wisdom, maturity and self discipline because... that's what most or all 15 year old people tend to lack. But no, no, no, it's because the writers are SEXIST.
Then why aren't 15-year-old boys attacked with equal vehemency?
Beautiful End said:
No, Bob, you got it wrong.
If indeed a hot girl is truly interested in the nerd culture, I'm sure guys will welcome them with open arms.
They don't. Trust me, they don't.
maninahat said:
I'd probably prefer this kind of charmingly un-threatening, dated sexist depiction of a female superhero, over the more recently dated "rape her in the backstory, turn her into a Strong!Female!, kill her off to raise the stakes" sexist depiction of a female superhero.
Do we have to choose between the two?
Or you could all just read this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.394655.16010470] comment.
(although that made her a villain)
